Dermie: Melbourne are downhill skiers

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

On 7/21/2019 at 1:40 PM, Lord Nev said:

Danny Frawley today on SEN: “It’s just amazing how they haven’t copped any scrutiny, I’ve just never seen a bigger fall from grace. They’re totally irrelevant."

 

Is this the same spud Frawley that said in mid 2017 that whoever faces the tigers in the finals will be licking their lips as they’re mentally soft club and can’t win a final ... 

[Demons11 6,404]

Dermie is the biggest [censored] in football 

[Neil Crompton 4,716]

What’s wrong with being a downhill skier? Does he realise how f’ing hard it is to ski uphill?

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

On 7/21/2019 at 1:40 PM, Lord Nev said:

Danny Frawley today on SEN: “It’s just amazing how they haven’t copped any scrutiny, I’ve just never seen a bigger fall from grace. They’re totally irrelevant."

 

I love the old ‘they’re irrelevant’ line from the media. What does that even mean? What constitutes being irrelevant? 

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

39 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

I love the old ‘they’re irrelevant’ line from the media. What does that even mean? What constitutes being irrelevant? 

Not sure exactly ... but possibly the Richmond side coached by Frawley towards the end might come close ???

[Macca 16,173]

2 minutes ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Not sure exactly ... but possibly the Richmond side coached by Frawley towards the end might come close ???

And under mutual agreement he coached out the 2004 season after being told it was his final year and they then tanked the rest of the year. 

After being 4 & 4 after 8 rounds the Tigers proceeded to then lose their last 14 games.

Sacked then tanked.  Odd combination but it happened.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 hour ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Is this the same spud Frawley that said in mid 2017 that whoever faces the tigers in the finals will be licking their lips as they’re mentally soft club and can’t win a final ... 

 

58 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

I love the old ‘they’re irrelevant’ line from the media. What does that even mean? What constitutes being irrelevant? 

 

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

And under mutual agreement he coached out the 2004 season after being told it was his final year and they then tanked the rest of the year. 

After being 4 & 4 after 8 rounds the Tigers proceeded to then lose their last 14 games.

Sacked then tanked.  Odd combination but it happened.

Is he wrong?

 

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Is he wrong?

Not necessarily but it's not like Danny Frawley has any relevance.  Another dinosaur.

Dermie's comments are a bit off the mark though ... we're not so much downhill skiers,  more like whatever the phrase is for shooting ourselves in the foot.

That's it Rangie ... 'We shoot ourselves in the foot' 

We don't beat up on the easybeats and then cave-in against good opposition (like we used to do)

We simply keep finding ways to lose through our own ineptness.  Especially with regards to our general field kicking and our shooting for goal.

Our endeavour,  energy,  effort,  hard-ball gets,  clearances & contested work isn't too bad.  But with ball in hand we butcher it.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Not necessarily but it's not like Danny Frawley has any relevance.  Another dinosaur.

Dermie's comments are a bit off the mark though ... we're not so much downhill skiers,  more like whatever the phrase is for shooting ourselves in the foot.

That's it Rangie ... 'We shoot ourselves in the foot' 

We don't beat up on the easybeats and then cave-in against good opposition (like we used to do)

We simply keep finding ways to lose through our own ineptness.  Especially with regards to our general field kicking and our shooting for goal.

Our endeavour,  energy,  effort,  hard-ball gets,  clearances & contested work isn't too bad.  But with ball in hand we butcher it.

Agree with a lot of that mate, especially that bits about skill. I think if you look at the year holistically though, we lacked a fair bit of defensive pressure, intent and two way running early on, and as much as I love them, Oliver and Brayshaw were shown up for that a fair bit in that part of the season. Oliver has since lifted his defensive work rate, but I'm not convinced Gus has turned that corner yet. He was just ok playing as a pure tagger, but it was his man that left him behind to kick the goal that set WC off in the last quarter.

Also, Rangie? Did I miss an in-joke or pop culture reference there?

[Macca 16,173]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Agree with a lot of that mate, especially that bits about skill. I think if you look at the year holistically though, we lacked a fair bit of defensive pressure, intent and two way running early on, and as much as I love them, Oliver and Brayshaw were shown up for that a fair bit in that part of the season. Oliver has since lifted his defensive work rate, but I'm not convinced Gus has turned that corner yet. He was just ok playing as a pure tagger, but it was his man that left him behind to kick the goal that set WC off in the last quarter.

As for Brayshaw,  one of many who hasn't reached the heights of last year.

I'm not one to single out individuals in a team sport ... so our forward line letting us down badly this season I see as the main problem

Looked at another way ... lets just say our forward line was functioning 'well' this season.  We'd have a lot more wins on the board and would be pushing for finals.

But easier said than done ... we lost Hogan and the other teams have done their homework on us. 

But the yips in front of goal?  That's entirely on us.  We've blown at least 4 winnable games through poor kicking for goal.  5 & 12 should read as 9 & 8.

And then this conversation is way different. On nearly all the threads.  We've shot ourselves in the foot (no pun intended)

Edited July 22, 2019 by Macca

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

33 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

 

Is he wrong?

 

The irrelevant comment is simply an unnecessary dig at the club in general probably born out from pre conceived views of the club built up from a long time ago (ala Sheedy , Malthouse , Matthews etc etc) , it’s the typical headline grabbing type comments used by ex player wannabe football commentators which is more like pub banter, and lacks any sort of real insight , analysis or reasoning as to why we have dropped off so badly and what we would have to do to right the ship.

I guess what irks me is these guys get paid $$ for spouting the same sort of footy banter crap that I don’t even need to leave my workstation to hear each Monday morning .... yeah I get it we’re [censored] this year !!! 

 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

2 minutes ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

The irrelevant comment is simply an unnecessary dig at the club in general probably born out from pre conceived views of the club built up from a long time ago (ala Sheedy , Malthouse , Matthews etc etc) , it’s the typical headline grabbing type comments used by ex player wannabe football commentators which is more like pub banter, and lacks any sort of real insight , analysis or reasoning as to why we have dropped off so badly and what we would have to do to right the ship.

I guess what irks me is these guys get paid $$ for spouting the same sort of footy banter crap that I don’t even need to leave my workstation to hear each Monday morning .... yeah I get it we’re [censored] this year !!!

But is he wrong? That was the question.

We've gone from prelim to second last, and the only people I've heard talk about us today in the media are 2 former Demons.

To me, that seems a lot like we're irrelevant.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

9 minutes ago, Macca said:

As for Brayshaw,  one of many who hasn't reached the heights of last year.

I'm not one to single out individuals in a team sport ... so our forward line letting us down badly this season I see as the main problem

Looked at another way ... lets just say our forward line was functioning 'well' this season.  We'd have a lot more wins on the board and would be pushing for finals.

But easier said than done ... we lost Hogan and the other teams have done their homework on us. 

But the yips in front of goal?  That's entirely on us.  We've blown at least 4 winnable games through poor kicking for goal.  5 & 11 should read as 9 & 7. 

And then this conversation is way different. On nearly all the threads.  We've shot ourselves in the foot (no pun intended)

You could play 'what if' all day though, doesn't get you anywhere, and I believe it's more complicated than just forwards kicking straight, so we differ a little in our take on the season I guess.

[picket fence 15,097]

I have posted elsewhere but I reckon Simon Goodwin is totally under the pump both this year and the first 7 or 8 games next year!

If we play this way again, and without major changes to game plan and structure, much less personel. Baring some very mitigating circumstances then, I feel , His days will be numbered! And if so stand by for massive massive personel changes both in playing group and football dept!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,578]

42 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Agree with a lot of that mate, especially that bits about skill. I think if you look at the year holistically though, we lacked a fair bit of defensive pressure, intent and two way running early on, and as much as I love them, Oliver and Brayshaw were shown up for that a fair bit in that part of the season. Oliver has since lifted his defensive work rate, but I'm not convinced Gus has turned that corner yet. He was just ok playing as a pure tagger, but it was his man that left him behind to kick the goal that set WC off in the last quarter.

Also, Rangie? Did I miss an in-joke or pop culture reference there?

The defensive running this is a bit catch 22.  T Mac made the call a few weeks ago that the loosing team often does a lot more defensive running than the winner.  I can well understand that and I think part of the problem this season is that we have lost so much confidence and cohesion with our ball movement that it hasn't been enough to make the opposition two way run after us.

I saw some of the best ball movement from us through the gut's of the ground that I have in a long time on Sunday afternoon, with Gus and Harmes some of the big contributors, so hopefully we might slowly be starting to turn that corner.

But part of me also agrees that perhaps the two way running isn't a strength of our team right now.  Perhaps when we are so dominant at winning the clearances, the two way running doesn't get shown up so much, but the times our opposition gets on top of us in that regards is when we get in the most trouble and we need to be able to better mitigate the damage in those situations - 2nd half against the Lions was case in point to me.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

But is he wrong? That was the question.

We've gone from prelim to second last, and the only people I've heard talk about us today in the media are 2 former Demons.

To me, that seems a lot like we're irrelevant.

The heat hasn’t really come on goodwin and co until only the last few weeks and even then the media have given him somewhat of a free pass for this year , given the fact that he ain’t going to be sacked this year off back of a prelim, so there is no blood in the water. Also we are not getting thrashed when we lose and appear to be our own worst enemies with injuries and form etc . 

You’re right in that we are effectively irrelevant to 2019 given we’re not in the mix for finals, there is no sacking possible and we are not loosing by 15 goals like a typical bottom 2 side. This season is just a write off 

[Macca 16,173]

13 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

You could play 'what if' all day though, doesn't get you anywhere, and I believe it's more complicated than just forwards kicking straight, so we differ a little in our take on the season I guess.

Our forwards also won't adhere to the fundamentals either although with a change of personnel,  we were much better yesterday

Playing in front,  making space,  defensive pressure,  multiple leads and leading patterns,  marking ability,  the forwards playing as a team and other factors have been sadly lacking.  And we can't kick straight for goal.

It is the worst performed forward line I have seen at the club (all things considered) and I'd be surprised if we don't see a line up that looks more like this next season ...

HF :  Petracca     KPF (Rec)   Melksham

F :     Fritsch         T.Mac          Small Fwd (Rec)

Weideman as a back up 2nd or 3rd forward whilst Hannan,  Lockhart,  Spargo & Garlett have it all in front of them.  That's if all 4 in fact remain on the list. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Macca

[Lord Nev 13,511]

Just now, Delusional demon 82 said:

The heat hasn’t really come on goodwin and co until only the last few weeks and even then the media have given him somewhat of a free pass for this year , given the fact that he ain’t going to be sacked this year off back of a prelim, so there is no blood in the water. Also we are not getting thrashed when we lose and appear to be our own worst enemies with injuries and form etc . 

You’re right in that we are effectively irrelevant to 2019 given we’re not in the mix for finals, there is no sacking possible and we are not loosing by 15 goals like a typical bottom 2 side. This season is just a write off 

Yeah, pretty hard to argue with that mate, really well put.

[monoccular 16,042]

On 7/18/2019 at 8:22 PM, Ethan Tremblay said:

I wish we were downhill skiers. 

As we are now so close to the bottom, does that mean we won't even have the joy of skiing soon?

Cross country skiing maybe?

On 7/18/2019 at 8:30 PM, rjay said:

Yep...and we're not even flat track bullies.

When did we last bully anyone - OK, Hawks and Cats last finals, but then .... ???

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Dermie is the biggest [censored] in football 

I agree, but he is right on this one.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

And under mutual agreement he coached out the 2004 season after being told it was his final year and they then tanked the rest of the year. 

After being 4 & 4 after 8 rounds the Tigers proceeded to then lose their last 14 games.

Sacked then tanked.  Odd combination but it happened.

Of course, and remind me of how they got dragged through the media and were sanctioned by the AFL, like we were?

They, and the prototypical tankers from up Sydney Road, between Parkville and Brunswick??

[Macca 16,173]

4 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Of course, and remind me of how they got dragged through the media and were sanctioned by the AFL, like we were?

They, and the prototypical tankers from up Sydney Road, between Parkville and Brunswick??

These things are selective ... schoolyard type rules.  It's who you know and who's on the nose or on the outer.

You'll never see fairness or consistency.  Gain any advantage you can get is the only way to win the fight. 

[monoccular 16,042]

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

................

Weideman as a back up 2nd or 3rd forward whilst Hannan,  Lockhart,  Spargo & Garlett have it all in front of them.  That's if all 4 in fact remain on the list. 

I still hold high hopes for Weed as, for now, second KPP forward, though in the remainder of this dead season would a stint at CHB help his development?

Hannan is better than he has shown this year.  Injury has hit him hard and he is starting way behind the line.

Lockart ...  too soon to be sure.

Spargo .... not enough pace for a midget

Garlett .... retire while we still have some good memories, please

[Lord Nev 13,511]

7 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

The defensive running this is a bit catch 22.  T Mac made the call a few weeks ago that the loosing team often does a lot more defensive running than the winner.  I can well understand that and I think part of the problem this season is that we have lost so much confidence and cohesion with our ball movement that it hasn't been enough to make the opposition two way run after us.

I saw some of the best ball movement from us through the gut's of the ground that I have in a long time on Sunday afternoon, with Gus and Harmes some of the big contributors, so hopefully we might slowly be starting to turn that corner.

But part of me also agrees that perhaps the two way running isn't a strength of our team right now.  Perhaps when we are so dominant at winning the clearances, the two way running doesn't get shown up so much, but the times our opposition gets on top of us in that regards is when we get in the most trouble and we need to be able to better mitigate the damage in those situations - 2nd half against the Lions was case in point to me.

Yeah but the whole 'losing team' thing is symptomatic. Generally if the other team has the ball a lot more then you're going to be losing.

Agree about the cohesion 100%. I would even use the word 'trust'. With an impacted preseason and massively inconsistent lineups (we've used more players than any other team) we were always going to struggle to innately understand what each other was going to do. Then it's all magnified by the 'chaos ball' approach we've had most of the year.

Also agree our ball movement was better in patches, but not 100% sure I'd be praising Harmes and Brayshaw for that the most. Gus only had 15 touches, and 8 of them were handballs. Thought Salem, Jones and May did well with the ball usage, even ANB had a good patch for a quarter or so where he set up a few goals with good decisions.

Hard to know what has been behind the defensive intent issues. Do you reckon the limited use of runners has impacted us as much as the 666 maybe? None of our leadership group are very 'directional', they're all more 'spiritual leader' types.

[Macca 16,173]

Just now, monoccular said:

I still hold high hopes for Weed as, for now, second KPP forward, though in the remainder of this dead season would a stint at CHB help his development?

Hannan is better than he has shown this year.  Injury has hit him hard and he is starting way behind the line.

Lockart ...  too soon to be sure.

Spargo .... not enough pace for a midget

Garlett .... retire while we still have some good memories, please

Hannan jogs around too much ... no urgency.  Lockhart gets another year. 

Weideman has been a major disappointment whilst T-Mac hasn't been much better. 

Agree on Spargo & Garlett.  Hunt is too hot and cold and doesn't play in front. Could be way better if he puts his mind to it.

But out of the 6 possies I've only got 4 in from the present list (Petracca,  Melksham,  T-Mac & Fritsch)

No room for he's ok or he's alright types.  I want a gun forward line. 

[Sorry kids 635]

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

Hannan jogs around too much ... no urgency.  Lockhart gets another year. 

Weideman has been a major disappointment whilst T-Mac hasn't been much better. 

Agree on Spargo & Garlett.  Hunt is too hot and cold and doesn't play in front. Could be way better if he puts his mind to it.

But out of the 6 possies I've only got 4 in from the present list (Petracca,  Melksham,  T-Mac & Fritsch)

No room for he's ok or he's alright types.  I want a gun forward line. 

Agree on the four but Hunt is a keep, so too Lockhart. Not convinced on Hannan.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,794]

I'll give you the hot tip, if Milkshake was playing in the last 2 months we would have another 4 wins on the board.

Would have beaten Adel, WB, WCE in Perth and WCE in Darwin. 

Our set shot kicking for goal is an absolute disgrace for an AFL side. We have kicked ourselves out of so many games this year and it has come back to bite us in the last qtr when we have spent our petrol tickets.