POSTGAME: Rd 10 vs GWS

[Robbie57 1,990]

Pre match texted a mate to say we had a Casey team playing. Lucifer nailed it we dont have AFL Standard players to put on the park. 11 of our starting 22 injured. You see it every year that a team with that level of injuries is not competitive. 

[Redleg 37,447]

5 minutes ago, Robbie57 said:

Pre match texted a mate to say we had a Casey team playing. Lucifer nailed it we dont have AFL Standard players to put on the park. 11 of our starting 22 injured. You see it every year that a team with that level of injuries is not competitive. 

And in the end, instead of completely capitulation like in years gone by, we hung in and had our best quarter in weeks and lost by only 4 goals.

If we are realistic, on paper the teams suggested an 80 point win to the Giants.

My God Corey Wagner was on Kelly at times, Lockhart on Whitfield etc.

Get real people.

The real disappointment is the lack of skill across the list. What summed up the whole game for me was the Lockhart pass late in the game to Viney who had a 193 cm player next to him and then the kick went high up in the air. Seriously?

[Kent 2,574]

10 hours ago, pinkshark said:

You spelt his name wrong.  It's J.E.S.S.E  H.O.G.A.N

12 disposals no goals or points  

56 fantasy points you are correct he would fit right in at the dees again.

[PaulRB 5,897]

Undermanned, playing a polished top four team.

got away with a modest defeat when it should have been far worse...

Bring Salem, May, Lever, Jetta, Hibbard, Hannan, Melksham and Vandenberg back and we compete with the best again.

While this season may be lost, all is not.

Edited May 26, 2019 by PaulRB

[poita 3,571]

I thought we showed something in each of the past four weeks, but yesterday's effort was abysmal. A massive step backwards in every respect. GWS are a good side and thoroughly outclassed us, but they completely outworked us as well.

The Giants' first three goals summed us up beautifully - Spargo gives away 50 because he was off with the fairies as usual; Baker gives away a free kick down the ground because he was playing behind and was undisciplined after the ball had gone; Fritsch lobs a lazy, ill-directed kick out straight to a GWS player.

Goodwin had yet another shocker at selection and on game day. Preuss is no star but he works hard, gives Gawn a chop out and gives us something different to play with up forward. The Spargo selection was the worst of a bad season - a poor footballer recalled off no form and no fitness. Why Lewis did not replace Salem is inexplicable. Brayshaw and Fritsch have been destroyed by being played out of position all season. Nothing was done to break Oliver's tag. McDonald and Petracca were not moved up the ground until the game was done. 

Lockhart, Wagner x2, Spargo and Smith are so far out of their depth at this level it is beyond a joke. They'll tease occasionally with a decent touch or two, but go missing when the heat is on. Garlett is soft and lazy. With these guys in the team we start six players short even before others have a bad day. Petty and Baker should be developing in the VFL but at least they generally try. At one stage in the second quarter we had Spargo and Wagner x 2 on the bench - GWS had Coniglio, Whitfield and Kelly resting up, and we were still getting absolutely flogged.

Gawn was excellent, but had no support. Viney and Harmes at least looked interested for a bit. Hore was the best of a poor defence, and the less said about our forward line the better.

[pinkshark 935]

6 minutes ago, Kent said:

12 disposals no goals or points  

56 fantasy points you are correct he would fit right in at the dees again.

Short memory mate.  He kicked 40 odd goals for us each year.  FMD.  We're not missing that?

[leave it to deever 15,128]

12 hours ago, lucifer said:

last year was the anomaly, not this year. 

I'm also not usually the one for positivity. I don't think the above is being an optimist, I think it's just a reason

Our injuries are huge and for the most part the reason we lost.

What concerns me many of the players you mentioned like anb,hibberd,jetta and weid have been playing way below their best.

Also premiership teams usually have the ability to cover a high ammount of injuries. 

Obviously not as high as ours but what this year has highlighted for me apart from good players going backwards which you mentioned is our lack of depth .

We have too many  average players and few ageing ones. Jkh and Lewis are 2 in your list. Most were playing  yesterday. 

[pinkshark 935]

10 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

These are two major issues that need to be worked on.

How often did a GWS player take a mark inside 50 on a lead, with our defender trailing them? And how often did it feel like our forwards could get no separation on their GWS defenders?

Only Hunt was regularly getting away from his opponent and he took three or four good leading grabs.

But is it chicken or egg - are we seeing lack of separation from forwards because they are having the ball delivered behind them or above their head, as opposed to out in front of them to their advantage?

Our kicking going inside 50 isn't improving.

Agree to an extent.

GWS' superior foot speed was evident today - so many times players like Kelly and Whitfield were able to break free from stoppages and get clearance on our mids.

But generally, we looked much quicker last week with 20 of the same players playing this week.

The game was much more on our terms last week - we were winning CPs and clearances. Today GWS beat us in the middle and, as is too often the case with us, if you beat us in CPs/clearances the rest of our game falls apart.

You mean the same Jesse Hogan who played all four quarters today against Brisbane and didn't get a single kick?

Meanwhile Dean Kent had 14 touches and zero tackles. 

Yeah the one who kicked 40 odd goals for us each year.  But you are probably right, he's clearly no good.

[At the break of Gawn 3,473]

8 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

I heard this but I don't think it's right.Brayshaw was one of the main reasons behind our terrible start to the season. His disposal was horrific and he pays little respect to his opponents and does not run hard defensively. For someone who came in to the AFL and was an elite tackler, he is now a poor tackler. 

When they switched him into the midfield today, you could see why he should be. The goal Josh Kelly kicked from the centre clearance  which was highlighted in the telecast showed how poor he is defensively.

He is devoid of confidence now, it appears they wanted him to work on some areas of the game and it has backfired.

I’m not sure if it’s a chicken or the egg thing but I also think Jones on the wing was a major contributor to our poor start due to his lack of pace and also his lack of assistance in defence. 

Brayshaw, Oliver and Viney in the middle were our key ingredients to a good 2018. Jones needs to either be dropped or moved to half forward.

I’d put Harmes on a wing. He’s quick and he uses it well most of the time. 

Viney to go head to head with the opp’s best mid. Viney was at his best when he was playing shut down roles but also getting his own ball. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by At the break of Gawn

[Lucifers Hero 36,973]

A real worry for me is Tom Mc.  He has improved in recent weeks with a couple of goals.  Nonetheless, he doesn't get separation from his man to mark, nor is he able to bring the ball to ground and let the small forwards go to work. 

Has he lost the ability to jump?  Also, did he fail to make the distance with a shot for goal from about 40m yesterday?

I know the mid field is bombing it in but Tom should at least bring the ball to ground if he can't mark but he rarely is in a position to do so. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[poita 3,571]

16 hours ago, Farmer said:

Well, bugger it! It's boring to set this out but some of you need to read it. Add the  following to the team and what does it look like? Hibberd, Jetta, Salem, May, Lever, Hannan, , Vandenberg, Koladjasni , Joel Smith, 

Hibberd is 30 in January, and has generally been terrible this year. Jetta has been carrying a knee injury for at least 12 months, so blame the club for his current absence. Salem is a big loss. May is fat and lazy, and no guarantee of improving the side even if he gets fit. Lever is massively overrated on these boards, but will at least add some leadership. Hannan is a fringe player who was dropped several times last year. Kolodjashnij is all but done as an AFL player. Smith has played 11 games in five years and is yet to prove he can be a consistent AFL player. 

Yes, these players are individually better than the guys who have replaced them, but there is enough talent in the current team that they should be performing much better than we saw yesterday. I don't think that getting players back will automatically fix the problems we clearly have.

[Stevienic23 1,023]

Basic 1 percenters that become momentum shifting is what does me in. In the first qtr himmelberg kicks a goal that goes through 2 meters high as Max has been bumped off the line. Two mins later Mcdonalds shot from 45m out doesn't make the distance and is touched on the line and there's no one there to shepherd it through. 

Later on I think in the 2nd, when they're all over us and by right should have been 10 goals up. Viney takes a mark and has the look of 'Im captain I'll take responsibility and kick this goal' and he misses and they go down the other end and kick the next 8. 

I know we have injuries and have our $3 million backline out, but this is basic stuff and the 2 scenarios above (which there were many) fell on to our 2 'leaders'. 

Then there's skill execution, which is just going to drive me up the wall so I'll just leave it at this. We need to be aggressive and savage come trade time & bring in players that can use the ball. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,973]

To me we can't play two small forwards because there is at least one mismatch when the opp have only one small defender.  I counted at least four times yesterday when a highish kick went to Garlett who was pushed under the ball or the ball was punched away by a taller opponent.  Jeff had no chance to mark those. 

On Jeff, I think he has lost confidence after the sprays he received in his first game back when he took two low %age shots for goal instead of getting the ball off to a team mate.  Now, whenever he gets the ball he hesitates and looks for an alternate play rather than play on instinct.  As a result he has lost his x factor.

Nonetheless, I would take Jeff before Charlie every day of the week.

[waynewussell 4,081]

I've read everything this thread has to offer and have been looking for the take aways that are constructive... few and far between! I find slash and burn sentiments unhelpful easy to discard. It is clear that we are severely under-manned. However we have still been creating a competitive amount of scoring opportunities, until yesterday. Yes, one or two selection decisions were perplexing. It was only a week ago that our team produced a fantastic effort against the odds in Perth. Don't be blind to the efforts of individuals when the scoreboard is showing a dismal result.

Jack Viney threw everything at forcing the ball in our direction in the second half. This may not have been represented in the statistics, but should have been apparent to any observer at the ground. Josh Wagner was one of our best throughout the first half but is always branded as not up to AFL standard here. Blind prejudice in my opinion. He lacks a little polish but is as brave as they come. He is a handy back-up when the 'stars' are out of the team. Credit where credit is due peeps!

On reflection, we could/should have selected Lewis to replace Salem. We could/should have selected Preuss instead of (name your player). We could have taken a risk on Hannon... But really, not much more than this available.  

I think we should be taking a closer look at how things transpired in the final quarter. I put it down to play on at all costs... which meant we were getting the ball into our forward zone before the Giants could set up their defensive structures.

Talking about zones... what about Ray calling a head high free from 70 metres away... The replay exposed that decision as extremely speculative. Now, when RAY was adjudicating in his own zone, he blatantly refuses to pay Ollie a free for being smacked in the gob whilst standing 5 metres away. Incorrect disposal doesn't exist for GWS, at least to umpire 14, who then pays a mark to a GWS player which clearly skidded off the MCG turf into his arms. 

 

[waynewussell 4,081]

3 minutes ago, poita said:

Hibberd is 30 in January, and has generally been terrible this year. Jetta has been carrying a knee injury for at least 12 months, so blame the club for his current absence. Salem is a big loss. May is fat and lazy, and no guarantee of improving the side even if he gets fit. Lever is massively overrated on these boards, but will at least add some leadership. Hannan is a fringe player who was dropped several times last year. Kolodjashnij is all but done as an AFL player. Smith has played 11 games in five years and is yet to prove he can be a consistent AFL player. 

Yes, these players are individually better than the guys who have replaced them, but there is enough talent in the current team that they should be performing much better than we saw yesterday. I don't think that getting players back will automatically fix the problems we clearly have.

In the words of Bob Dylan, "I don't believe you...", I won't continue with what Bob said next but

• Hibberd has not been generally terrible this year. He did struggle early but was definitely on the up at the time of injury
• I don't blame the club for Jetta's absence
• May is not fat and lazy
• Lever is no more overrated on these boards than by the All Australian selectors
• Hannon was not dropped several times last year
• KK is not all but done

[Kent 2,574]

51 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Short memory mate.  He kicked 40 odd goals for us each year.  FMD.  We're not missing that?

He actually averaged 32 per year and didn't want to play for us. 

Your point being?

[Deemania since 56 6,119]

15 hours ago, DemonOX said:

Is Pert still at the club????

if he is you wouldn’t know it. 

Who? 

[Moonshadow 16,099]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

12 disposals no goals or points  

56 fantasy points you are correct he would fit right in at the dees again.

Yep. Hogan averaging 15 disposals, 1 tackle and less than a goal per game this year.

Not the messiah they thought he was going to be

[Green Demon 766]

"Are you a member?" is what the bloke said when I tried to get past some seated spectators in M51, to get to seats near where my friends were sitting. I had waited till the first goal of the game, so I would not disturb anyone. For whatever reason, this bloke seemed to think it was within his rights to question why I was going to sit in the Melbourne FC reserved seats. I  told him I have been a member for 20+ years. Finally, he let me through. What ignorance! I am minding my own business and some bloke wants to take his frustration out on me. This isn't what I go to the footy for. I had my 10yo son with me. It isn't what my 10yo needs to witness. After we sat down, I took our 2019 members scarves out of my backpack.

[loges 5,992]

1 hour ago, waynewussell said:

In the words of Bob Dylan, "I don't believe you...", I won't continue with what Bob said next but

• Hibberd has not been generally terrible this year. He did struggle early but was definitely on the up at the time of injury
• I don't blame the club for Jetta's absence
• May is not fat and lazy
• Lever is no more overrated on these boards than by the All Australian selectors
• Hannon was not dropped several times last year
• KK is not all but done

Good response, but I do wish people would stop puting KK in their best 22, he hasn't shown that yet.

[At the break of Gawn 3,473]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

A real worry for me is Tom Mc.  He has improved in recent weeks with a couple of goals.  Nonetheless, he doesn't get separation from his man to mark, nor is he able to bring the ball to ground and let the small forwards go to work. 

Has he lost the ability to jump?  Also, did he fail to make the distance with a shot for goal from about 40m yesterday?

I know the mid field is bombing it in but Tom should at least bring the ball to ground if he can't mark but he rarely is in a position to do so. 

Yep, Tmac just doesn’t have the pace to get separation from his opponent. Hunt is the only one which is why Goodwin has tried to isolate from time to time.

We actually really need a Jeremy Cameron sort of player who is quick off the mark. 

Petracca has burst pace and could do it but he often fluffs his set shot which renders it useless. 

[jnrmac 18,913]

Who was playing on Himmelberg?

[jnrmac 18,913]

3 hours ago, waynewussell said:

 

Jack Viney threw everything at forcing the ball in our direction in the second half. This may not have been represented in the statistics, but should have been apparent to any observer at the ground. Josh Wagner was one of our best throughout the first half but is always branded as not up to AFL standard here. Blind prejudice in my opinion. He lacks a little polish but is as brave as they come. He is a handy back-up when the 'stars' are out of the team. Credit where credit is due peeps!

After Wagners 4th clanger in the first half I turned it off. He must have played brilliantly after that.

[pinkshark 935]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

He actually averaged 32 per year and didn't want to play for us. 

Your point being?

My point is simply that we miss his presence and 2goal per game average.  It's not acknowledged as much as it should be.  When he played 20 games at least he kicked over forty.  Every time.  So I think we miss him more than Dean Kent, who I was actually a fan of.

We all get a bit testy here on this thing when [censored] hits the fan.  Looking forward to a 6 game winning streak.  Hang in there Kenty.

[waynewussell 4,081]

16 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

After Wagners 4th clanger in the first half I turned it off. He must have played brilliantly after that.

I'm delighted to bring you up to date on Wagner. His 22 possessions was 9th best on the day... that's 9th best taking all 44 players into account. We acknowledge that he lacks polish, but there is a lot to like, a lot that is coachable. He gives a contest and does not shrink back into his shell under pressure. He keeps at it, gives his all, every time. Yes, we have better players in his position. When they are all fit he is likely to find his way back to VFL ranks, however, we are fortunate to have players who will play their role and contribute when called upon.