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Roos + Lyon - On The Couch

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Roos can't comment as the players we drafted fitted his game style, big body footballers that will win around the contest.  That was the case you win the contested ball you win the match.  The issue we face is we win the ball at the contest but don't have the skill to keep it.  The other afl teams know this they just sit back in our defensive 50m arc and wait for the easy turnover and rebound from there.

Our players aren't unfit, they work so hard to win the ball get it forward then bang the ball comes straight back out, we don't get a breather.

The bottom line is our players are so far behind AFL standard in the fundamental skills of the game, kicking, handballing and Marking, I have never seen an AFL side even in our worse years that miss the target by hand and foot as much as we do.  We have 3 players flying for the ball with no one down both forward and backs.

Last year we scored this year we just don't have that scoreboard pressure

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7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

They aren't sitting on their hands but being as proactive as they can to ensure that next year is nothing like this year.

Yes, because an afl club with the year we've produced after making a prelim would sit on their hands..

What kind of a comment is that? Are you complimenting them for it? No [censored] they'll be trying to turn the ship around. 

You're turning into the bearded supporter that goes to training. 

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Everything will be OK, just relax. The internal review will say better assistants, better high performance staff, better injury rates and the club will inject more depth again after getting ahead of themselves. Next year will be nothing like this, frustrating - yes, but if you don't get a full preseason in these days, you can write the year off. Things can change quickly, see Cats after their trade period. If anything, we overachieved last year and people got their hopes up. We will be right up there next year, enjoy life while you can peeps.

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4 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yes, because an afl club with the year we've produced after making a prelim would sit on their hands..

What kind of a comment is that? Are you complimenting them for it? No [censored] they'll be trying to turn the ship around. 

You're turning into the bearded supporter that goes to training. 

Yes, it makes it sound like they are all doing us a favour, not as a job requirement. What bothers me about the it will all rectify itself next year mob is that our players live in a real world not cotton wool. We could have injuries in the last games or over the pre season. There could be drama over the pre season with player behaviour, mental issues or dozens of other things. Every other side will review their 2019 season and adjust their game style and lists. We can not be planning for a clean slate for the opening round next year.

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8 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Next year will be nothing like this, frustrating - yes, but if you don't get a full preseason in these days, you can write the year off. Things can change quickly, see Cats after their trade period. If anything, we overachieved last year and people got their hopes up. We will be right up there next year, enjoy life while you can peeps.

Many sides play deep into September and then front up to do it again the next year, why should the MFC be any different?

You speak of the Preseason giving us a clean sheet after this year, what happens if we have some injuries over Summer? Does that make 2020 another wasted year?

We have to change that way of thinking. Get more players ready to go. Fitness has dropped off, the club still to reactive

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Why have we fallen so far, injuries and the worst case of goal kicking yips ever, last year was not a aberration this year is. We have out played the meth coast both times, and both times bad goal kicking cost us the game. It's 2 easy things to fix, why did the  Crows fall  last year and rise up so far this year, one thing injuries. Why have we fallen so far injuries.  People just don't want to use injuries as an excuse but you know what it determines a season it has for years,, the team has improved as the season has gone on, but the injuries are still  counting up. Am sure missing from 30 to 25 meters in front of goal is not part of Goodwins game plan, the best game plan in the world can't make up for bad goal kicking.

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5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Many sides play deep into September and then front up to do it again the next year, why should the MFC be any different?

You speak of the Preseason giving us a clean sheet after this year, what happens if we have some injuries over Summer? Does that make 2020 another wasted year?

We have to change that way of thinking. Get more players ready to go. Fitness has dropped off, the club still to reactive

No it won't be wasted as the club will recognise our depth issues, currently we have nobody knocking the door down. Fitness dropped off due to surgeries and injuries.  It will all be OK

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4 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

Why have we fallen so far, injuries and the worst case of goal kicking yips ever, last year was not a aberration this year is. We have out played the meth coast both times, and both times bad goal kicking cost us the game. It's 2 easy things to fix, why did the  Crows fall  last year and rise up so far this year, one thing injuries. Why have we fallen so far injuries.  People just don't want to use injuries as an excuse but you know what it determines a season it has for years,, the team has improved as the season has gone on, but the injuries are still  counting up. Am sure missing from 30 to 25 meters in front of goal is not part of Goodwins game plan, the best game plan in the world can't make up for bad goal kicking.

Adelaide are not that good, won’t make Finals with 2 tackles in a Forward Line...

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They're not that good

Stuck it in, even to Gawn about not being able to kick goals. Imma gonna get pilloried, but those 2 Gawn misses against Geelong, extra chance in the finals, who knows...

Good stuff.

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2 minutes ago, SFebes said:

No it won't be wasted as the club will recognise our depth issues, currently we have nobody knocking the door down. Fitness dropped off due to surgeries and injuries.  It will all be OK

All Clubs get injuries and surgeries. Part of the game. If this does teach the club anything, it will be to have AFL standard depth players, that i agree with. 

This Club has a history of dropping off after a “good” year

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1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

All Clubs get injuries and surgeries. Part of the game. If this does teach the club anything, it will be to have AFL standard depth players, that i agree with. 

This Club has a history of dropping off after a “good” year

Yes but we had a huge amount of surgeries to best 22 players, it was out of control. My expectations after those surgeries were that we'd never make finals this year, it was unrealistic tbh. We need to really improve our depth, players are starting to come back now, they'll be ready to go for a full preseason. I think this year has been a huge positive, nothing wrong with a down year and it will teach everyone throughout the club, to never get ahead of themselves ever again. Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond all went through and came out the other side, so will we.

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7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

And you're still a condescending [censored], but hey, we can't all be winners.

People in glass houses. 

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4 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

People in glass houses. 

You must have magic powers to quote that, seeing as it was deleted.  I'm impressed.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Yep, definitel an aberration - that's what I think whenever I see incremental improvement year-on-year over a number of years.

Sigh.

Everyone wants to have the biggest feelings.

Surely you’re not suggesting this season was an improvement on last year’s? 

Edited by Mel Bourne

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11 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Yes but we had a huge amount of surgeries to best 22 players, it was out of control. My expectations after those surgeries were that we'd never make finals this year, it was unrealistic tbh. We need to really improve our depth, players are starting to come back now, they'll be ready to go for a full preseason. I think this year has been a huge positive, nothing wrong with a down year and it will teach everyone throughout the club, to never get ahead of themselves ever again. Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond all went through and came out the other side, so will we.

You may be right. I sincerely hope so, and now i am glad the spotlight is on us. We have to get stronger as a whole club and more clever. Yes we got injuries last summer, but i think in a few areas we went to sleep contented with a good year...

we will find out soon enough

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11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am agreeing with G Lyon basically

love to know what didn’t happen last summer... as we all paid up...

Unless I see some tangible improvements for the rest of the year I'll be keeping my hard earned in my pockets

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Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

You may be right. I sincerely hope so, and now i am glad the spotlight is on us. We have to get stronger as a whole club and more clever. Yes we got injuries last summer, but i think in a few areas we went to sleep contented with a good year...

we will find out soon enough

It seems misson was also maybe just filling up his Super fund, I'm not sure who overseas his role within the club. I'm normally critical but I'm realistic too, club got ahead of themselves no doubt. Goodwin needs better assistants for a start, I'm still sceptical about him but until he is surrounded by a good team then he won't achieve squat. We will know by round 4 next year.

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Lyon was overly emotional, which is fine as a supporter and really was just expressing our collective frustration. But I don't buy the aberration bit.

You can't fluke 2 finals wins against quality opposition. You can't fluke a percentage of greater than 130% - that is a reflection of a large body of work. An aberration is a couple of wins against good side, not a whole season.

I also think about it this way.. What makes more sense? That ordinary (not good) players dramatically outperform their abilities over a sustained period of time (season 2018) or very good players underperform their abilities over a sustained period. To my mind it is extremely difficult to perform at 140% of your abilities even once, let alone a whole season. But it is very easy to perform at 70%, for a whole host of reasons.

The reasons? I've said it before, I'm also a subscriber of the preseason, injuries and impact on confidence theory. But I'm also open-minded to the  coaching criticism. Fritsch being played out of position ALL year is just one of several examples of that.

Looking forward to 2020...

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32 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

They're not that good

Stuck it in, even to Gawn about not being able to kick goals. Imma gonna get pilloried, but those 2 Gawn misses against Geelong, extra chance in the finals, who knows...

Good stuff.

Pretty brutal, hey?

"Yeah okay you're All-Australian but you miss goals out from 20 metres directly in front."

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13 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Unless I see some tangible improvements for the rest of the year I'll be keeping my hard earned in my pockets

Good. Do that. The dees don't need fans who want to bail when they are most needed. 

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5 minutes ago, praha said:

Pretty brutal, hey?

"Yeah okay you're All-Australian but you miss goals out from 20 metres directly in front."

Max has huge talent, but he needs to work harder at kicking. He could be an all time great if he could kick 25-30 goals a year

Jim Stynes could kick a few...

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10 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Unlike most commentators, Lyon actually watches Melbourne games and sees what we see.
Garbage.
 

Garry Lyon speaks the truth, he’s a died in the wool demon supporter like all of us, what he says comes from the heart. We have been an absolute disgrace this year, to go from where we were last year to dishing out the absolute inane diarrhoea the team is spewing out this year is unforgivable. 

Goodwin has to be given the flick, this year has been the worst coaching performance since Mark Neeld, we have seen the same mistakes made week in week out for 18 weeks and nothing done about it, I’ve never been more angry with this pathetic excuse for a sporting team before, and considering some of the garbage we’ve played over the last 50 years that’s saying something. Pert needs to take Goodwin into his office and stamp his papers, the man is not a coaches [censored]. Get Ratten!! 

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3 hours ago, praha said:

aberration = break away from norm.

Average finishing position 2014-2017 = 12th

2018 finishing position = 4th

2019 finishing position = 14th-17th

Completely reasonable to call 2018 an aberration. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest it wasnt.

Since you love your averages, how about this:

2016 - 10 wins

2017 - 12 wins

2018 - 14 wins (plus two finals)

So we average 12 H&A wins over a 3-year period, which is then followed up by a record of 5-12 after 17 rounds in 2019. 2018 is far closer to the average than 2019 so far.

Further, if we include this year, our record under Goodwin (2017 onwards) is 33 wins from 64 games (51.6%). 2018 win-loss record was 16 from 25 (64%) and 2019 is 5 from 17 (29.4%). 2018 is therefore much closer to the mean than 2019.

This is only including wins, not those should-have-won games like Geelong (twice) last year, Port last year, Eagles (twice) this year and Crows this year.

At this point in time there is no reasonable basis to say 2018 was an aberration.

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27 minutes ago, dave said:

Garry Lyon speaks the truth, he’s a died in the wool demon supporter like all of us, what he says comes from the heart. We have been an absolute disgrace this year, to go from where we were last year to dishing out the absolute inane diarrhoea the team is spewing out this year is unforgivable. 

Goodwin has to be given the flick, this year has been the worst coaching performance since Mark Neeld, we have seen the same mistakes made week in week out for 18 weeks and nothing done about it, I’ve never been more angry with this pathetic excuse for a sporting team before, and considering some of the garbage we’ve played over the last 50 years that’s saying something. Pert needs to take Goodwin into his office and stamp his papers, the man is not a coaches [censored]. Get Ratten!! 

Are you Ratten's manager?

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