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Lucifer's Hero

Rounds 18 to 21

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Rounds 18 to 21 should show what we have learnt and how far we have progressed this year.  

We have return games vs Eagles, Saints, Tigers, Pies.  They beat us this year with better game plans or better tactics or straighter kicking. 

But we will have most of the preseason/early season injured players back.  We have had 2-3 months to apply lessons learnt and a new coaching structure.  So we should perform better this time round.  Hoping for a few wins!

A benefit of the return matches is coaches can test different tactics/plans.  If they work against arguably 3 of the best 4-5 teams then we can be optimistic of a successful 2020.  If they don't it is back to the drawing board.

I'm looking forward to these games to see how we have adjusted and what 2020 may bring.

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2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Rounds 18 to 21 should show what we have learnt and how far we have progressed this year.  

We have return games vs Eagles, Saints, Tigers, Pies.  They beat us this year with better game plans or better tactics or straighter kicking. 

But we will have most of the preseason/early season injured players back.  We have had 2-3 months to apply lessons learnt and a new coaching structure.  So we should perform better this time round.  Hoping for a few wins!

A benefit of the return matches is coaches can test different tactics/plans.  If they work against arguably 3 of the best 4-5 teams then we can be optimistic of a successful 2020.  If they don't it is back to the drawing board.

I'm looking forward to these games to see how we have adjusted and what 2020 may bring.

Agree. We should win 2 of them against the saints and the filth.

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Hate to be doomsday but I’d be surprised if we see anything different from what’s been dished up so far. I’m expecting plenty of the ball, good amount of hard ball gets and more i50s than the opposition. I’m also expecting scrappy i50 entries leading to poor score returns. Also expecting poor skills leading to turnovers and easy scoring opportunities for our opponent. 

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Round 15 saw probably our worst half for the season as far as intent and effort goes (let alone game plan), so it's hard to see much changing in the next 2 weeks.

 

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1 minute ago, Nelo said:

Hate to be doomsday but I’d be surprised if we see anything different from what’s been dished up so far. I’m expecting plenty of the ball, good amount of hard ball gets and more i50s than the opposition. I’m also expecting scrappy i50 entries leading to poor score returns. Also expecting poor skills leading to turnovers and easy scoring opportunities for our opponent. 

It's been a fairly stagnant 2 months dating back to our win against Hawthorn. Better than rounds 1-6, but still uninspiring. Overall, we have gotten better at executing a very poor gameplan, with similarly poor skills. Better, but still quite poor.

Our bigger test atm is against the likes of Carlton, North and the Bulldogs. As it stands these are three teams play much better football than us, who subjectively have lists with less overall quality, but appear to be finding form as the season progresses. We however appear to be fumbling towards the end of the season. 

We have the 17th easiest draw to end the season. Anything less than a 8-14 record to end the season would raise even more questions and concerns that what already exist.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Nelo said:

Hate to be doomsday but I’d be surprised if we see anything different from what’s been dished up so far. I’m expecting plenty of the ball, good amount of hard ball gets and more i50s than the opposition. I’m also expecting scrappy i50 entries leading to poor score returns. Also expecting poor skills leading to turnovers and easy scoring opportunities for our opponent. 

 

12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Round 15 saw probably our worst half for the season as far as intent and effort goes (let alone game plan), so it's hard to see much changing in the next 2 weeks.

If some things don't change it is unlikely the results will.  I don't mind too much if we don't win but the club most show it has improved in this year and what better way to do that than these four return games.

If some things don't change we will miss the opportunity to test different coaching ideas against teams that in recent years have generally had the wood on us and are successful teams. 

To me it is now all about preparation for 2020 so I expect the club to play to win but not to squander the opportunity the rest of the season provides for experimenting and show that we have learnt and improved. 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

If some things don't change it is unlikely the results will.  I don't mind too much if we don't win but the club most show it has improved in this year and what better way to do that than these four return games.

If some things don't change we will miss the opportunity to test different coaching ideas against teams that in recent years have generally had the wood on us and are successful teams. 

To me it is now all about preparation for 2020 so I expect the club to play to win but not to squander the opportunity the rest of the season provides for experimenting.

Completely agree about it being a test and being about preparation for 2020, I'm just very concerned about how much we gave up in the Brisbane game and that it may be an indication of how a lot of the players will treat the rest of this year.

 

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There's also the motivation levels that may come into play. If we're a couple per cent off the opposition in terms of desire then that will go a long way to losing all those games. You could already see the desire drop off dramatically in the second half against a finals bound Brisbane when Hipwood jagged all those goals late in the 3rd qtr.

West Coast, Richmond and Collingwood will all be hungry for top 4 spots where as we'll be playing for a bit of pride. I don't see those games going well.

St Kilda have returned to the shallow end of the pool so I'd be hoping we can exact a bit of a revenge in that rd 19 game.

 

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10 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Completely agree about it being a test and being about preparation for 2020, I'm just very concerned about how much we gave up in the Brisbane game and that it may be an indication of how a lot of the players will treat the rest of this year.

6 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

There's also the motivation levels that may come into play. If we're a couple per cent off the opposition in terms of desire then that will go a long way to losing all those games. You could already see the desire drop off dramatically in the second half against a finals bound Brisbane when Hipwood jagged all those goals late in the 3rd qtr.

West Coast, Richmond and Collingwood will all be hungry for top 4 spots where as we'll be playing for a bit of pride. I don't see those games going well.

St Kilda have returned to the shallow end of the pool so I'd be hoping we can exact a bit of a revenge in that rd 19 game.

It never occurred to me that players will not play out the season as if we were in the finals race. 

In 2019 they have taken the respect for our beloved demons back several years.  They have 8 weeks to get some of it back.  They can shape the final 8, play for pride and their own self respect.  I just can't digest the thought that they will not do their best in every game.

If they just put the cue in the rack it will be a poor way to enter the 2020 preseason.   Where will the hunger come from in 2020?

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5 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It never occurred to me that players will not play out the season as if we were in the finals race. 

In 2019 they have taken the respect for our beloved demons back several years.  They have 8 weeks to get some of it back.  They can shape the final 8, play for pride and their own self respect.  I just can't digest the thought that they will not do their best in every game.

If they just put the cue in the rack it will be a poor way to enter the 2020 preseason.   Where will the hunger come from in 2020?

Collingwood... last round of 2017 if they want to look for a role model

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5 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Collingwood... last round of 2017 if they want to look for a role model

It’s so easy to see isn’t it. 

The only Club who doesn’t get it is us. 

We made Nathan Jones a September Video in 2017 and it was released before the Finals had been made!!!

Stand Up Comedy....

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Pity, was looking forward to the Tigers and Pies home games at a near capacity MCG at the start of the season. Was picturing noise levels of last year’s finals. Want to see some fight from here, don’t want other teams penciling in 4 points when they see our name.

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39 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Pity, was looking forward to the Tigers and Pies home games at a near capacity MCG at the start of the season. Was picturing noise levels of last year’s finals. Want to see some fight from here, don’t want other teams penciling in 4 points when they see our name.

Unfortunately, I reckon they do.....

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6 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Unfortunately, I reckon they do.....

And rightly so.

We’ve been pathetic this season and are a joke amongst the league again. Brisbane absolutely embarrassed us on the weekend, thrashing us around the stoppages - the core of our gameplan apparently. It was insulting and shows how far we’ve fallen since the second half of last year.

Until there is a big change in gamestyle, every team in the league would rightly pencil in a win against us. Even Carlton this weekend would fancy themselves after knocking off Freo in Perth minus Cripps and Curnow!

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1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Round 15 saw probably our worst half for the season as far as intent and effort goes (let alone game plan), so it's hard to see much changing in the next 2 weeks.

 

I was thinking this the other day.

Up until now, parking the game plan and skill level, I don’t think you could fault the effort.

Now that this season is 100% gone, I will be interested to see if there are more drop-offs like there was in the second half against Brisbane.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Collingwood... last round of 2017 if they want to look for a role model

At this stage I think it's unlikely that we could keep the Pies out of the final, but if we could deal them a body blow like knocking them out of the top 4 or setting them up for an away final or something, that would be nice.

Agree entirely with what Lucifer is getting at in this thread.  I want to see improvement and us gain something from the back half of the year.  Part of me cares less about winning or loosing against the likes of Carlton etc than about beating the better teams, but we can't just coast against the poor ones and put everything into the good sides either because we'd never do that in a season proper.

In some ways now the season is gone, it does provide us with some freedom to try things out like we might otherwise do in preseason without caring so much about the final win/loss result, but better, because every game must and will still be played at home and away season intensity.  In alot of ways the several seasons that preceeded 2018 might have put us back developmentally because we were so close to making finals at the back end of the season that as much as the coaches would have said they were coaching for the future, there was probably also a reluctantace to persevere with core issues that we needed to rectify in case that meant loosing the game.

 As supporters, we might not immediately see the fruits in complete performances from siren to siren, but so long as the players and the coaches can use the rest of the season to get their act together, then I'm quite prepared to put up with a few more frustrating scoreboard results this season.

Edited by Rodney (Balls) Grinter
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3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It never occurred to me that players will not play out the season as if we were in the finals race. 

In 2019 they have taken the respect for our beloved demons back several years.  They have 8 weeks to get some of it back.  They can shape the final 8, play for pride and their own self respect.  I just can't digest the thought that they will not do their best in every game.

If they just put the cue in the rack it will be a poor way to enter the 2020 preseason.   Where will the hunger come from in 2020?

I think we will try hard but it's human nature that when finals are mathematically impossible (which they could be closer to the end of the season) there is a little less motivation and that absolute desperation that a finals aspirant has may just drop off a little. I don't believe this is not trying hard - it's simply that physically you don't reach the same level when mentally you know there isn't as much at stake.

I don't believe this is reflective of a poor mentality or a lack of hunger and I believe that all clubs experience this.

I also don't believe it will have any effect on the 2020 season - just as Richmond's 113 point loss to Sydney in the last round of 2016 had no adverse effect on their 2017 premiership season.

Just to avoid confusion, I'm not saying we should expect to see a lack of interest and intent over the next 8 weeks as that would be very disappointing. I'm just saying we may see some drop-offs late in games later in the season if we are absolutely no chance of making finals.

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33 minutes ago, Scoop Junior said:

I think we will try hard but it's human nature that when finals are mathematically impossible (which they could be closer to the end of the season) there is a little less motivation and that absolute desperation that a finals aspirant has may just drop off a little. I don't believe this is not trying hard - it's simply that physically you don't reach the same level when mentally you know there isn't as much at stake.

I don't believe this is reflective of a poor mentality or a lack of hunger and I believe that all clubs experience this.

I also don't believe it will have any effect on the 2020 season - just as Richmond's 113 point loss to Sydney in the last round of 2016 had no adverse effect on their 2017 premiership season.

Just to avoid confusion, I'm not saying we should expect to see a lack of interest and intent over the next 8 weeks as that would be very disappointing. I'm just saying we may see some drop-offs late in games later in the season if we are absolutely no chance of making finals.

Where was that killer attitude in Round 23 2017...?

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1 hour ago, Scoop Junior said:

I think we will try hard but it's human nature that when finals are mathematically impossible (which they could be closer to the end of the season) there is a little less motivation and that absolute desperation that a finals aspirant has may just drop off a little. I don't believe this is not trying hard - it's simply that physically you don't reach the same level when mentally you know there isn't as much at stake.

I don't believe this is reflective of a poor mentality or a lack of hunger and I believe that all clubs experience this.

I also don't believe it will have any effect on the 2020 season - just as Richmond's 113 point loss to Sydney in the last round of 2016 had no adverse effect on their 2017 premiership season.

Just to avoid confusion, I'm not saying we should expect to see a lack of interest and intent over the next 8 weeks as that would be very disappointing. I'm just saying we may see some drop-offs late in games later in the season if we are absolutely no chance of making finals.

Agree and at the same time:

1. Any players that need surgery or the opportunity of a rest to get over injuries should be given the opportunity to do so and;

2. There will also be a number of fringe players on the list that will be going very hard at it to have one last crack at showing why they should remain on the list, which should provide some sort of motivating force within the team in those dying games;

3. I think giving Jordan Lewis the send off he deserves from the MFC in the seniors fits somewhere in here too and I don't think he will be wanting to go out without some sort of a bang.

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I’m really pleased that it looks as though we will have our list fully fit and rare’in to go by Round 23......

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We got smashed by Brisbane but before that we beat Freo and had a real chance to give Collingwood a decent fright the week before. Garlett goes back and kicks a goal instead of passing inside 40 and it's game on.

Clearly the Pies form has dropped off the last month or so but they were on for a big game at the MCG with JaidBet playing. Different circumstances to some of their form at Docklands against Docklands home tenants.

I think the midfield should bounce back from last weeks debacle and then the backline stands a chance to show some improvement. The forwards are already on a path to hopefully revert towards the mean (you can only score from 16% of inside 50's for so long).

I'm not a big believer in reading too much in to return matches against a side you've played once. Things change so quickly in this league. Just play out the season week by week in to August.

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49 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Where was that killer attitude in Round 23 2017...?

We choked that one.

There is no doubt we wanted to win that one but we couldn't handle the pressure / expectation of our first finals appearance in 9 years being one win away.

It wasn't a case of not trying - it was a case of the fear of failure taking charge.

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5 hours ago, Nelo said:

Hate to be doomsday....

Really?

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1 hour ago, Scoop Junior said:

We choked that one.

There is no doubt we wanted to win that one but we couldn't handle the pressure / expectation of our first finals appearance in 9 years being one win away.

It wasn't a case of not trying - it was a case of the fear of failure taking charge.

Fear of Failure, not being ready, couldn’t handle the pressure...Why?

Preparation not up to standard...

Lack of Leadership....

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