Jump to content

olisik

We are due for a Rebuild.

Recommended Posts

Our midfield, wings and Forward line are not AFL standard. We can’t hit handpasses, our mids don’t defend, our key forwards don’t even take shots at goals when inside 50. 

We need to look to trade out some players to get ourself back into the draft. For the right offer I feel OMac, Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Trac, Tmac and Weeds should be in consideration to help us reset our list and team balance and fill these gaps.

We arnt going to get close to a premiership with this list

  • Angry 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I called this a few weeks ago and was shutdown.

I wouldn't say we need a full rebuild. We need to go the Richmond 2016 route. That means making a tough decision (Deledio) and taking a chance on young talent (Prestia, Caddy).

Coaching wise, Goodwim needs a refresher and maybe a new set of faces. But we are potentially looking at a huge turnover at seasons end. Rumblings I'm hearing within football fraternity is that Bartlett and Pert have both indirectly put football department on notice. Goodwin has a little under 12 months to turn it around.

Edited by praha
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree.  We have a large number of players each week coming into a team, and often have had little experience.  Many of our better players have been poor.  We could certainly do with some talent top up, but we actually have a solid core that should make us very competitive.  As for the game plan, that is a different question.  We have such low skills when we ‘rush’.  This works when we tackle (36 today for a whole game), and when we win contests (about 580:3).  Gotta do better.  But the core is there, and needs consistent time together to  actually create something.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, this list wont be winning us a premiership, but the problem starts in the coaching box. Fix that first before even thinking about rebuilding the list.

Roos was a leader of men and he gave us hope.

Goodwin sprouts corporate BS after every loss ( "Connections" etc etc) and has lost all of the momentum we gained from the last couple of years of Roos' tenure.

Get rid of him before the club is forced into yet another list rebuid. The boys might love him, but he is game day poison.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Last year we had an AFL team that made a preliminary final and a VFL team that made the grand final. Instead of the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, the club's response was to have a massive clean out of players that has killed our depth this year. Do it again and the talent will be stretched pretty thin and we'll spend the next few years in a familiar situation. I don't know the answer but I hope someone at the club does.

Edited by Emerald
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

**Club proceeds to delist Max Gawn

Well not quite. But a tough decision on a Viney, Mcdonald or Brayshaw may be required.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, praha said:

Well not quite. But a tough decision on a Viney, Mcdonald or Brayshaw may be required.

OMAC out. Done!

But seriously, i know he i young and inexperienced, but Weideman in the space of less than a year has gone from a promising young KPP to worrying to disaster. He is next to useless atm in the forward line. Sure some of that has to do with midfield problems, but the majority of it has to do with him being a pretty clueless footballer.

I know he's recently re-signed, but would it be beyond the realms of possibility that he may be put up as trade bait? Or would he be better served with bringing in a #1 forward (Brown) and for TMAC to take #2 & Weid #3 defender?

Edited by Demon Disciple

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Need to do whatever we can to get 5-6 top 20 picks. Our list needs a reset and any trade should be considered before our players lose even more value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Last year we had an AFL team that made a preliminary final and a VFL team that made the grand final. Instead of the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, the club's response was to have a massive clean out of players that has killed our depth this year. Do it again and the talent will be stretched pretty thin and we'll spend the next few years in a familiar situation. I don't know the answer but I hope someone at the club does.

Lol massive clean out.

Where are these amazing depth players who would be helping us?

Hogan went out for May in.
Kent went ok at the Saints but is now injured.
Tyson - couldn't get a game at North.
Bugg - delisted himself from Carlton.

Filipovic? Johnstone? King? McKenna? Pedersen?

I agree we don't need to make massive list changes this year but the idea that our delistings last year had anything to do with our win loss this year was wrong. 

Our depth is poor because our depth players - Tim Smith, Keilty, JKH, Stretch, Wagner * 2, Maynard - have either copped a lot of injuries or just aren't very good. We'll keep some, move others on but it won't be a big factor.

  • Like 19
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, olisik said:

Our midfield, wings and Forward line are not AFL standard. We can’t hit handpasses, our mids don’t defend, our key forwards don’t even take shots at goals when inside 50. 

We need to look to trade out some players to get ourself back into the draft. For the right offer I feel OMac, Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Trac, Tmac and Weeds should be in consideration to help us reset our list and team balance and fill these gaps.

We arnt going to get close to a premiership with this list

We aren't getting more than a packet of chips for Oscar McDonald or Hunt so forget them. At best late 3rd round picks that they'd fetch probably aren't more valuable than keeping them or delisting them or whatever the plan is.

Trading Weids for what? To draft another young key forward who might take 4 years to become better than Weids. How does that help?

Trading Tommy Mc I can get around but who are we getting in? If we've got a 50 goal a year key forward we can swap Tom for then fine go for it. 

Trading Trac, to get in what? Cam Rayner who's just Trac but younger? Trac's played perfectly decent footy the last month or so. Unless you think he'll never buckle down and go to the next level you're pretty much giving up a good player on the hope of a better player. Trade out the one guy who has the ability to be a great half forward flanker only to draft a lesser half forward flanker?

Brayshaw is the one I agree with because his value is hopefully high and we can cover him.

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geelong traded out (pretty much delisted) Menzel.

Bought in:
Rohan - cheap trade
Dahlhaus - free agent
Fist round draft pick Jordan Clark
VFL player upgrade - Tom Atkins
Previour pick - Gryan Miers
Ablett forward

And had a whole new forward line.

We can make maybe 1 subtraction, 3 or 4 additions to beef up the forward line, get some training time and quality together in the midfield get the backline healthy and things can change very quickly.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We dont need a rebuild. We need to add quality and experience onto our list. 

Brisbane showed this year that with good trading it can work if you bring in the right quality in. They added Neale and McCarthy as trades then hit a bargain with a delisted free agent in Jarryd Lyons. They've all made significant impact this year with a tinkering of their game plan.

Richmond did te same at the end of 2016 when they brough in Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis. All 3 played a huge role in that premiership year in 2017. They too tinkered their game.

Start first by adding someone like Ed Langdon and along with a top 5 pick and maybe another decent trade in.

It can change quite quickly.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Lol massive clean out.

Where are these amazing depth players who would be helping us?

Hogan went out for May in.
Kent went ok at the Saints but is now injured.
Tyson - couldn't get a game at North.
Bugg - delisted himself from Carlton.

Filipovic? Johnstone? King? McKenna? Pedersen?

I agree we don't need to make massive list changes this year but the idea that our delistings last year had anything to do with our win loss this year was wrong. 

Our depth is poor because our depth players - Tim Smith, Keilty, JKH, Stretch, Wagner * 2, Maynard - have either copped a lot of injuries or just aren't very good. We'll keep some, move others on but it won't be a big factor.

 

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We aren't getting more than a packet of chips for Oscar McDonald or Hunt so forget them. At best late 3rd round picks that they'd fetch probably aren't more valuable than keeping them or delisting them or whatever the plan is.

Trading Weids for what? To draft another young key forward who might take 4 years to become better than Weids. How does that help?

Trading Tommy Mc I can get around but who are we getting in? If we've got a 50 goal a year key forward we can swap Tom for then fine go for it. 

Trading Trac, to get in what? Cam Rayner who's just Trac but younger? Trac's played perfectly decent footy the last month or so. Unless you think he'll never buckle down and go to the next level you're pretty much giving up a good player on the hope of a better player. Trade out the one guy who has the ability to be a great half forward flanker only to draft a lesser half forward flanker?

Brayshaw is the one I agree with because his value is hopefully high and we can cover him.

 

A brilliant yet well articulated response.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We aren't getting more than a packet of chips for Oscar McDonald or Hunt so forget them. At best late 3rd round picks that they'd fetch probably aren't more valuable than keeping them or delisting them or whatever the plan is.

Trading Weids for what? To draft another young key forward who might take 4 years to become better than Weids. How does that help?

Trading Tommy Mc I can get around but who are we getting in? If we've got a 50 goal a year key forward we can swap Tom for then fine go for it. 

Trading Trac, to get in what? Cam Rayner who's just Trac but younger? Trac's played perfectly decent footy the last month or so. Unless you think he'll never buckle down and go to the next level you're pretty much giving up a good player on the hope of a better player. Trade out the one guy who has the ability to be a great half forward flanker only to draft a lesser half forward flanker?

Brayshaw is the one I agree with because his value is hopefully high and we can cover him.

 

Your over rating Weed, Trac and Tmac here who combined today for a total of 1 tackle.

Also most trades are not as simple as pick for player. We could package one of our 3rd or 2nd rounders + Hunt or Omac to move up the draft in a compounding fashion. 

We almost were able to offload pick 23+ Trengove for a pick to net us Lever, only for us to end up paying 2 first rounders 2 years later.

Edited by olisik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

A brilliant yet well articulated response.

Cheers.

I think one thing we have to do is keep draft picks where possible and brave the free agency waters.

Free agency finds - including delisted pick ups - are the best way to improve the list. A trade improves the list but comes at a cost. It's time we find a at least one if not more who can make us better.

The good news is we've got plenty of positions - half back, wing, half forward, crumbing forward - where our baseline level of talent is so low that it really can't be hard to find a better option. Operation find a better version of the Wagner's and ANB should be the aim.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather wait and see if this happens again next year after another trade/draft period and hopefully a decent run with injuries in pre-season then hit the dump button and go for some mystical tilt at a flag years in the future. Not against necking one big name player to make a statement (and for me it would be Brayshaw) but it's a bit premature to blow the joint up.

Is this what happens when you can't exact vengeance on the coach?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Petracca and Brayshaw are impacting games but there are very few others. They remind me of how poor Scully and Trengove made some of our more senior players look when they were drafted. We should have kept Watts who loved our club. We must keep Oliver, Salem, May, Lever, Gawn and Lockhart. Most of the rest of the list could be looked at, at least the one’s out of contract at the very least.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But people keep telling me Jason Taylor has recruited superbly over the past five years.

How is it possible we need a mini rebuild?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, olisik said:

Your over rating Weed, Trac and Tmac here who combined today for a total of 1 tackle.

Also most trades are not as simple as pick for player. We could package one of our 3rd or 2nd rounders + Hunt or Omac to move up the draft in a compounding fashion. 

So trade for more draft picks so we can wait 4 to 5 years to see if they developed? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Viney is also untouchable!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Petracca is worth 2-3 goals a game when we are playing well. Brayshaw brings hardness and skill and may be our best player. I think both players are not part of the problem. If anything, we need more players like them from the draft.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

What would be the highest number of best 22 we have had on the field in any single game this year? More than 15? There has been too many depth players expected to play like best 22 and it always shows. 

Edited by Clintosaurus
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So trade for more draft picks so we can wait 4 to 5 years to see if they developed? 

 

Jayden Stephenson, Connor Rozee and Sam Walsh say hi. Plenty of recent players who have been drafted who eclipse our players. 

Edited by olisik
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it’s worth, was at Olympic Park Sports medicine the other talking to a couple of the doctors and their comment was “If the players spent a little more time training and a little less time at the cafe next door they might be playing a little better”. Read into this what you will.

  • Shocked 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    HOW FAR SOUTH? by George on the Outer

    It was appropriate that Melbourne was playing its last game of season 2019 in Hobart.  After all, how much further south could the team go? And much as it has done in many of the previous 22 games, the side managed to extract a loss from a winning position by simply giving the ball back to the opposition time and time again. In fact, they gave it back to the opposition to the tune of 53 points from turnovers while, by way of contrast North Melbourne contributed  only 17 points to their oppo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    COOKED by The Oracle

    I can vividly remember when the Demons ventured onto Blundstone Arena for the first time in early 2016 only to lose to the Kangaroos by 20.11.131 to 21.10.136.    Melbourne was then a team on the up and up: young, enthusiastic and bold. It gave up a huge quarter time deficit after kicking against a strong wind but made that up by half time and fell dramatically short after an exciting high scoring affair.  The team lost no fans that day - they were willing to take the game on and attac

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    HELP by KC rom Casey

    The Casey Demons finished off their home and away season against Frankston at Skybus Stadium on Sunday with a narrow, unconvincing 6-point victory that left the door slightly open for a top eight berth when the VFL finals begin in a fortnight’s time. While sunny skies prevailed over Frankston in the morning, the skies became overcast by noon and heavy waves pounded the bay nearby as the rains came in to greet the players as the game started. And conditions stayed dark and dreary for the rem

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THANKS BUT NO THANKS by George on the Outer

    Thanks, but no thanks! In a round where the club was supposed to thank their fans for the support during the year, the Melbourne Football Club chose to do otherwise with a 53 point loss to a team that sat 15th on the ladder.  Don’t give us cheap jumpers that can’t be sold in the Demon shop.  Don’t give us vouchers to shop there, give us something on the field, which is why we come to the football in the first place. It was a disgraceful performance, which started with a disgracefu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SLEEP OUT AT THE MCG by The Oracle

    Around about 12 months ago Melbourne and Sydney fought out an epic battle between two top eight teams fighting for the best possible ladder position in the lead up to the finals. The Swans triumphed by 9 points at the MCG after the Demons came back from five goals down at three quarter time. But for its poor kicking for goal, Melbourne might well have won the game and finished in the top four. Who knows what might then have happened for the club in September? As a consequence, the person re

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A LITTLE RAY OF SUNSHINE by KC from Casey

    Two clubs that have been hard hit by injury recently took part in a dour battle under dark clouds and, with intermittent showers falling, it wasn’t a pretty game at Victoria Park on Sunday. Despite all that, the Casey Demons added a little ray of sunshine to their day to get the job done over a "traditional" rival with a 15 point victory over Collingwood VFL that breathed life back into their season. There were a few highlights at the ground that in past days has seen many titanic batt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THE RETRO ROUND by George on the Outer

    We have seen it all before… Yes, a wonderful idea to showcase what used to be in football.  Big crowds, umpires who knew how to apply the rules and not opinions, high marks, skilful players. But for the Melbourne supporters their retro is what it has been like for the past 10 years. Losing games, end on end, year after year.  Opportunities squandered in front of goal. VFL standard players running around at the MCG. Just more of the same, and the game against Collingwood was no ex

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Thanks to Demonlanders for their input into this week’s preview. Ralphius Maximus is short and bittersweet: We'll crack in at the bounce to create a contest, win our share of the ball, butcher the forward movement and get scored on easily from the intercepts. Not that hard to predict. Big Demon says: Unfortunately Collingwood will win because they have a lot more to play for. We will be good in parts but really the season is well over so we will have to put up with those bell

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    WHAT, NO BLOOD? by George on the Outer

    The feeling when turning up to the MCG on a Saturday night to play a top four side in Richmond, while the Melbourne sits cemented in close proximity to the bottom of the table is like attending the Colosseum in Ancient Roman times. The expectation is that a bloodbath is about to occur. There are 100,000 Richmond members and 50,000 Melbourne members, and despite the fact that it turned out to be a wet night after half-time, a crowd of only 37K bothered to turn up. That should never have happ

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    A MAN’S ERRAND by KC from Casey

    A young and undermanned Casey Demons were sent out on Saturday to the Swinburne Centre in the shadows of the MCG on a man’s errand against a very experienced Richmond VFL combination which is the clear ladder leader and fielded no less than 18 AFL listed players. It was expected to be a rout and the Tigers made easy work of it in the early stages when they held a 26 point lead by quarter time. To their credit however, the Demons weathered the storm and kept their opponents within the range

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THAT’S FOOTBALL by Whispering Jack

    As the season rolls on towards the finals and the football world witnesses the aftermath of the sacking of the league’s unsuccessful coaches, it’s almost  inevitable that the spotlight will turn firmly upon the complete and utter failure of season 2019 - the Melbourne Football Club.  For a team that finished in fourth place last year and was heavily touted as a premiership contender, the fall from grace has been dramatic. As things stand, the Demons look certain to finish 13 places down on

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE MOMENT OF TRUTH IS COMING by KC from Casey

    At half time in Sunday’s game at Trevor Barker Beach Oval, things weren’t looking too flash for the flailing finals prospects of the Casey Demons. Key forward Sam Weideman had suffered a concussion in his first contest and, with a few exceptions, the team was playing like a rabble rather than a finals contender. The Demons were 23 points in arrears to the Zebras and their season was headed towards oblivion. It was the skipper Mitch White who spurred his team on by word and by deed - he fini

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

×
×
  • Create New...