POSTGAME: Rd16 vs Carlton

[Nasher 33,047]

10 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I am fully capable of separation Nasher. I am also fully capable of my own assessments and have the prerogative to my own reactions.

Our WIN was more like NOT-LOSING...We did everything ..again to steal a loss from Victory...somehow we stuffed that up and still won.  A Another minute..or a few less and we were indeed losers. By all means take whatever joy you wish to take from the occasion.

All a bit too much like finding a Fiver in your pocket when your broke and spend it on a beer. It tastes good...but strangely you're still broke. All youve really managed to achieve is numbing reality for a brief moment. Reality is reality..I'm a realist.

In case no one has really noticed we've gone through another rebuild ( squandered ) ...had all the hype of looking like we're getting somewhere...only to fall over...and over.  The Boards are now back to discussing  priority picks and looking to our draftees with that demented laughter that this IS the panacea..In other words we're right back where we've been for god knows how long...one of the irrelevant teams at the bottom of the ladder.

Rose coloured glasses are fine but when you add a lot of our dark blue to them the view gets very overcast.

See, you say you can separate out long-term disappointment from enjoying the moment, then go on to list all the long-term disappointments that sour short term enjoyment for you.

And your last two paragraphs are just a laugh really. You seem to think I’m unaware that this hasn’t been a good year. I’m aware. I can’t wait for it to be over. I look to each coming game with a trepidation that was pleasantly absent last year. I can only bloody hope we will be able to turn it around.

Still enjoyed Sunday’s game.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Just now, Nasher said:

See, you say you can separate out long-term disappointment from enjoying the moment, then go on to list all the long-term disappointments that sour short term enjoyment for you.

And your last two paragraphs are just a laugh really. You seem to think I’m unaware that this hasn’t been a good year. I’m aware. I can’t wait for it to be over. I look to each coming game with a trepidation that was pleasantly absent last year. 

Still enjoyed Saturday’s game.

Here...We won

and here..All the rest

It's entirely possibly to understand both. You almost get it by noting that one event(s) can impact another. That doesn't mean I cant discern they might be different reactions. Where you seem to be missing the point ( mine at least ) is how YOU choose to react is YOURS to do.. If another does it another way  your method does not invalidate another's.

Your reaction to the win is yours. Again, I see it as just not-losing.For me it was more about a sigh of relief, we got away with that one. Rapture ??  none. That game should have been over at 1/2 time..well and truly. But we are inept, led by the inept. Our game plan is inept, our understanding of how the game actually works currently seems bereft of grasp.

When I see something really worth cheering about...i will. Til then

[binman 37,750]

2 minutes ago, Nasher said:

See, you say you can separate out long-term disappointment from enjoying the moment, then go on to list all the long-term disappointments that sour short term enjoyment for you.

And your last two paragraphs are just a laugh really. You seem to think I’m unaware that this hasn’t been a good year. I’m aware. I can’t wait for it to be over. I look to each coming game with a trepidation that was pleasantly absent last year. 

Still enjoyed Saturday’s game.

I enjoyed Saturdays  game and will enjoy the rest of the season.

Lots to play for, not least of which is senior AFL experience for players like Lockhart, dunkley and petty.

Easy to forget that the first two were not even in the AFL system in February. Dunkley was playing under 18s this year. No better marker of the issues we have experienced with injury.

I actually think we are a very good chance of winning this week, which is exciting. As old see noted, without final in the picture  each game can be enjoyed in isolation. And I plan to do do so.

[samcantstandya 913]

14 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I am fully capable of separation Nasher. I am also fully capable of my own assessments and have the prerogative to my own reactions.

Our WIN was more like NOT-LOSING...We did everything ..again to steal a loss from Victory...somehow we stuffed that up and still won.  A Another minute..or a few less and we were indeed losers. By all means take whatever joy you wish to take from the occasion.

All a bit too much like finding a Fiver in your pocket when your broke and spend it on a beer. It tastes good...but strangely you're still broke. All youve really managed to achieve is numbing reality for a brief moment. Reality is reality..I'm a realist.

In case no one has really noticed we've gone through another rebuild ( squandered ) ...had all the hype of looking like we're getting somewhere...only to fall over...and over.  The Boards are now back to discussing  priority picks and looking to our draftees with that demented laughter that this IS the panacea..In other words we're right back where we've been for god knows how long...one of the irrelevant teams at the bottom of the ladder.

Rose coloured glasses are fine but when you add a lot of our dark blue to them the view gets very overcast.

The way I c it. 2019 was always going 2b a bust. More than a dozen preseason surgeries coupled with a late start due 2 finals. No prelim review & the new 666 rule. How we draft & recruit along with a change in game plan will determine our 2020. I think we will be a real threat next year if not then a rethink and a rebuild.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

21 hours ago, Nasher said:

Gambling companies aren’t going to let mere technicalities like mathematic impossibility stop them from taking money from suckers.

No they cant list if its not possible. If we are listed on their site as an outsider to win the flag, then there must still be a mathematical possibility. StKilda were even longer odds. All im pointing out is, that there must still be some chance of playing finals but all results would have to go our way (including us smashing a few games which likely aint gonna happen).

[Nasher 33,047]

44 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

No they cant list if its not possible. If we are listed on their site as an outsider to win the flag, then there must still be a mathematical possibility. StKilda were even longer odds. All im pointing out is, that there must still be some chance of playing finals but all results would have to go our way (including us smashing a few games which likely aint gonna happen).

Fair enough, I’m not across the ins and outs of what they’re allowed to offer odds on. Was just going on the assumption that if they had the opportunity to do something unscrupulous they probably would.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

On 7/9/2019 at 10:52 AM, Dee Zephyr said:

Yeah, I think Kreuzer initiated the confusion by having his back towards their goal and looking to give it off. Not on a knock on our fella, just thought the sequence was funny, especially the slow mo, it looked like 2 BFGs trying to dance the Nutbush.

 

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

On 7/9/2019 at 1:25 PM, titan_uranus said:

Also, on the topic of over-celebrating, just have a think about how the players would have felt in that moment when the siren went.

They were spent. They had been working as hard as they could, with almost no rest, to try to hold on and prevent a loss which would have opened up so much criticism (given how much they're copping despite winning, imagine what they would have been thinking about the ramifications of a loss).

So the siren goes and their natural reaction is to be happy. 

FFS. In the heat of the moment, sometimes humans exhibit emotions. In this instance it was 100% justifiable.

Just watched the last qtr again. 

I'm struggling to find one of our players who over-celebrated? 

What a complete non story !

[Cards13 9,117]

18 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Just watched the last qtr again. 

I'm struggling to find one of our players who over-celebrated? 

What a complete non story !

And good to see they weren’t celebrating during the last HB!

[binman 37,750]

7 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Just watched the last qtr again. 

I'm struggling to find one of our players who over-celebrated? 

What a complete non story !

The big 'evidence' for them was Brayshaw saying it was a 'defining' win. And they didn't give all his comments, which provides important context in so far as he said the players were exhausted and he was as exhausted as he had ever been in a game of footy.

They were desperate to win, remained composed and overcame their exhaustion. So what if he used the term defining win. What peanuts.

And again I loved that Judd suggested to carp or Damo they didn't understand the impact of being down to one rotation on players.

I just watched the second and third quarters again. Our field kicking and kicks inside 50 in those quarters were the best they had been all season. Most of our 7 goals in the 3rd (and tmacs poster from 30 out dead in front) were a direct result of excellent kicks to free or leading players or kicks to advantage. The 'connection' was first class. They stayed in touch not because of dosposal errors by us but they got a some goals we might have stopped (silvagni's two on petty come to mind)

 

[Vagg 2,422]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

 

This is gold!  Big Preussy explaining in his own style how he did what he did to slow the game down as "good team play"!  LOL

[Youngwilliam 380]

We were 3 short on the bench. With a game that has so many rotations I was not suprised Carlton came back. They did the same to Freo the previous week. Fortunantly we were able to muster up what was required in the end. A bit of luck doesn't hurt either.

I took a lad from Spain to see his first game ever. He knew nothing about the game. Going home he didn't want to stop talking about what he just witnessed. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Youngwilliam

[Demon Dynasty 15,193]

On 7/9/2019 at 9:09 AM, binman said:

Hit the nail on the head rusty. Leaving aside the game style, in very simple terms we get the ball inside 50 enough times. 3rd i'n the league I think. That number is a touch inflated because it often goes in, straight out and back into a crowded 50.

But still our forward line has struggled woefully - small, medium and bigs. Part of that is the much referenced connection issues, which is mainly about rubbish kicks but also issues such as spacing and leading patterns.

The above partly shows how critical some players are to systems. I read here that remarkably melk is still right up there for goal assists, despite not playing for, what, 8 weeks? He is critical in terms of that last kick inside 50. Hannan was important in this regard last year and hasn't got back anywhere near his best this year, after coming back from injury

On the fatigue issue I would contend our poor fitness is as a result of our crap preseason not our game style. Sure the chaos, crash and bash style is physically taxing (and might be a factor in that spate of preseason surgeries) but the chip and spread style requires players to run a lot of ks in a game to spread and provide multiple options and leads. I suspect that is why the pies have hit a bit of a slump ie players are tiring (I was wondering if they are doing a hard training block atm to get ready for finals).

Bin while i can see the pros and cons for that i would much rather see ourselves fatigued and in the process maintaining possession more often, than the chaos style we tend to play for far too long where we often turn it over anyway, and then exhaust ourselves even more, chasing the opp's tail on the rebound.  Rinse...repeat.

Chaos play on style is ok IMO for portions of the match but we need a mix of that and the slower tempo possession game in order to match it with the best and halt the opp run ons when we are fatiguing under the crash chaos option and/or ice a quarter or match.  In addition i don't think it's wise playing a chaos game when our forward line isn't that potent.

As you say, if we aren't hitting targets very often and with no genuine crumbers kicking goals and pressuring, then the ball is sailing straight back.  If we put a very fit mostly best 22 in i'm sure that scenario might change a little (including an in form Hannan as mentioned) but we really need the smaller forwards and a genuine KPF if it is to pay off consistently and have a shot at finals in 2020.

The Pies have lost a bit up forward with the Stephenson betting ban, an injured Reid and an out of form Cox so they may well be suffering from similar forward line / conversion woes like us.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Dr. Gonzo 22,396]

On 7/9/2019 at 3:33 PM, jnrmac said:

I saw different vision on "On the Couch" and while the decision looked correct I was more interested in the process of whether it was automatically reviewed as a matter of course when its a point. Goals are supposedly reviewed automatically but I am not sure about points. And by the time the ball was kicked it was almost game over before a review could have taken place. IF it was an incorrect decision what would have happened?

There is no way that was reviewed. Goals are (supposedly) reviewed automatically there is not enough time to review points especially with the change in rules meaning players can kick in without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flag.

[jnrmac 18,914]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

There is no way that was reviewed. Goals are (supposedly) reviewed automatically there is not enough time to review points especially with the change in rules meaning players can kick in without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flag.

I agree. But what if it was a goal (which I don't think it was)?

Another flaw in the system.

[sue 8,409]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

There is no way that was reviewed. Goals are (supposedly) reviewed automatically there is not enough time to review points especially with the change in rules meaning players can kick in without waiting for the goal umpire to wave the flag.

A wrongly called point (which was in fact a goal) could have a big an effect as a wrongly called goal (which was in fact a point).  The main difference in reviewing is that touched ball decisions don't affect a point (and balls hitting the behind post rather than sailing through will only affect the score by 1 point, not 6.    Seems to me there is a lot to be said for abandoning the video reviews entirely until they have a comprehensive reliable system in place for both.

Edited July 12, 2019 by sue

[Dr. Gonzo 22,396]

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I agree. But what if it was a goal (which I don't think it was)?

Another flaw in the system.

 

4 hours ago, sue said:

A wrongly called point (which was in fact a goal) could have a big an effect as a wrongly called goal (which was in fact a point).  The main difference in reviewing is that touched ball decisions don't affect a point (and balls hitting the behind post rather than sailing through will only affect the score by 1 point, not 6.    Seems to me there is a lot to be said for abandoning the video reviews entirely until they have a comprehensive reliable system in place for both.

Simple solution is umpire should call for the review. However Rodan seemed quite confident in his decision. Although he was 2 weeks ago in Geelong too and they overturned that.