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POSTMATCH: Rd 15 vs Brisbane

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Why do some posters on here attack others for expressing their frustrations.  We are a rabble.  It is fact.  We have won 4 and lost 10.  Stuff the club at the minute.  They deserve every bit of criticism they get.  It's the way it works.  Everyone complicates things.  It's not [censored] complicated.  It's about winning.  When they lose like today, I and others like me, will always give them a spray.  Of course there are legitimate reasons as to why we are not as successful as last year but I am just tired of supporting them and don't wish to hear any more excuses.  It has always been fruitless.  Always.  It's heartbreaking.  And here is another simple truth:  we are a laughing stock in the AFL.  We are pitied.  Facts facts facts.  So to all the do-gooding, bright side of life, positivity finding, excuse peddlers that respond to my post in a patronising way please just spare me.  Keep your delusions to yourselves.  I am not deluded.  Our list is bottom 2, our position next year will be bottom 2.  The club is in strife.  Big strife.

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1 hour ago, Skuit said:

But is it intelligence or immaturity?

Maturity = intelligence, so a bit of both. Same as with everything, experience counts for a lot and experience is something we don't have a lot of, either individually or collectively.

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1 hour ago, Skuit said:

constantly playing on to disadvantage

It's not the playing on part that's the issue per se, it's what happens after we play on, i.e. the disposal. So many disposals just don't make their target, so then ... turnover, and it's off to the races. Weideman has his shortcomings, sure, but watch how many times he works to position, only to see the ball sail over his head or land 10m in front.

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2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Maturity = intelligence, so a bit of both. Same as with everything, experience counts for a lot and experience is something we don't have a lot of, either individually or collectively.

I do actually think it's a personnel mix as well. I love them both and what they bring, but Viney thrives on intensity to push the ball forward and Oliver is a play-maker who hardly ever ends up at the bottom of a pack with the pill still in hand. Not a knock, but their strengths aren't exactly in holding up the ball. Brayshaw meanwhile has always unnecessarily released the ball in tackles - without the benefits of Clarry - and is currently our worst offender for banging it blindly on the boot (and with air). Harmes, who would have guessed it from his early days, is possibly now our most composed mid in this regard. An extra Salem would be mighty handy.  

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

It's not the playing on part that's the issue per se, it's what happens after we play on, i.e. the disposal. So many disposals just don't make their target, so then ... turnover, and it's off to the races. Weideman has his shortcomings, sure, but watch how many times he works to position, only to see the ball sail over his head or land 10m in front.

The disposal has been [censored] but watch the first fifteen minutes v Fremantle again. We're not inherently capable of clean disposal - but by playing on at all costs the ball carrier puts himself under additional pressure and the intended receiver has less time to be in place/react. It equals poor disposal, and skill errors - dropped marks, poor defensive trapping etc. - at the next step. Yesterday's game wasn't an ordinary game of football, but something more along the lines of prison basketball. We just needed someone who could hold it up on occasion and control the tempo and I think we would have won.

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41 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Yesterday's game wasn't an ordinary game of football, but something more along the lines of prison basketball.

Great analogy Skuit.

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11 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

This site has a fair amount of hysterical schoolkid posters.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. 

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When Gawn was injured we were gawn. Did not see him jump for anything after that and wondered why they kept him on the ground?

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Cause if there's an opportunity to make an injury worse ..... We'll take it.

 

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Yesterday was the perfect illustration of the impact of injury and big numbers of  players having had interrupted preseasons.

The lions are a good team that deserves to be in the mix for a top 4 ladder finish at year's end. But a big factor is that they have had a dream run with preparation and injury.

They had a great preseason with few players not completing all sessions (which is a huge predictor of player form and team success as per misso's strategically leaked presentation to the board about our preseason  woes).

And they have had almost no injuries this season, with only 2 players currently on their injury list. Take say 8 of their best 22 out for most of the season and they are not making finals.

We have had precisely the opposite experience in terms of preparation and injury.

So no surprise we lost. And our situation makes any meaningful assessment of either goody's performance or our game plan difficult.

Personally I'm not concerned about either. 

But what I am concerned about is how many players we have on our list who are terrible kicks. It is a huge issue for us and one that has no clear fix. It was on full display yesterday. I could pick any number of players but three that come to mind are three of our best players - Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw. All wasted chances going forward and all helicopter the ball making it dead easy for defenders. A huge problem given they are our starting mid field.

Edited by binman
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48 minutes ago, binman said:

Yesterday was the perfect illustration of the impact of injury and big numbers of  players having had interrupted preseason.

The lions are a good team that deservesto be in the mix for a top 4 team. But a big factor is that they have had a dream run with preparation and me injury.

They had a great preseason with few players not completing all sessions (which is a huge predictor of player form and team success as per misso's stratecally leaked presentation to the board about our preseason  woes).

And they had almost no injuries this season, with only 2 players currently on their injury list. Take say 8 of their best 22 out for most of the season and they are not making finals.

We have had precisely the opposite experience in terms of preparation and injury.

So no surprise we lost. And our situation makes any meaningful asseeement of either goody's performance or our game plan difficult.

Personally I'm not concerned about either. 

But what I am concerned about is how many players we have on our list who are terrible kicks. It is a huge issue for us and one that has no clear fix. It was on full display yesterday. I could pick any number of players but three that come to mind are three of our best players - viney, Oliver and Brashaw. All wasted chances going forward and all helicopter the ball making it dead easy for defenders. A huge problem given rhey are our starting mid field.

Those excuses are starting to wear thin. Does an interrupted preseason cause tmac to drop a sitter in round 14?

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Fagan:  "...Melbourne, they want to get you into that contested ball environment because they believe that's where they play their best footy...that's the most pleasing thing … we were able to beat a fantastic contested ball team at their own game."

How many coaches have said similar this year: match them on the inside and we beat them on the outside/around the ground etc.  Defeat after defeat they are virtually telling Goodwin his version of a contested ball game plan doesn't work anymore.

Just don't understand why Goodwin is not listening.  Does he think he knows much better than the likes of Hardwick, Buckley and Fagan? 

If I hear the 'match them on the inside and we can win' mantra from an opp coach again, I will...I don't know what I'll do but good Lord something needs to change in the coaches box.

At what point do players, who hear this from opp when we lose, start losing faith in the game plan...?

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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7 hours ago, pinkshark said:

Why do some posters on here attack others for expressing their frustrations.  We are a rabble.  It is fact.  We have won 4 and lost 10.  Stuff the club at the minute.  They deserve every bit of criticism they get.  It's the way it works.  Everyone complicates things.  It's not [censored] complicated.  It's about winning.  When they lose like today, I and others like me, will always give them a spray.  Of course there are legitimate reasons as to why we are not as successful as last year but I am just tired of supporting them and don't wish to hear any more excuses.  It has always been fruitless.  Always.  It's heartbreaking.  And here is another simple truth:  we are a laughing stock in the AFL.  We are pitied.  Facts facts facts.  So to all the do-gooding, bright side of life, positivity finding, excuse peddlers that respond to my post in a patronising way please just spare me.  Keep your delusions to yourselves.  I am not deluded.  Our list is bottom 2, our position next year will be bottom 2.  The club is in strife.  Big strife.

Totally agree have followed the club since the 70s & they can’t sustain success & build on it .. somehow find a way to fall off the cliff! From prelim to bottom 4 is a disgrace & whilst injuries have been cruel it goes deeper than that with culture, leadership , development & recruiting . I’m afraid if this continues into 2020 goody want last & club will implode once again in its miserable 55 yrs of failure

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30 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Those excuses are starting to wear thin. Does an interrupted preseason cause tmac to drop a sitter in round 14?

Or the inability of the rest to hit a target by hand or foot.
Salem excused.

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11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Two key plays in the 3rd quarter which helped turn the game. Petracca fumbles a ball 15m out with a player free in the goal square. We throw away a simple goal.

Tmac drops a sitter 25m out on the lead uncontested. We throw away another simple goal.

Lions then kicked 3 goals in 5 minutes.

Agree with TMac that simple dropped mark was unforgivable. 

In regards to Trac the pass was directed straight at his feet so can forgive him for fumbling it. The pass should have been straight at his chest yet due to lack of skills AGAIN it was a bad pass. 

The skill level of this team is appalling for professional footballers. It’s the worst in the afl. 

Auskick teams have better skills than us atm. 

If we can fix the skills and that’s a big if we would be a good team but we have been waiting a while for this to happen so don’t hold your breath. 

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They didn’t just beat us, they smashed us in contested ball by 27. Probably one of the biggest differentials we’ve seen against us recently. I do agree with Goody’s comments about us staying in the game with counter attacking goals and that being an ‘unhealthy’ way to play but how does he learn from it? We can’t rely on the hope of winning contested ball each game and the rest sorting itself out. Inside 50 forward tackles were 7-6 their way. They didn’t generate scores from forward pressure, the lack of accountability up the field was a killer. 33 shots from 63 inside 50s compared to our 20 from 59. 

Our defence worked hard to clear the ball but our lack of poise moving the ball forward (Salem and Jones excused) was evident all day. Another frustrating game to watch, especially watching the Lions clear their defensive 50 with ease and watching two to three of their players sitting in the centre square alone for their counters. How often have we seen that this year?

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1 hour ago, binman said:

Yesterday was the perfect illustration of the impact of injury and big numbers of  players having had interrupted preseasons.

The lions are a good team that deserves to be in the mix for a top 4 ladder finish at year's end. But a big factor is that they have had a dream run with preparation and injury.

They had a great preseason with few players not completing all sessions (which is a huge predictor of player form and team success as per misso's strategically leaked presentation to the board about our preseason  woes).

And they have had almost no injuries this season, with only 2 players currently on their injury list. Take say 8 of their best 22 out for most of the season and they are not making finals.

We have had precisely the opposite experience in terms of preparation and injury.

So no surprise we lost. And our situation makes any meaningful assessment of either goody's performance or our game plan difficult.

Personally I'm not concerned about either. 

But what I am concerned about is how many players we have on our list who are terrible kicks. It is a huge issue for us and one that has no clear fix. It was on full display yesterday. I could pick any number of players but three that come to mind are three of our best players - Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw. All wasted chances going forward and all helicopter the ball making it dead easy for defenders. A huge problem given they are our starting mid field.

Yep.

Reminds of when Richmond had the dream run of barely having anyone on their injury list back in 2017.

 

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Not enoufh appreciation for Nathan Jones. I thought with him and Salem were our best ball user off half back.

If he keeps this form up i can see him turning into a Jarred McVeigh type for us off half back.

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44 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

How many coaches have said similar this year: match them on the inside and we beat them on the outside/around the ground etc. 

??? None that I'm aware of.

Oh hang on, I'm not Simon Goodwin.

In fact, every coach or every club has said that. Every coach & every player at every club knows how to play us. Except for us.

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8 hours ago, pinkshark said:

Why do some posters on here attack others for expressing their frustrations.  We are a rabble.  It is fact.  We have won 4 and lost 10.  Stuff the club at the minute.  They deserve every bit of criticism they get.  It's the way it works.  Everyone complicates things.  It's not [censored] complicated.  It's about winning.  When they lose like today, I and others like me, will always give them a spray.  Of course there are legitimate reasons as to why we are not as successful as last year but I am just tired of supporting them and don't wish to hear any more excuses.  It has always been fruitless.  Always.  It's heartbreaking.  And here is another simple truth:  we are a laughing stock in the AFL.  We are pitied.  Facts facts facts.  So to all the do-gooding, bright side of life, positivity finding, excuse peddlers that respond to my post in a patronising way please just spare me.  Keep your delusions to yourselves.  I am not deluded.  Our list is bottom 2, our position next year will be bottom 2.  The club is in strife.  Big strife.

I guess if its a healthy sign that the players vent and vituperative against each other according to the coach then like wise it would be healthy for the fans to vent and vituperate at our pathetic no show this season.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Those excuses are starting to wear thin. Does an interrupted preseason cause tmac to drop a sitter in round 14?

Yes. Sort of. In so far as has he has pointed out himself his poor form is confidence related which i suspect is directly related to having had an interrupted pre season and carrying an injury.

And interrupted preseasons and injuries is not an excuse for poor form. It is a reason. The same reason the Tigers are struggling this year.  

Edited by binman

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11 hours ago, Garbo said:

I felt Jetta was on the decline even prior to his injury this year, I would be surprised if we went on after next year, we desperately need a small defender and a small fwd of quality 

Disagree Garbo! Jetta will find the going a bit easier with better support around him - Lever, May, a vastly improved Frost and a developing Hore  (!).  He was too often left with a very unsuitable match up.

Provided of course we can keep them all on the paddock.

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50 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Not enoufh appreciation for Nathan Jones. I thought with him and Salem were our best ball user off half back.

If he keeps this form up i can see him turning into a Jarred McVeigh type for us off half back.

Agree. He has been good in that role the last couple of weeks.

A tad slow but has been reliable hitting targets which is just so critical, particularly when other defenders so regularly turn it over. He s also good in in congestion and traffic as is often the case down back and the HB role also plays to his ability to win contested ball (whereas the wing position doesn't and also exposes his lack of pace more).

I know Hibberd is coming back from injury but i have to say i'm a bit worried about where he is at. If he does drop away Jones can take his spot, if and when Jetts come back in. 

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1 minute ago, binman said:

Agree. He has been good in that role the last couple of weeks.

A tad slow but has been reliable hitting targets which is just so critical, particularly when other defenders so regularly turn it over. He s also good in in congestion and traffic as is often the case down back and the HB role also plays to his ability to win contested ball (whereas the wing position doesn't and also exposes his lack of pace more).

I know Hibberd is coming back from injury but i have to say i'm a bit worried about where he is at. If he does drop away Jones can take his spot, if and when Jetts come back in. 

Agree.. saw signs from the Collingwood practise match of his downfall. 

I think this is where i feel maybe we go back to having Jayden Hunt as our running defender. Hibbereds dash is brcoming minimal and we need someone other then Frost to provide more run.

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Believe it or not, there were some encouraging signs.

Attacking handball freeing up space.

Players seemingly conscious of not all piling in to a contest so some could hang back if the ball came out.

Low hard kicks to teammates.

Attempts to be creative inside 50 & not just bomb long.

Of course that all dropped off when the screws were turned. Then came the discouraging signs.

Forwards who can't get their hands on the pill. Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

God we were inept in that last quarter (and last few mins of the 3rd). It's a football crime to be that clueless and ineffective.

 

Anyone see that every single time we came near or even breathed on any Bris player with the pill, he would immediately go to ground. They are obviously coached to do this. It's ballshyt. Other clubs do it too but Bris seem to have turned it into an art form. Players that flop at first touch should be deemed to have had prior and if they don't get rid of it, it's holding the ball. But of course it's always a ball up instead. Players (from all sides) will even happily drag the ball back into a scrum and hardly ever get penalised for it. The umpire dept of the AFL are suckers.

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Did we get a free kick after half-time? I’m sure I looked at the stats at half-time and we were on 13 frees. Just had a look and we ended up on the same amount, I could be wrong. 

Edited by Ethan Tremblay
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