POSTGAME: Rd17 vs Bulldogs

[Demon3 2,541]

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

Did you notice the handball that Gus received from Clarry before he got run down in the tackle?  It was a looping, slow handball that Gus had to check his pace to receive, opening the way to be caught by Dunkley.  If Clarry had put a bullet handball and Gus could run onto it, there would have been no tackle, and probably a goal.  It is a million moments like these that are costing us in every game.  Like the bomb kicks into forward 50, like the way we get sucked en masse into contests and the opposition run around the outside, those over-the-head-to-no one handballs, the giraffe kicks not to advantage.....We are putting in loads of effort, but it must be so disheartening when stupid errors make it meaningless.

Oliver should have kicked the goal. Brayshaw shouldnt have called for it. It was real smart alec stuff, those 2 think sharing the ball is fun,, like the Cats used to do, except they would win games, and premierships .Oliver is a very good player, but he wont be a great player unless he adds goal kicking to his arsenal.

[Nasher 33,047]

16 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Or leave him right there and allow him to grow into the shared role . It might take a little while to gel. We're not robbing anyone at the moment...except supporters...robbing them blind.

Here we can have real time experience for the dynamic duo.. we're not going to be doing much in september are we.

Yep, I could be swayed to this direction - it’s a development year after all. The only concern I would have is that he’s not doing it in a “first ruck” situation by playing in the firsts, but that might not matter in the context of the long term goal.

[Demon3 2,541]

One more.. i think the Lever acquisition may go down as a move that really stifled our future. Hindsight is wonderful, but he cost us alot.. a lot.. and his Knee injury is bad luck, but i reckon he played 2 maybe 3 ok to good games for us before he did his knee. I think he is poor with ball in hand, often gets in the way of other players, has no obvious pace and is not good one on one. Basically he is Marty Hore, but Hore is quicker. Lever may have a good footy brain, but i dont think Stephen Hawking could help our players sometime. Waiving your hands around and acting like a general cost us 2 first round selections.

 

[ArtificialWisdom 3,844]

2 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Oliver should have kicked the goal. Brayshaw shouldnt have called for it. It was real smart alec stuff, those 2 think sharing the ball is fun,, like the Cats used to do, except they would win games, and premierships .Oliver is a very good player, but he wont be a great player unless he adds goal kicking to his arsenal.

With the team struggling Oliver's flaws have been exposed. His insistence to handball at all costs has gone from a quirky habit to a flat out detriment to the team. His contested stuff is always going to be great but unless this changes he is never going to be truly elite. He has all the ability to be the superstar but he's holding himself back

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

One more.. i think the Lever acquisition may go down as a move that really stifled our future. Hindsight is wonderful, but he cost us alot.. a lot.. and his Knee injury is bad luck, but i reckon he played 2 maybe 3 ok to good games for us before he did his knee. I think he is poor with ball in hand, often gets in the way of other players, has no obvious pace and is not good one on one. Basically he is Marty Hore, but Hore is quicker. Lever may have a good footy brain, but i dont think Stephen Hawking could help our players sometime. Waiving your hands around and acting like a general cost us 2 first round selections.

He's also 23, so I reckon hold off for now.

[Demon3 2,541]

Just now, Lord Nev said:

He's also 23, so I reckon hold off for now.

Yep fair point, he is young and i acknowledged teh Knee injury was bad luck. But in my eyes, and a lot of peoples that i know, he would want to get a hell of a lot better for us. I hope does, because those 2 first round picks we gave up for him could be very handy for us right now.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

3 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Yep fair point, he is young and i acknowledged teh Knee injury was bad luck. But in my eyes, and a lot of peoples that i know, he would want to get a hell of a lot better for us. I hope does, because those 2 first round picks we gave up for him could be very handy for us right now.

Yeah, but let's remember we also ended up with Petty and Hore (if I've worked that out right) in that trade.

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

For what?

Petulance?

Sulks?

He's clearly not that injured....

then why isnt he playing in the guts...where he's always been..and played best ?

I reckon LH and GOOT are onto the reason...he's carrying more than a niggle.. Ive had a bad back most my life now ( since 17 ).. Ive played a lot of sport. It doesnt stop you..but you can have periods where it severely limits you and you do second guess everything. That combined with a possible flare up of  OP....well would explain much...except why he's even out there.  That's my take.

[Demon3 2,541]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Yeah, but let's remember we also ended up with Petty and Hore (if I've worked that out right) in that trade.

To be honest, I am  not sure what we got out of it, more about what we gave up, but Petty looks to be getting a bit better each week and Hore, as i said, is a pretty handy and has a lot of Lever like qualities. 

[Damo 2,969]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Food for thought... all discussion of players as such aside. Imagine if we went into games with a coherent sensibility about forward entries and structures.. we plainly and obviously have neither currently

We could have won yesterday...all it needed was to stop bombing away and actually enter the 5o intelligently. How many times was that kick to a contest 15-20(out)  just so unnecessary.

I think I have an idea though why this happens...we have so many who cant kick a bloody football straight more than 40m !!

One big issue is the kicking in general. I was at a preview of the Adam Goodes doco yesterday and watched the replay. It was obvious our kicks almost always are higher and slower than the doggies. Every one landed in a contest. Doggies are better in the air and we contest well but just don’t mark as well as most other teams.

And a long standing issue is Melbourne ability to over praise our players. I know that sounds silly on demonland but it is obvious in preseason. Petracca hi five after a mark and before a goal is missed shows again his unique ability to be the only one in the stadium shocked at his miss. Overall he is getting better before the end of the year as he is not feared by opposition as much now.

I believe viney Oscar harmes and Brayshaw are going ok but they lift a very heavy load every week. It must be frustrating that so many others on the ground are incapable of helping.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I stopped watching the last few minutes but what is this Fritsch miss I keep hearing about?

By the way, Fritsch was is and always will best as a forward option.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

19 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I stopped watching the last few minutes but what is this Fritsch miss I keep hearing about?

By the way, Fritsch was is and always will best as a forward option.

I agree, Clint.  He was terrific in the second half.  If Weideman doesn't get up for next week, I'd leave him there.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

21 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I stopped watching the last few minutes but what is this Fritsch miss I keep hearing about?

By the way, Fritsch was is and always will best as a forward option.

Got a free about 15 out, tight-ish angle. Reckon about 4 minutes to go, scores tight (think we were 7 or 8 points down at that stage), played on ridiculously quickly and missed what should have been an easy goal. Horrible mistake amongst an otherwise good game from him.

[DemonOX 8,529]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Got a free about 15 out, tight-ish angle. Reckon about 4 minutes to go, scores tight (think we were 7 or 8 points down at that stage), played on ridiculously quickly and missed what should have been an easy goal. Horrible mistake amongst an otherwise good game from him.

And on top of that the dogs went down the other end and scored a goal. Massive 2 goal turnaround at a critical time of the game.  

Let’s hope upon review if he had his time over he would take the set shot. 

[At the break of Gawn 3,474]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I've been a supporter but ANB is useless at the moment. Terrible disposal, not a quick thinker and constantly putting teammates under pressure. Depth player at best at the moment.

I lost it when he was running straight at goal 30m out and did a checkside and missed. Seriously, if you can’t hit a 30m drop punt running in, you just can’t be playing AFL (or probably VFL for that matter).

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 minute ago, DemonOX said:

And on top of that the dogs went down the other end and scored a goal. Massive 2 goal turnaround at a critical time of the game.  

Let’s hope upon review if he had his time over he would take the set shot. 

Nah don't think they did mate, just a behind. Still a critical error though.

[DemonOX 8,529]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Nah don't think they did mate, just a behind. Still a critical error though.

Ah ok thought it was a goal. Either way hopefully he settles himself and takes the set shot next time  

All season our skills and decision making have been horrendous. This needs to be fixed otherwise we can just cut and paste our comments from this season to next. 

[ManDee 7,073]

1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

To be honest, I am  not sure what we got out of it, more about what we gave up, but Petty looks to be getting a bit better each week and Hore, as i said, is a pretty handy and has a lot of Lever like qualities. 

So what we gave up ended up being Adelaide's picks, Darcy Fogarty and Ned McHenry. Rather have Lever.

[DeeZone 7,660]

I agree with a lot of what has been mentioned on here But I believe that we lost it at the Selection Table, if we had put in Baker, Corey Wagner, JKH and Maynard in Lieu of Hannam, Neville, Dunkley and ANB it could have been a much different result....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Demon3 2,541]

17 minutes ago, ManDee said:

So what we gave up ended up being Adelaide's picks, Darcy Fogarty and Ned McHenry. Rather have Lever.

Thats what they selected, we could have selected others.. anyway, its kind of missing the point, i just think Lever has a long way to go to convince me that it was the right decision. i hope he does convince me.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,568]

6 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

He has one string to his bow (fwd defence ie tackles and 1%) and has been poor in those areas.  His work is having little impact: last year his tackles caused turnovers, this year less so.

His form is concerning as he was not in the 'preseason injury' group and his role does not require particular skills.  He is competing with players like Dunkley, Sparrow, Lockhart, Dunkley, Fritsch for a spot and I can't see ANB being ahead of all of them.  Next year he is likely to be a depth player at best.

For these reasons if/when we trade him it will be 'at the bottom of the market'.

We have/will offer him a contract but it he may get better $/years/senior games elsewhere and we will trade him and like Kent it may well be in the 60's.  Or like Tyson a player who fits our needs better.

Lucifer, think your assessment of ANB's potential contribution to the team is a bit narrow really.  When he was in form over 2017 & 2018, ANB did provide some good connection through the middle of the ground and his ability to gut run and get out the back into our forward line was often a good additional avenue to goal for us.  Out of all the players effected by the 6-6-6 rule change I think ANB has been effected probably most as he was often used very effectively as one of those 'spitters' running through off the back of the centre square at centre clearances.  I don't see any present indications that the 6-6-6 rule will removed any time soon, so he simply must adjust and it's fair to say that he hasn't thus far, but neither has most of the team.

On his present form, I don't think ANB would have as much currency as Tyson or Kent had at the time they were traded and I don't sense that he is the sort of player to go seeking greener pastures, particularly since he has always been given a pretty reasonable opportunities at the MFC.  I'd reluctantly be looking to move on the likes of Stretch, probably Maynard and possibly JKH long before I started looking at ANB.

With a pick in the 60s, all we are most likely to get is another 18yo that might or might not be a decient player in 3 or 4 years time, when our priority should be about mature players that can deliver and/or provide depth for the club now.

[loges 6,002]

7 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

It's tough at the moment.  If we're being honest we are an average side that is playing some pretty average footy.  After last season it can be a bitter pill to swallow.

However, this is not 2013.  This is not a list where we are going 'who are the good players and how the hell are we going to improve?'  This is a list that has been smashed from pillar to post and we've never really gotten out of the starting gate.

Look at the side we had in yesterday.  We are still missing some quality players - Tom Mac, Jake Melksham, Vanders and Marty Hore come to mind.  We have players who had off season surgery and it took them weeks to get going.  We still have players in the side who have had long stints on the sidelines and are clearly down on fitness and form (Lever, Jetta, Hannan etc.).  We are also playing blokes who are showing something but don't have the consistency to perform week in, week out (Petty, Lockhart, Dunkley, Preuss).  Then, on top of that, we are forced to play blokes who are either on their last legs (Jones, Lewis) or who shouldn't have any business being in the side to begin with (ANB).

Add it all up and you get the season we're having.  To me it's an anomaly - we have been building well since 2015.  It's not as if we stunk it up and then pulled 2018 out of the bag.  It's been quite the opposite.  There are clear reasons why this season has been a failure, but this time we have the personnel to turn it around quickly.  We aren't relying on a Matt Jones or Dean Terlich to finish Top 5 in our B&F.  

Not only that, but the holes in our side are clear - we could use more support for Tom Mac up forward, although the hope is that Weideman kicks on in 2020, and we know that we need some small forwards to support that.  We could also use a little more pace in midfield.  But these are fixable issues if we make the right moves.  We don't have 5 or 6 half decent players and the rest are terrible.  That couldn't be further from the truth.

Again, this season has been tough to watch, but it's not the end of the world.  Far from it.  We can turn things around very quickly IF we do the right things over pre-season, such as who we draft and trade in to the club, and hopefully we don't have another awful run with injuries.  I have no doubt that we'll bounce back in 2020.

It's great to read a rational analysis of where we're at.

[Redleg 37,474]

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I agree, Clint.  He was terrific in the second half.  If Weideman doesn't get up for next week, I'd leave him there.

Where he ( Fritter)  should have been all year and the second half of last season as well. He is a forward.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,568]

I really do think the role of our injuries is being under played in the assessments of our performance on Sunday against the Dogs.  I was just reflecting this morning how rotten our luck with injuries has been this year.  Hardly a week goes by where we have not had to have made forced changes due to players going out with injuries.  No sooner do we get players back than we get lumped with another handful of players we loose with realitively unavoidable injuries. 

Just take the last fortnight for example Hore (collar bone), T Mac (new knee injury), Weid (something or another) - I'm not sure that any of these injuries could have been avoided in the standard rough and tumble of the AFL, yet we just seem to keep copping more than our fair share them. 

I'd imagine that if T Mac had been in our forward line in the sort of form he had finally got him self back into, Hore had have played in place of an under done Jetta and Weid had played in place of either a raw Dunckley or scratchy Hannan, it probably would have been enough for us to have beaten the dogs and we would all have a somewhat/slightly different outlook on where the team is presently at.

That all said, adding those aforementioned players back into the side would have unlikely changed the way we moved the ball through the middle of the ground, which for the most part I found to be pretty uninspiring and lacking in confidence and dominance.  It also needs to be taken into consideration that the Dogs were a rotation out for most of the game after loosing McLean early on.

All in all, I'm not completely dispondant about what our present performances mean for our potential in 2020, because our year has and continues to be wrecked by injury, but I am finding it hard to find many positives from the procession of mediocre performances that is all we seem destined to produce for the rest of the season.  I guess now I'm just hoping to see some more games and development in the likes of Petty, Press, Weid, Hore, Dunkley, the settling of our back six and that we can have one hell of a reset in the offseason.  It's not exactly that I don't think we shouldn't be playing to win, but more of an acceptance for now that many more wins not might be that practically achievable between now and the end of the season with the injury and form backlog we have built for ourselves and the likelihood of being able to peg much of that back between now and the end of the season.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Nasher 33,047]

8 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

Did you notice the handball that Gus received from Clarry before he got run down in the tackle?  It was a looping, slow handball that Gus had to check his pace to receive, opening the way to be caught by Dunkley.  If Clarry had put a bullet handball and Gus could run onto it, there would have been no tackle, and probably a goal.  It is a million moments like these that are costing us in every game.  Like the bomb kicks into forward 50, like the way we get sucked en masse into contests and the opposition run around the outside, those over-the-head-to-no one handballs, the giraffe kicks not to advantage.....We are putting in loads of effort, but it must be so disheartening when stupid errors make it meaningless.

I actually thought the biggest mistake in that chain was that the handball existed in the first place. Oliver should have taken the first option, which was to kick the Sherrin in to the second tier in between the tall sticks. Who handballs from 40 when open and charging towards the goals?