2019 List Changes

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

I've just updated the Contracts thread and posted my thoughts on possible list changes. 

It may be a bit early but given our season is done it is relevant to look at possible changes.

The Contracts thread:

 

My thoughts on list changes that I posted in that thread:

I'm guessing we will lose quite a few Rookies. 

Its hard to see a lot of the primary list players who are OOC this year getting an extension.  My thoughts:

• Baker, Frost, Weideman will get new contracts.
• J. Wagner, Garlett, J. Smith are 'maybe' depending on assessment of depth.
• Stretch, Neal Bullen, Kennedy Harris at real risk of going.  They have been on our list for 4-5 years and not able to cement a regular 22 spot.  Can only keep them for so long.
• Lewis, Maynard gone.
• Jones - not sure.  Will challenge the list management team:  Nostalgia vs value add vs keeping a younger player out of the team/out of position.

We will get some good draft picks this year: a top 10 and a high second round pick so a chance to get some high end talent and skills.  Time to refresh.

[whatwhat say what 18,793]

yeah, it's an interesting time, particularly as you say for those mid-age players like stretch, anb and jkh - only possibly the middle one may be trade bait

i personally think that with lewis a near-certainty to go that jones gets a reprieve, unless he a) chooses to go elsewhere or b) retires

i would guess, from the senior list:

• baker - new deal (two years)
• garlett - gone
• frost - new deal (two years)
• jones - new deal (one year) / retire
• jkh - new deal (one year) / gone
• lewis - retire
• maynard - gone
• anb - new deal (two years) / trade bait
• j smith - new deal (one year) / retire
• stretch - gone
• weideman - new deal (two or three years)
• j wagner - gone / downgraded to rookie list

and the rookies:

• chandler - new deal (one year)
• dunkley - new deal (one year)
• keilty - gone
• lockhart - new deal (two years, upgraded to senior list)
• t smith - gone
• c wagner - new deal (one year)
• bradtke - new deal (one year)
• walker - gone

that'd leave minimum of four senior list spots and four rookie list spots, i think, before any trading even begins?

[ArtificialWisdom 3,844]

I'd be surprised if any of Garlett, Lewis and Maynard got extentions. Lewis I suspect would retire anyway. JKH I'd like to see play in the second half of this year but ff he doesn't impress then it's time to pull the pin on him too. Stretch is right on the borderline but I think when we are up and about he is good outside depth. 

Everyone else I'd keep on 1/2 year deals, the exception being Frost who I'd he happy to see sign for 3 or 4 years cementing a Frost - Lever - May key backline for the next 4 years would be a good outcome in a disappointing year

This year we saw what happens when you lose too many depth players at once, all of Tyson, Vince, Pederson, Bugg and Kent would have played so far this year if they were still on the list. Change is necessary but we don't want to throw everyone out at once.

Edited May 28, 2019 by ArtificialWisdom

[dazzledavey36 48,647]

Wouldnt be suprised if Joel Smith asks for a trade

[whatwhat say what 18,793]

13 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wouldnt be suprised if Joel Smith asks for a trade

unfortunately i don't think he has any value whatsoever and any club who was 'in his ear' would be telling him that they'll pick him up as a delisted player

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

21 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wouldnt be suprised if Joel Smith asks for a trade

 

7 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

unfortunately i don't think he has any value whatsoever and any club who was 'in his ear' would be telling him that they'll pick him up as a delisted player

That's correct, unless he gets a good run in the second half of the year, other teams will have no reason to pursue him. Doubt he'd even get a go as a delisted free agent because he's only played the 11 games but been injured in a couple of those as well. plus he didn't come through the junior pathways so hasn't got that to fall back on. I think he'll stay and they'll patch things up with his old man, just hoping he can get a decent run at it because I think there's a fair bit he can add to the team.

[Diamond_Jim 11,679]

It's probably a play off between Stretch and JKH. Assuming Maynard goes we need at least one back up mid.

Stretch should get say another 2 games and then JKH can have a run of 5 or 6 games.

I'd love to see them both make it but alas .......

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

I could see Frost being trade bait. If May and Lever come back and play the way we know they can, we'd then have Frost, Hore, OMac & Petty fighting for what could be only 1 or 2 spots a week. Given the other 3 are contracted for next year and all younger it might be that we look at what we could get for him? 

The only certainties I see of the out of contracted players are - Frost (if not traded) Weid, Lockhart, Baker, Bradtke & ANB. Jones, Stretch, JSmith, Dunkley & Chandler are more than likely to get another go, while Garlett, Lewis, Maynard, TSmith are likely to be gone and the other might have to wait right until the last list date to see if we still have spots. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

4 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

It's probably a play off between Stretch and JKH. Assuming Maynard goes we need at least one back up mid.

Stretch should get say another 2 games and then JKH can have a run of 5 or 6 games.

I'd love to see them both make it but alas .......

Yes, it is always sad to lose players but as you say that is the reality of AFL life.

We have a long line of back up midfielders/on-ballers amongst recent recruits:  KK, Jordon, Nietschke, Sparrow, Baker, Lockhart and Dunkley.  We need to develop these guys over the next year or two and see who will make it. I feel ANB, Stretch and JKH have had their chances (and each has significant weaknesses) so its time to give the new guys their chances. 

[poita 3,573]

Assuming Dunkley shows some promise I'd keep him and one of C.Wagner & Lockhart, probably Lockhart. Bradtke aside, the rest of our rookies are gone.

Of the listed players:

Keep: Frost, Neal-Bullen, Baker, Jones, Weideman (although he'd want to pull his finger out to get a decent contract)

Undecided: Stretch, Kennedy-Harris, J.Smith (possibly only keep one of Stretch and JKH, depending on draft picks)

Gone: Lewis, Garlett, Maynard, J.Wagner (although I expect he will get a new deal)

PS. How did Vandenberg get a three year deal with his injury history, and why did Spargo get a third year?

[dazzledavey36 48,647]

16 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I could see Frost being trade bait. If May and Lever come back and play the way we know they can, we'd then have Frost, Hore, OMac & Petty fighting for what could be only 1 or 2 spots a week. Given the other 3 are contracted for next year and all younger it might be that we look at what we could get for him? 

The only certainties I see of the out of contracted players are - Frost (if not traded) Weid, Lockhart, Baker, Bradtke & ANB. Jones, Stretch, JSmith, Dunkley & Chandler are more than likely to get another go, while Garlett, Lewis, Maynard, TSmith are likely to be gone and the other might have to wait right until the last list date to see if we still have spots. 

Why Frost? He has exceptional this year. Yeah has the occasional brain fade, but makrs up for it with his dash and ability to want to tak risks.

Oscar should be the one gone. Got towelled up by Himmelberg to the point where they actually had to move a first year player in Marty Hore onto him. Adds absolutely nothing to this teams whatsoever. 

Frost, May and Lever are my chosen tall backs. May to get the number 1 forward, Frost the 2nd and Lever for the 3rd. Hore to play that roaming intercept defender which then frees up Hibberd to play as a run and carry defender.

[whatwhat say what 18,793]

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Why Frost? He has exceptional this year. Yeah has the occasional brain fade, but makrs up for it with his dash and ability to want to tak risks.

Oscar should be the one gone. Got towelled up by Himmelberg to the point where they actually had to move a first year player in Marty Hore onto him. Adds absolutely nothing to this teams whatsoever. 

Frost, May and Lever are my chosen tall backs. May to get the number 1 forward, Frost the 2nd and Lever for the 3rd. Hore to play that roaming intercept defender which then frees up Hibberd to play as a run and carry defender.

because he has more perceived value

worth remembering we gave up pick 23 for him

god our trading of picks for players has been.......what's another word for atrocious?

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

I would expect we will free up 7-10 primary list spots.  In part to keep the list refreshed but also because the game rules have changed. 

To refresh the list: we have not drafted a top 25, 18 year old for at least 3 years.  We will probably have 2 top 25 picks this year, more if we trade out a very good player or trade up later picks.  Time to bring in some talented youth.

Regarding rule changes.  List management decisions are a function of the game plan.  We have recruited for a competitive, see ball, get ball, get rid of ball as fast as possible game plan.  So we have many similar style players:  mid sized, ball getters.  This year the new rules have shown that game plan is not sustainable; it needs to change and we need to inject some skill and mobility.  So hopefully, in the second half of this year our game plan is redefined.  

I would not be surprised to see some of the 2020 OOC players traded out to accommodate a more flexible game plan and young talent.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

27 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Why Frost? He has exceptional this year. Yeah has the occasional brain fade, but makrs up for it with his dash and ability to want to tak risks.

Oscar should be the one gone. Got towelled up by Himmelberg to the point where they actually had to move a first year player in Marty Hore onto him. Adds absolutely nothing to this teams whatsoever. 

Frost, May and Lever are my chosen tall backs. May to get the number 1 forward, Frost the 2nd and Lever for the 3rd. Hore to play that roaming intercept defender which then frees up Hibberd to play as a run and carry defender.

As WWSW said, it's all about value. Frost is currently worth something and isn't contracted. OMac, Hore and Petty are contracted, they are all younger that Frost as well so should have some development in them. We've played much of the year with 2 talls and Hore, so it might be seen that when May and Lever come back there's 4 guys looking at 1 spot, so they could move on 1 of them. 

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

22 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

because he has more perceived value

worth remembering we gave up pick 23 for him

god our trading of picks for players has been.......what's another word for atrocious?

Ironically the guy who GWS picked with 23 ended up on our list (Pat McKenna).  

[Damo 2,970]

This is going to be a very subjective thread by Demonlanders. I really cant see why someone would choose Stretch who has been given plenty of opportunities to Joel Smith who has been badly injured by Nick Riewoldt and then hampered by groin trouble. 

[At the break of Gawn 3,474]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I've just updated the Contracts thread and posted my thoughts on possible list changes. 

It may be a bit early but given our season is done it is relevant to look at possible changes.

The Contracts thread:

 

My thoughts on list changes that I posted in that thread:

I'm guessing we will lose quite a few Rookies. 

Its hard to see a lot of the primary list players who are OOC this year getting an extension.  My thoughts:

• Baker, Frost, Weideman will get new contracts.
• J. Wagner, Garlett, J. Smith are 'maybe' depending on assessment of depth.
• Stretch, Neal Bullen, Kennedy Harris at real risk of going.  They have been on our list for 4-5 years and not able to cement a regular 22 spot.  Can only keep them for so long.
• Lewis, Maynard gone.
• Jones - not sure.  Will challenge the list management team:  Nostalgia vs value add vs keeping a younger player out of the team/out of position.

We will get some good draft picks this year: a top 10 and a high second round pick so a chance to get some high end talent and skills.  Time to refresh.

Jake Lever has only just turned 23 - he’s not 26. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

2 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Jake Lever has only just turned 23 - he’s not 26. 

The age is at the end of respective player's contract.

[bobby1554 1,132]

Chunk definitely gets another year. Anyone going to begrudge him a chance to get to 300 games?

[one_demon 826]

Surely Jones can't go around next year.  The only position he can play is inside mid, and that's locked out.  We've been trying to hide him all year.

Edited May 28, 2019 by one_demon

[What 18,810]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wouldnt be suprised if Joel Smith asks for a trade

Misson is leaving,   so hopefully Smith stays.

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

1 hour ago, bobby1554 said:

Chunk definitely gets another year. Anyone going to begrudge him a chance to get to 300 games?

I don't begrudge him another year if his selection is based on form but no guarantee of games.  If he earns selection for 14 games (at least) to get him to 300 great, if not so be it.

His 2020 selection should not put at risk a top 4 finish and a chance at the premiership or someone like Brayshaw played out of position or someone like Baker or Lockhart denied games.  

To me he retires this year or gives up the co-captaincy, gets one more year and if his form warrants he is selected.  If not he plays in the VFL as Clarkson did with Roughy also a much loved champion, ex captain and loyal servant of his club. 

It may sound ruthless but it is what professional clubs do. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Diamond_Jim 11,679]

1 hour ago, bobby1554 said:

Chunk definitely gets another year. Anyone going to begrudge him a chance to get to 300 games?

The Jones that we saw on Sunday against GWS doesn't get another year. The level of injuries means we don't have to debate the "Drop" word at present but it's time to begin thinking about the question.

How it is handled will be a measure of our maturity as a club.

[Sorry kids 635]

1 hour ago, bobby1554 said:

Chunk definitely gets another year. Anyone going to begrudge him a chance to get to 300 games?

Club bigger than the individual.

[whatwhat say what 18,793]

jones is one of most consistent midfielders; if he wants to play on he should get another year

he's having a better year than anyone outside of gawn, harmes and (borderline) oliver