Honesty

[Demon Dynasty 15,160]

9 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

We changed a number of the coaching roles recently. As a matter of interest, how long would people expect any impact from such a change to show itself in the way we play? I would have thought at least three matches and that's if the players understand the changes and can actually execute them.

I'm not being critical, just curious. 

 

June 30, 2019 11:33am

Josh GabelichFOX SPORTS

Finals not on Rhyce Shaw’s mind yet, but North Melbourne is in the hunt again

Rhyce Shaw talks to his players at a break.

North Melbourne has recovered from a 2-7 start to 2019 to sit one win outside the top eight with two months to play, but the Kangaroos aren’t dreaming about September yet.

Since Rhyce Shaw replaced Brad Scott as caretaker coach at the end of May, things have changed dramatically at Arden Street.

Not only have they won three of four games under Shaw, they have changed the way they play, got more out of underperforming young players and smashed premiership contenders Collingwood on Saturday night — holding Nathan Buckley’s team to its lowest score since Round 5, 1995

How caretaker coach Rhyce Shaw has sparked Kangaroos renaissance

By Chris De Silva

 

 

 

 

Play Video

How Shaw has changed Kangaroos

1 / 20

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FTQWB

North Melbourne star Mason Wood has complimented caretaker coach Rhyce Shaw for simplifying things since taking over for Brad Scott.

Since Scott's mutual exit with the club, Shaw has won three of his four games in charge, including the big scalps of Richmond and Collingwood.

The Kangaroos were clinical in the 44-point win over the Magpies in Round 15, holding them to their lowest score in 24 years

Edited July 1, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Spofforth 280]

2 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Honestly, being at the ground, I thought up until half way through the third quarter, it was about the cleanest and most confident ball use that I'd seen all year.  When Steve May kicked that goal I thought that we had opened up a break on them big enough to start putting on some score board pressure and control the game.

Then a champion young players of theirs Hipwood had a purple patch to be envious of, kicked something like 5 goals straight (most of which were from pretty tough spots) and the pendulum swung completely.  I can't say who was on Hipwood for all of those goals, but early in the last, it was Petty who was getting a bath, which was quickly switched to Frosty who stemed the bleading from that point on.  I can honestly imagine if it had been Oscar, then the guy would be copping a huge whipping on this forum.  I can honestly say that though he made it back out onto the ground that I don't feel Max had anything like his usual impact after half time either, which is fair enough.

I can honestly say I can't see what good publicaly berating our players would do when one of our biggest problems at the moment is confidence.  I haven't listed to many (if any) of Goody's press conferences this year, but from what I recall of him last season, he is pretty down the line and clear with the areas he thinks we are falling down in and need to improve.  As much as I hate us loosing, and the emotions associated with that, I don't think unloading all of that and the associated critisism it would unleash would be productive.

I also honestly think that Brisbane are a pretty decient side now and that going up and beating them on their home deck would have been a huge upset for us, which at times it almost looked like we were going to pull off, but they got the better of us in the end and that's the way it goes.  I am honestly concerned about the ease at which they were able to break clear of us from their back half and through the centre if the ground and win most of the stoppages in the last 3/8ths of the game, because they made us look fairly second rate once the worm turned.  Perhaps the injured Max factor was part of that, but can't be all of it and we need to do better.  I honestly think the way we are playing at the moment, we are down one mature gun onballer and that the drop off of Jones, Bernie before him and then the loss of AVB has really hurt us in that regard.

I honestly think it was the best game that I've seen Salem play in a few matches, that from the game he played, I can see the value in recruiting Steve May.  I can also honestly say that I think Trac has elevated his game this season to the point that if we were playing better as a team he would be completely busting open games being lauded for delivering on his potential, but because we are not, he gets dragged down with the team performance.

I was there too and this is pretty much my take on the game.

Sounds like the telly experience was different, but I was reasonably happy with how we were travelling until halfway through the third quarter before Hipwood had a purple patch and took the momentum away from us. We had chances to get back into it but once again skill errors and bad decision making killed it off. But Brisbane are a very hard side to beat at the Gabba, especially once the sun goes down and the dew gets up, and it was 6th vs 16th so it wasn't that surprising.

I wanted a win, and don't worry, there were plenty of frustrating moments (Brayshaw/ANB/Harmes/McDonald), but overall I don't think it was a performance deserving of all the doom and gloom on this forum.

[Dee Zephyr 17,296]

2 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

.  I can't say who was on Hipwood for all of those goals, but early in the last, it was Petty who was getting a bath, which was quickly switched to Frosty who stemed the bleading from that point on.

I had a look at Hipwood’s ‘ GameBreaker’ highlights to see how he got his goals. 

Hore was on Hipwood for the first goal, ball watched and allowed Hipwood to run to the top of the square unopposed. May let Hore know all about it too.

May was on him for the second, Hipwood just beat him on a lead.

Petty was on him for his 3rd and like Hore for Hipwood’s first goal, ball watched and allowed him to run free for another mark and goal. Petty was on him for his 4th and 5th also. 

2 of his first 3 goals were due to basic defensive errors from a couple of inexperienced players. Hipwood was allowed to get off the leash so to speak. 

Since we are being honest, I thought Salem was a bit unlucky not to get a coaches vote. He was by far our best player. In a game where we led for about 60% of the time no MFC player got a vote. 

[binman 37,722]

9 minutes ago, Demon Spofforth said:

I was there too and this is pretty much my take on the game.

Sounds like the telly experience was different, but I was reasonably happy with how we were travelling until halfway through the third quarter before Hipwood had a purple patch and took the momentum away from us. We had chances to get back into it but once again skill errors and bad decision making killed it off. But Brisbane are a very hard side to beat at the Gabba, especially once the sun goes down and the dew gets up, and it was 6th vs 16th so it wasn't that surprising.

I wanted a win, and don't worry, there were plenty of frustrating moments (Brayshaw/ANB/Harmes/McDonald), but overall I don't think it was a performance deserving of all the doom and gloom on this forum.

Agree with all points.

In some ways it was the most sobering loss we've had. We should have beaten wc and crows so they hurt. In tgis game we played ok but lions were clearly the better team all game (only their innacurate and lack of effficiency kept us in it) and eventually that told.

I reckon an issue for us was that ecan before maxy got injured they were reading his taps brilliantly. And when their mids got it they did something dangerous with it. Unlike ours.

[rjay 23,844]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

I reckon an issue for us was that ecan before maxy got injured they were reading his taps brilliantly. And when their mids got it they did something dangerous with it. Unlike ours.

We let them walk through the middle 'bin'...our midfield weren't switched on and got smashed.

That was where the game was lost.

[binman 37,722]

True, their defensive pressure was woeful. That's a worry.

[Lucifers Hero 36,973]

13 hours ago, Redleg said:

Garry was pretty honest on On the Couch, when he said, we were the worst disposing team in the AFL and why would the game plan stay the same when it is clearly not working. He had a go at the Coaching for not adapting to what was happening.

 

13 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

So did Roosy.

(Just for those who were planning on chiming in with the typical 'He chose Neeld, what would he know?!' rubbish)

Lyon and Roos have been saying that for a while but it must be fugazzi to our coach.  Hopefully this honesty catches Goodwin's attention:  how-the-lions-beat-the-dees-at-their-own-game

"What Brisbane...did...was as big a football insult possible to Simon Goodwin, who's built his team brand around dominating at the coalface".   Ouch!! Brutal but honest.

"The Lions savaged the Demons 20-6 in the centre clearances... for Melbourne, it was the club's equal second-worst differential ever recorded."  Read that again:  Equal second worst EVER!  As bad or worse than the Neeld years. 

"Brisbane also won 27 – twenty-seven – more contested possessions than the Demons".

So much for our 'one wood'; more like a plastic putter!!

More than enough evidence is presented week after week that Goodwin's' brand' no longer works.  Goodwin looks stuck in neutral, spinning wheels and digging a deep hole.  He must make changes to the game plan.  Or if players are not listening, change the players.  To continue as is, he may take us into an almighty sink hole!

Time for the coach to have an honest look in the mirror.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[joeboy 2,754]

 

All the above are even more reason for Preuss to be included whether Maxy plays or not.

Preuss’s size makes him an X factor who is hard to match up on, let alone predict.

The selectors must ignore the fact that Max may  be dominant( if fit ) and make life difficult for Carlton by selecting 2 imposing figures.

Surely Preuss is likely to be more effective and useful than any of Weideman, Smith, and T.Mac , even if it’s just by imposing the fear factor

So in my view its Preuss for Smith

Edited July 2, 2019 by joeboy

[TGR 1,367]

I think the camp fiasco said 1000 words in relation to player-coach trust.  A big thing for players to go to the AFLPA instead of having faith in raising it with the leadership group and/or coaching staff.

 

I wouldn't reference Hinkley.  He is the coach of the flakiest team in the AFL.

Buckley?  Well North really went courage crazy and a few in the black and white took a side-step.  Buckley is honest...you are right.

Bevo won a flag by cuddling his boys...who knows what is right and wrong.

 

Honesty says that we felt very comfortable at the end of last year, thinking we needed to tinker.  We need an overhaul.  Geelong got pumped by us in that final last year.  Interesting how one team went to the well, while the other thought top 4 was inevitable.

 

[Scoop Junior 2,963]

13 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Wayne Carey said on Talking footy it looked like we were there for a Sunday picnic. No pressure at all applied to Brisbane. 2 tackles in a qtr. Called it our worst performance of the year.

I'd be pretty happy if our worst performance sees us 2 points down with 1 minute remaining in the third quarter against a top 6 side interstate.

[Sir Why You Little 34,405]

55 minutes ago, TGR said:

I think the camp fiasco said 1000 words in relation to player-coach trust.  A big thing for players to go to the AFLPA instead of having faith in raising it with the leadership group and/or coaching staff.

 

I wouldn't reference Hinkley.  He is the coach of the flakiest team in the AFL.

Buckley?  Well North really went courage crazy and a few in the black and white took a side-step.  Buckley is honest...you are right.

Bevo won a flag by cuddling his boys...who knows what is right and wrong.

 

Honesty says that we felt very comfortable at the end of last year, thinking we needed to tinker.  We need an overhaul.  Geelong got pumped by us in that final last year.  Interesting how one team went to the well, while the other thought top 4 was inevitable.

 

First time i have agreed with TGR

The attitude of the MFC after the Preliminary Final was always a worry to me. 

I haven’t seen any change since then, except a lot of words and promises 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,567]

4 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

I had a look at Hipwood’s ‘ GameBreaker’ highlights to see how he got his goals. 

Hore was on Hipwood for the first goal, ball watched and allowed Hipwood to run to the top of the square unopposed. May let Hore know all about it too.

May was on him for the second, Hipwood just beat him on a lead.

Petty was on him for his 3rd and like Hore for Hipwood’s first goal, ball watched and allowed him to run free for another mark and goal. Petty was on him for his 4th and 5th also. 

2 of his first 3 goals were due to basic defensive errors from a couple of inexperienced players. Hipwood was allowed to get off the leash so to speak. 

Since we are being honest, I thought Salem was a bit unlucky not to get a coaches vote. He was by far our best player. In a game where we led for about 60% of the time no MFC player got a vote. 

Yeah, that seems about right.  If I recall correctly, the one that started that run on they got in the third quarter was also partly the result of us turning over the ball and our defense being out of position.  There was about three of them he would have kicked from the paint right on 50 and/or right out on the boundary - an example of some great goal kicking.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[ArtificialWisdom 3,844]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

"The Lions savaged the Demons 20-6 in the centre clearances... for Melbourne, it was the club's equal second-worst differential ever recorded."  Read that again:  Equal second worst EVER!  As bad or worse than the Neeld years. 

"Brisbane also won 27 – twenty-seven – more contested possessions than the Demons".

So much for our 'one wood'; more like a plastic putter!!

More than enough evidence is presented week after week that Goodwin's' brand' no longer works. 

Based on this evidence, this is the wrong conclusion . You have said his brand doesn't work by pointing out evidence that we didn't at all play to Goodwin's brand. If we had smashed them in clearances and contested ball and still lost then that would be evidence that his brand doesn't work.

Its clear that in the last 2 weeks we are kicking more rather than using the run and handball. Which is on par with everyone else. We still try to move the ball on quickly even by foot so we are playing more like the Giants than the Cats/Pies. The gameplan is shifting, but when you fail so badly at what you do best then you're rarely going to win. Particularly interstate against a top 4 hopeful.

[Lucifers Hero 36,973]

2 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Based on this evidence, this is the wrong conclusion . You have said his brand doesn't work by pointing out evidence that we didn't at all play to Goodwin's brand. If we had smashed them in clearances and contested ball and still lost then that would be evidence that his brand doesn't work.

Its clear that in the last 2 weeks we are kicking more rather than using the run and handball. Which is on par with everyone else. We still try to move the ball on quickly even by foot so we are playing more like the Giants than the Cats/Pies. The gameplan is shifting, but when you fail so badly at what you do best then you're rarely going to win. Particularly interstate against a top 4 hopeful.

Even when we win the i50, clearances and cp we lose and lose badly.  Evidence that it no longer work.

Opp coaches repeatedly saying the way to win is to match us on the inside and beat us around the ground.  When op do that, they win.  Evidence that it no longer works.

We are 4 W/11L:  Evidence that it no longer works.

If you think by kicking more in one or two qtrs vs Freo is on par with everyone else, you haven't watched how the 'controlled' game teams tear us apart.  Rewatch the prelim, 2018 and 2019 QB game and 2019 round 2 and see how the kick/mark style works.  We are nothing like that.

[Demon Dynasty 15,160]

10 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I can't say who was on Hipwood for all of those goals, but early in the last, it was Petty who was getting a bath, which was quickly switched to Frosty who stemed the bleading from that point on.  I can honestly imagine if it had been Oscar, then the guy would be copping a huge whipping on this forum.  I can honestly say that though he made it back out onto the ground that I don't feel Max had anything like his usual impact after half time either, which is fair enough.

I can honestly say I can't see what good publicaly berating our players would do when one of our biggest problems at the moment is confidence.  I haven't listed to many (if any) of Goody's press conferences this year, but from what I recall of him last season, he is pretty down the line and clear with the areas he thinks we are falling down in and need to improve.  As much as I hate us loosing, and the emotions associated with that, I don't think unloading all of that and the associated critisism it would unleash would be productive.

I also honestly think that Brisbane are a pretty decient side now and that going up and beating them on their home deck would have been a huge upset for us, which at times it almost looked like we were going to pull off, but they got the better of us in the end and that's the way it goes.  I am honestly concerned about the ease at which they were able to break clear of us from their back half and through the centre if the ground and win most of the stoppages in the last 3/8ths of the game, because they made us look fairly second rate once the worm turned.  Perhaps the injured Max factor was part of that, but can't be all of it and we need to do better.  I honestly think the way we are playing at the moment, we are down one mature gun onballer and that the drop off of Jones, Bernie before him and then the loss of AVB has really hurt us in that regard.

I honestly think it was the best game that I've seen Salem play in a few matches, that from the game he played, I can see the value in recruiting Steve May.  I can also honestly say that I think Trac has elevated his game this season to the point that if we were playing better as a team he would be completely busting open games being lauded for delivering on his potential, but because we are not, he gets dragged down with the team performance.

There is a lot of honesty going on in this thread RBG!

Re:  Oscar....

He has played the equivalent of 3 seasons and 7 matches more than Petty at the start of the Brissy match.  Always going to be a little more scrutiny on his performance vs a complete noob to the game.

[Redleg 37,447]

9 hours ago, Kent said:

Reece Shaw and Teague took 1 week  to get a better result

so 1 week for the DEES changes except nothing changed the ship is still listing badly but the chairs are in order

We won the week after the changes and lost the next week, to a side in the eight, at full strength  and playing on their own dung heap.

[praha 10,267]

Who remembers Daniher absolutely blasting the team in 1998, I think after our loss to Essendon? Came out and said we were shocking, didn't play good footy. I'll never forget it because he said it in the rooms after the game to the media and you could see Steven Febey in the background listening in. We haven't heard a coach criticize performance since Daniher. We are stuck in the Roos days of cuddling players.

[dimmy 1,108]

10 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Honestly, being at the ground, I thought up until half way through the third quarter, it was about the cleanest and most confident ball use that I'd seen all year.  When Steve May kicked that goal I thought that we had opened up a break on them big enough to start putting on some score board pressure and control the game.

Then a champion young players of theirs Hipwood had a purple patch to be envious of, kicked something like 5 goals straight (most of which were from pretty tough spots) and the pendulum swung completely.  I can't say who was on Hipwood for all of those goals, but early in the last, it was Petty who was getting a bath, which was quickly switched to Frosty who stemed the bleading from that point on.  I can honestly imagine if it had been Oscar, then the guy would be copping a huge whipping on this forum.  I can honestly say that though he made it back out onto the ground that I don't feel Max had anything like his usual impact after half time either, which is fair enough.

I can honestly say I can't see what good publicaly berating our players would do when one of our biggest problems at the moment is confidence.  I haven't listed to many (if any) of Goody's press conferences this year, but from what I recall of him last season, he is pretty down the line and clear with the areas he thinks we are falling down in and need to improve.  As much as I hate us loosing, and the emotions associated with that, I don't think unloading all of that and the associated critisism it would unleash would be productive.

I also honestly think that Brisbane are a pretty decient side now and that going up and beating them on their home deck would have been a huge upset for us, which at times it almost looked like we were going to pull off, but they got the better of us in the end and that's the way it goes.  I am honestly concerned about the ease at which they were able to break clear of us from their back half and through the centre if the ground and win most of the stoppages in the last 3/8ths of the game, because they made us look fairly second rate once the worm turned.  Perhaps the injured Max factor was part of that, but can't be all of it and we need to do better.  I honestly think the way we are playing at the moment, we are down one mature gun onballer and that the drop off of Jones, Bernie before him and then the loss of AVB has really hurt us in that regard.

I honestly think it was the best game that I've seen Salem play in a few matches, that from the game he played, I can see the value in recruiting Steve May.  I can also honestly say that I think Trac has elevated his game this season to the point that if we were playing better as a team he would be completely busting open games being lauded for delivering on his potential, but because we are not, he gets dragged down with the team performance.

Agree whole heartedly.

[Demon Dynasty 15,160]

5 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Based on this evidence, this is the wrong conclusion . You have said his brand doesn't work by pointing out evidence that we didn't at all play to Goodwin's brand. If we had smashed them in clearances and contested ball and still lost then that would be evidence that his brand doesn't work.

Its clear that in the last 2 weeks we are kicking more rather than using the run and handball. Which is on par with everyone else. We still try to move the ball on quickly even by foot so we are playing more like the Giants than the Cats/Pies. The gameplan is shifting, but when you fail so badly at what you do best then you're rarely going to win. Particularly interstate against a top 4 hopeful.

Its the first time we've been smashed in the middle for some time.  Most matches we have won or matched the opp with clearances and similar or better in contested with only a few losses of significance here.

Currently ranked 3rd in clearances and 4th in contested (on averages) this season.

Yet we are still 4/11 W/L.

Goody's over emphasis/imbalance towards crash bash 'numbers at the ball' vs a balance of that style, mixed with an outside run/ tempo possession game, hurts us not just within a match (unless you have your best 20- 22 playing at their peak fitness & in great form a la 2nd half of 2018) but it is also not sustainable from week to week.  Too exhausting to maintain for 4 quarters and week to week with a group that has so many NQRs and relative rookies that don't have the tank or AFL level match fitness to pull it off on the rotations.

It also hurts us around the ground as we are not maintaining a good balance of inside outside numbers with too many throwing themselves at ground balls and too many flying for marks.  This after 2 seasons and 14 matches to ingrain the fix via drills on the training track...so we MUST be training that style!  This is Goody's methods/style and what he and the players preach in thier weekly "getting back to the way we want to play" mantra.

As other players from other teams have said, "we KNOW If we match them (or better) on the inside, we will get them on the outsid".  They can see the imbalance in their weekly reviews highlighted by the opp analysts etc and they know we will almost always over committ too many numbers on the inside and in marking contests without enough (or in some cases anyone) on the outside to cover the escaping player or spilled ball.

A terrible forward line hasn't helped either.  The amount of times we have failed to score and or not taken a shot even when well within range (passing the buck) and another turnover for the sling shot.  The lack of pressure inside 50 and an inability to lock the ball in allowing the opp to waltz out making it difficult to set up / recover defensively (little rest time) 

Add to this our terrible disposal skills in general, being the 3rd worst in the comp for turnovers (only beaten by the Power & the Dockers), and we are witnessing a terrible Game Style/Skills combo that has us sitting in the bottom quartile with a good chance of winning the spoon.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[demonchris 162]

It’s easy for media to say whatever they like about teams. But if an honest breakdown of the ‘why’ occurred and not the ‘result’, it would be evident to most the ‘why’s’ are not because of our coach, our game plan etc. this is my opinion, I like to be optimistic rather than doom and gloom.

 

Our first chose team has not been on the park all year, yes injuries happen, but the extent of ours is the worst in the league. Our playing squad is reflective of our ladder position. Much like our playing squad was reflective of a preliminary final last season.