Mid-season Coaching Revamp

[Salems Lot 2,354]

20 hours ago, Jaded said:

Well done to the club for being proactive. All I want is to not waste them last 10 rounds. And they haven’t. 

Thrilled Rawlings is back. Wasted in the VFL he is an excellent line coach and can only help our horrible forwardline’s form. 

Absolutely; workmates are already making cracks about us tanking...good grief....

[P-man 13,154]

This is great and all, but I was amazed at Lewis revealing some coaches were not in the positions for which they were originally appointed and it was decided out of the mid season review that it wasn't working.

My reading of that is we decided to allocate people to positions for which they weren't best suited, and then were surprised when it didn't produce optimum results.

On the surface this looks like little more than rectifying sheer incompetence.

The season is shot to bits so it's all a bit too little too late, but it's good to have Rawlings back among the seniors coaching fold. Lewis could not speak highly enough of him on 360.

 

[GM11 679]

3 minutes ago, Salems Lot said:

Absolutely; workmates are already making cracks about us tanking...good grief....

Maybe you can remind them where that kid Rowell is going if Carlton finish last.

[Sorry kids 635]

5 hours ago, The Chazz said:

Just trying to work all this out.  Mahoney being groomed for the CEO role, didn't get it.  Pert got it.  Mahoney then becomes the new GM of Football, a role where he is the boss of the entire football department.  Within months of him overseeing this role, there is a mid-season review of the FD operations, leading to a number of changes.

The non-football department side has seen record memberships and movement toward setting up a new home/training base.  2 big ticket items to make us a financially sustainable club off the field.

With all the above in mind, are we now appreciative that Mahoney isn't running the entire club?

Could you elaborate on movement towards setting up a new training base.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

11 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Nothing to do with halfway through the last year. The most important part of Misson's year is the off-season. He'll be gone in August. It's now June.

As for the rest ... yes, standard practice, e.g.:

" ...  it’s best for the outgoing ED to disengage from the organization for several months, if not a full year, even in cases where the board desires his or her continued involvement."

https://murdocktrust.org/prepare-executive-transition/

Would have thought managing injuries and in-season training was just as important as the off-season, especially when that's when everyone is on holidays for part of it? He has also been giving weekly reports during the season so I would assume then that he's got important things happening.

As for the article you've quoted, Misson is not an ED or CEO, and, as mentioned in my last post, there is no successor currently announced, so he has been moved to a different appointment without someone filling his role. Pretty clear what that means. In terms of relevant precedence, Peter Jackson didn't step away from his role half way through his last year.

Misson himself obviously didn't see this coming, and certainly wasn't planning on being out by August:

"I'll do the whole season, I'm not going over until mid-December this year, so it will be business as usual really for me in terms of my role at Melbourne," Misson said.

Source here

[bing181 8,149]

Re the forward line:

"We're just looking to get some continuity, to getting guys used to playing together and working together, primarily. There's maybe a few things we'll put a higher emphasis on, but I'm not the panacea to the success of the forward line.

Jade Rawlings

[Sorry kids 635]

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

well done...

actually going to a member of the causality of this fiasco

Peter Jackson did many great and mercurial things for this club and we are mostly the better for them all. That said Football as such wasnt his forte...Administration WAS. Initially PJ simply left Football to Roos. But with his departure and shall we say some interesting turns of events within the FD it basically became infested with a new-boys club accountable to only themselves.

Mahoney can take a bow for much of this mess. Jackson was WRONG to think he JM could run this club...he cant run the FD successfully. I for one will not be sorry if he's a casualty in this.

Even if this was not Pert''s initiative it's only happened because hes there. 

I listened to Mahoney on SEN today and was horrified to hear him say he thought we had Jessie Hogans departure covered. It implies a good run of a month or so from young Wiedemann was enough to convince an entire footy department that Hogan would not be missed and we would not need to recruit another forward. More so when you think of what we had invested in Jessie and had him earmarked as a once in a generation forward.

[DeeSpencer 23,051]

7 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

I listened to Mahoney on SEN today and was horrified to hear him say he thought we had Jessie Hogans departure covered. It implies a good run of a month or so from young Wiedemann was enough to convince an entire footy department that Hogan would not be missed and we would not need to recruit another forward. More so when you think of what we had invested in Jessie and had him earmarked as a once in a generation forward.

- Tom McDonald was the star key forward last year. 50+ goals and got the best defenders.
- Melksham and Petracca were both very good medium options, Joel Smith was shifted forward as another difficult match up
- Hannan, Spargo, ANB did their jobs well and we recruited more small and flanker options

Hogan v top 8 teams last year - 6 games, 8 goals  (3, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1) and 26 marks
Weideman v top 8 teams last year -  6 games, 8 goals (0, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1) and 30 maks

Hogan has had 2 excellent games this year surrounded with a lot of ordinary ones. At this stage he is miles off a once in a generation forward. In fact he has been miles off tracking like that since his first or second season.

The Weid hasn't come on but has shown good signs the last two weeks. There's still good reason for optimism that he becomes a very handy player.

Tom McDonald going from a guy who kicked 53 goals in 20 games to a pumpkin is the real issue.

[Sorry kids 635]

5 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

All this is very interesting to me. As I reported on the Monday training thread I had a chat to McCartney, the background is he put his jacket on the fence near me and my wife and quipped he was going to get these guys fired up as he walked out to run a series of drills where he ran them pretty hard and it looked like a good session to me. He then came over to pick up his jacket and his first words were these guys just don’t understand it yet, their young but they have to train harder and stop taking shortcuts, you play how you train, great sides set high standards they have to understand that. 

My take on his comments at the time were that the playing group (and by inference the leading players) is not setting the bar high enough at training, thinking after last year, that it is all just going to happen. 

Given that Macca looks like he has been sidelined, I am thinking his opinion is at odds with the other coaches and it seems the players as he was clearly a bit pizzed off, now I know why. 

 

EH, understanding you are a lay person, but did you see any signs of what was frustrating Macca with the guys performance. I wonder if it is part frustration that the guys have just stopped listening to him personally. Wasn't there some divided opinion when he was at the Bulldogs. Its a tough gig motivating and putting kids on the right path on any area of endeavor. Just look at Stevenson at the Pies who has ruined his run of good form with a stupid meaningless bet of which he said he did not know the consequences. In his case he either did not understand the consequences of betting or did not take note because of who and how the message was delivered.

[Sorry kids 635]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

- Tom McDonald was the star key forward last year. 50+ goals and got the best defenders.
- Melksham and Petracca were both very good medium options, Joel Smith was shifted forward as another difficult match up
- Hannan, Spargo, ANB did their jobs well and we recruited more small and flanker options

Hogan v top 8 teams last year - 6 games, 8 goals  (3, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1) and 26 marks
Weideman v top 8 teams last year -  6 games, 8 goals (0, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1) and 30 maks

Hogan has had 2 excellent games this year surrounded with a lot of ordinary ones. At this stage he is miles off a once in a generation forward. In fact he has been miles off tracking like that since his first or second season.

The Weid hasn't come on but has shown good signs the last two weeks. There's still good reason for optimism that he becomes a very handy player.

Tom McDonald going from a guy who kicked 53 goals in 20 games to a pumpkin is the real issue.

Well I must have had it wrong that we bent over backwards to get and retain Hogan as the lynchpin of our forward line. As for banking on Joel Smith, please.... ANB is a battler, Petracca is not a very good forward by elite standards. Spargo, Hannan NQR, and I question that TMac always got the best defenders. Finally the proof is in this years pudding.

[Red But Mostly Blue 3,611]

I know it looks like we are scrambling to rectify errors we shouldn't have made (if you accept some of these guys shouldn't have been in their role, as intimated by Lewis), but at least we're doing something. We could easily have played out the rest of the year doing the same old thing (the true Demon way).

Rawlings back is great. He won't solve the forward problem, but his presence might be a boost to the boys, and a different view of things might lead to some change.

[Lucifers Hero 36,973]

56 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Re the forward line:

"We're just looking to get some continuity, to getting guys used to playing together and working together, primarily. There's maybe a few things we'll put a higher emphasis on, but I'm not the panacea to the success of the forward line.

Jade Rawlings

Would have preferred he kept the "I'm not the panacea to the success of the forward line" to himself.  Everyone is looking to him to fix the forward line problems but he thinks he is not the panacea ie not the solution.  Isn't it his responsibility to develop and implement solutions. 

He also said:  “I’m looking forward to working with the players and try to have a higher conversion rate. If we can achieve that in the back-half of the year I think our supporters and people in here will be much happier.”  Someone should tell him that there are 52,000 members who will not be much happier with a higher conversion rate if we don't win games.  But hey, sounds like it will make the club (the people in here) happy. 

Possibly, just poor choice of words but I find those comments deflating.  These are difficult times and it would behove club reps to engender some positivity and confidence for fans, if for no other reason to get them to go to games. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[DeeSpencer 23,051]

3 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Well I must have had it wrong that we bent over backwards to get and retain Hogan as the lynchpin of our forward line. As for banking on Joel Smith, please.... ANB is a battler, Petracca is not a very good forward by elite standards. Spargo, Hannan NQR, and I question that TMac always got the best defenders. Finally the proof is in this years pudding.

We consistently struggled to score against good sides last year with Hogan. 
v Richmond
v Hawthorn
v Collingwood
v Sydney despite stacks of inside 50's.

The forward lines best games against good sides were v WCE, GWS and the first 2 finals with the Weid.

We didn't bend over backwards to retain Hogan. He was contracted for this year, we could've held him to that. We recognised the opportunity to improve the backline and that the forward line functioned without him. I absolutely stand by that decision as the right one. 

[Red But Mostly Blue 3,611]

Also, why is this thread nearly 50% focused on Garlett?

The topic is "Mid-season coaching revamp", not "Mid-season coaching revamp/beef with Garlett"...

[DeeSpencer 23,051]

2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Would have preferred he kept the "I'm not the panacea to the success of the forward line" to himself.  Everyone is looking to him to fix the forward line problems but he is saying he is not the panacea ie not the solution.  Isn't it his responsibility to develop and implement solutions.  In the world I worked in if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. 

He also said:  “I’m looking forward to working with the players and try to have a higher conversion rate. If we can achieve that in the back-half of the year I think our supporters and people in here will be much happier.”  Someone should tell him that there are 52,000 members who will not be much happier with a higher conversion rate if we don't win games.  But hey, sounds like it will make the club (the people in here) happy. 

I admire his frankness but these are difficult times and it would behove club reps to engender some real confidence for fans, if for no other reason to get them to go to games. 

Panacea doesn't simply mean solution, it means universal cure, magic bullet etc. 

The players are going to have to do the work to solve the problems, Rawlings can only guide them. That's being realistic and sharing responsibility rather than having an ego. 

A higher conversation rate will result in more wins if the rest of the side can continue to do what they've been doing or improve. Coming out and promising wins is foolish. 

Bill Belichick might be the best sports coach on the planet and his motto is 'Do your job'. All our coaches need to do is spell out what they want from the players and hold them to that. An assistant coach hyping the fans? Come on.

[Earl Hood 5,787]

21 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

EH, understanding you are a lay person, but did you see any signs of what was frustrating Macca with the guys performance. I wonder if it is part frustration that the guys have just stopped listening to him personally. Wasn't there some divided opinion when he was at the Bulldogs. Its a tough gig motivating and putting kids on the right path on any area of endeavor. Just look at Stevenson at the Pies who has ruined his run of good form with a stupid meaningless bet of which he said he did not know the consequences. In his case he either did not understand the consequences of betting or did not take note because of who and how the message was delivered.

SK the drills run by Macca on Monday looked OK to me, yes a few players slipped over but it was damp, a few missed their targets and players dropped some marks but overall I thought the standard was good albeit in near perfect conditions. My wife is a Hawthorn supporter and this is the first time she has seen us train, her thoughts after Macca’s comments were that there was a lack of intensity in the drills as compared to what she has seen at Waverley occasionally. But does intensity vary between a Monday session, then ramp up mid week and down again for last run before a game? I don’t know. Does the lack of competition for places due to injury play a part in how players train? I will have to walk up the road and look at the Pies one day to see if there is a difference there. 

[Sorry kids 635]

8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We consistently struggled to score against good sides last year with Hogan. 
v Richmond
v Hawthorn
v Collingwood
v Sydney despite stacks of inside 50's.

The forward lines best games against good sides were v WCE, GWS and the first 2 finals with the Weid.

We didn't bend over backwards to retain Hogan. He was contracted for this year, we could've held him to that. We recognised the opportunity to improve the backline and that the forward line functioned without him. I absolutely stand by that decision as the right one. 

So by your admission the forward line functioned without Jessie for four games last year. Enough for you and the footy department that has just been revamped because of abject failure in scoring among other things decide that there is no need to replace an 80 odd game 165 goal young forward. 

[Sorry kids 635]

3 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

SK the drills run by Macca on Monday looked OK to me, yes a few players slipped over but it was damp, a few missed their targets and players dropped some marks but overall I thought the standard was good albeit in near perfect conditions. My wife is a Hawthorn supporter and this is the first time she has seen us train, her thoughts after Macca’s comments were that there was a lack of intensity in the drills as compared to what she has seen at Waverley occasionally. But does intensity vary between a Monday session, then ramp up mid week and down again for last run before a game? I don’t know. Does the lack of competition for places due to injury play a part in how players train? I will have to walk up the road and look at the Pies one day to see if there is a difference there. 

Thanks, great information. The last thing I want to do is cut the guys slack on their performances but how do you think they feel about training at Goschs paddock compared to the Hawks at Waverly and other clubs who walk straight out of state of the art facilities onto a home ground.

[beelzebub 22,225]

36 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

Tom McDonald going from a guy who kicked 53 goals in 20 games to a pumpkin is the real issue.

its a symptom only...not THE issue

[DeeSpencer 23,051]

5 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

So by your admission the forward line functioned without Jessie for four games last year. Enough for you and the footy department that has just been revamped because of abject failure in scoring among other things decide that there is no need to replace an 80 odd game 165 goal young forward. 

Why are you assuming Hogan wasn't replaced? Hogan was replaced by Weideman for this year, just as he was after injuries last year. 

The forward line failures are far more to do with McDonald's form, Melksham's injury and the fitness/skill of the mids kicking it inside 50. 

[DeeSpencer 23,051]

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

its a symptom only...not THE issue

Yes fair, but of all the player problems he's a clear number 1 (with Melksham number 2). He led the forward line like an All Aus level CHF last year and is now lucky to be getting a game. I'd much rather have Tom right than have the Hogan trade back. Quite frankly I'd be shocked if many on here disagree with that.

[Sorry kids 635]

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Why are you assuming Hogan wasn't replaced? Hogan was replaced by Weideman for this year, just as he was after injuries last year. 

The forward line failures are far more to do with McDonald's form, Melksham's injury and the fitness/skill of the mids kicking it inside 50. 

Agree to disagree. Hogan has a better goalkicking average at MFC than both Russell Robertson and David Schwatz. Our loss, lets see how the rest of the year plays out. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,973]

28 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Panacea doesn't simply mean solution, it means universal cure, magic bullet etc. 

The players are going to have to do the work to solve the problems, Rawlings can only guide them. That's being realistic and sharing responsibility rather than having an ego. 

A higher conversation rate will result in more wins if the rest of the side can continue to do what they've been doing or improve. Coming out and promising wins is foolish. 

Bill Belichick might be the best sports coach on the planet and his motto is 'Do your job'. All our coaches need to do is spell out what they want from the players and hold them to that. An assistant coach hyping the fans? Come on.

Of course he isn't the magic bullet but sure as hell he needs to be the main part of the solution.  There was a hint of disclaimer in 'not the panacea'.

Rawlings' role is more than to guide players.  His job is to analyse the problems, develop solutions and communicate them for players to implement.  The players can only work to solve problems if he gives them a plan and process to follow. 

I didn't suggest he promise wins but to say fans will be happier with a better conversion rate shows lack of awareness of fan expectations.  He is better off not referring to conversion rate at all if that is the best we can look forward to.  Find something more positive to say.

Do you really mean this: "All our coaches need to do is spell out what they want from the players and hold them to that".  What if what the coaches want is not what works?  Players have played their hearts out and 2019 certainly looks like what the coaches want doesn't work.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[beelzebub 22,225]

33 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Yes fair, but of all the player problems he's a clear number 1 (with Melksham number 2). He led the forward line like an All Aus level CHF last year and is now lucky to be getting a game. I'd much rather have Tom right than have the Hogan trade back. Quite frankly I'd be shocked if many on here disagree with that.

Tommy Mac represents a big problem at our Dees

He has issues ( fitness/medical)  he was persisted with when clearly it was the wrong path. He wasn't the only one. We've run players into the concrete( gosch's ) 

What i do agree with wholeheartedly is that he should have been the cover,but we stuffed up, yet again.

The idea suggested that we had Hogan's departure covered imho was reasonable.  that it fluffed  was due to incompetency of our FD.

That things have gone awry isn't surprising to this reader

[P-man 13,154]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Tom McDonald going from a guy who kicked 53 goals in 20 games to a pumpkin is the real issue.

And therefore, the amount of faith placed in him was/is an issue. One season was not a sufficient sample size to be placing all our eggs in the T Mac basket.

We did not replace Hogan (along with the multitude of other failings) and we have suffered as a result.