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Looking Forward 2020 & Beyond

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Well the positives were that Lever and May appeared to play well and can give us some confidence in the backline.

The midfield failed again. I would like to see Oliver reduce his handball numbers and increase his kicking numbers.

The goalkicking is a concern but I suspect it's a confidence issue.

Petracca is pleasing.

Still want to see some gameplan changes. Perhaps the chaos footy is affecting our skill level.There is no denying at this level the footballers are skilled but they may not have the time under this gameplan to execute those skills.

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7 hours ago, Ausrak said:

image.png.32e8b60252f7ebd12fe2c3181c159092.png

 

1) Haven't got a read on Jones yet

2) Lewis will retire

3) No chance Spargo goes

4) Trade Brayshaw? must be joking

5) Agree on Stretch 

6) I think Kolo is on a 2yr deal

7) Agree on Maynard 

8-  Agree on JKH

9) No chance Oscar goes. Need KPD depth 

10) Undecided on ANB, was very good last year 

11) Agree on Garlett

12) Agree on T-Smith

13) Agree on C.Wagner 

14) Agree on Lockhart 

 

I'd add to delist J.Wagner and Guy Walker 

Also explore trading Petracca for the right deal

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34 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Positives to take from the year:

1. Found a gem in Hore 

2. Harmes is a star

3. Salem also a star

Agree, and I think you can add Baker to that list. He looks as composed ball in hand as anyone in our side (which admittedly isn't that hard)

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1 minute ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Agree, and I think you can add Baker to that list. He looks as composed ball in hand as anyone in our side (which admittedly isn't that hard)

yeah, not fully sold but I like Baker's game thus far. Actually thinks before using the footy

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Wouldn't give up on KK.

Let's see what the next 6 weeks at Casey show and then perhaps the last three games at senior level if warranted.

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You cannot get rid of Maynard, JKH and Stretch unless you want to decimate the mid field depth.

One or two need to stay... they are depth

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9 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Agree, and I think you can add Baker to that list. He looks as composed ball in hand as anyone in our side (which admittedly isn't that hard)

Mine are 

Baker   needs more  games but looks good

Hore   still a lot to learn, willing to learn

May    will be very good

Dunkley  will debut this year.

We need to add at least 4 more who can be best 22 for next year.

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8 hours ago, Ausrak said:

image.png.32e8b60252f7ebd12fe2c3181c159092.png

 

I love a good spreadsheet.

I think people are jumping the gun on Jones, good back up if we lost a clearance midfielder like Oliver or Viney. He should step down as captain and play mostly for Casey next year.

Spargo, CWag and ANB are all flawed players but I think we can have their uses. We can usually carry 1 of them in the side when we are playing well. 

Trade Brayshaw?? HA that's a good one. He, Harmes and Oliver are our best mids. Unless we are trading him for a star I wouldn't consider it.

Stretch, Maynard, JKH, Garlett. Agree, all are done. So with Lewis that makes 5 list spots.. I think that's a good at starting point

KK needs a run at it before we throw him away. Like Diamond said, give him a long run at Casey then a go in the 1s

OMac and TSmith are good depth players I think. Frankly I think TSmith deserves to be on our 22 right now, better him then TMac who looks unbelievably far off.

Also Lockhart: good call, shows promise

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7 hours ago, Dr.D said:

I'm sorry but you dont fluke 53 goals. 

the whole team is just devoid of confidence and that all falls on goodwin

agreed... we seem to be bombing the ball on his head, he is not the big strong pack mark... he is either not working hard enough to find space, doesn't have confidence in his mids to deliver the ball to him, or his fellow forwards arent helping out with blocks for him to find room. 

Tmac is a great forward, just needs to be used properly. 

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Lets be honest, we are every chance to get the Wooden spoon. So Pick 1 is a blinding reality. We need to somehow get 2 picks inside the top 10. So how does that happen.

Who is tradeable.. who will get us a top 10 pick? is everyone tradeable? is Brayshaw someone who will get us a top 10 pick? might he get us 2 picks, a first rounder and a second rounder?

Before everyone says  I am an idiot, have a think about it.. we are not trading Oliver, or Gawn, Trac wouldn't get us a top 10 pick..  the reality is, we dont have anyone else.

Also, i am off Angus right now, i think he is a care free footballer who is tarding on a good year last year, so its pretty raw at the moment. Obviously i dont want to trade him, but its just an excercise in stock.. its thin.

 

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47 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Wouldn't give up on KK.

Let's see what the next 6 weeks at Casey show and then perhaps the last three games at senior level if warranted.

Watching kk earlier in the year and his last half for casey against collingwood he needs to work on fitness. Leave him at casey, work his guts out, full pre season and hit the new season giving him the best chance to play good footy.

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5 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Lets be honest, we are every chance to get the Wooden spoon. So Pick 1 is a blinding reality. We need to somehow get 2 picks inside the top 10. So how does that happen.

Who is tradeable.. who will get us a top 10 pick? is everyone tradeable? is Brayshaw someone who will get us a top 10 pick? might he get us 2 picks, a first rounder and a second rounder?

Before everyone says  I am an idiot, have a think about it.. we are not trading Oliver, or Gawn, Trac wouldn't get us a top 10 pick..  the reality is, we dont have anyone else.

Also, i am off Angus right now, i think he is a care free footballer who is tarding on a good year last year, so its pretty raw at the moment. Obviously i dont want to trade him, but its just an excercise in stock.. its thin.

 

If we get pick one why not trade it for 2 early picks? Unless the top 3 are absolute standouts and what we need(not another one string contested onballer)

Its worked for us before, tyson made us instantly better, salems coming on and hunts a bonus. We now have Preuss through tyson now too. While id love kelly, we were apparently after billings, out of the first 9, kelly and bont were the only one that would make you think about it in hindsight. 

1. Tom Boyd

2. Josh Kelly

3. Jack Billings

4. Bont

5. Kk

6. Matt Scharenberg

7. James Aish

8. Luke Mcdonald

9. Salem

10. Nathan Freeman

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3 minutes ago, scarlett said:

If we get pick one why not trade it for 2 early picks? Unless the top 3 are absolute standouts and what we need(not another one string contested onballer)

Its worked for us before, tyson made us instantly better, salems coming on and hunts a bonus. We now have Preuss through tyson now too. While id love kelly, we were apparently after billings, out of the first 9, kelly and bont were the only one that would make you think about it in hindsight. 

1. Tom Boyd

2. Josh Kelly

3. Jack Billings

4. Bont

5. Kk

6. Matt Scharenberg

7. James Aish

8. Luke Mcdonald

9. Salem

10. Nathan Freeman

We cant trade our first pick. So its going to be used, P1, 2 or 3 at this stage. 

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Made it to the game for the first time yesterday this year, being out in country vic with young kids makes it hard. It crystallised a few thoughts. Firmly in the 'Don't overreact but be disappointed camp' by the way.

Hogan out hurts, not even from an output point of view. My thoughts are that he provided confidence to players, and sheltered them from responsibility, he was examined more than most if we had a poor game in terms of scoring. The whole forward half is adjusting to this in 2019, taking one step up each, the slow start hasn't let them build confidence that they can fill the shoes of the one above them last year. This has played out in our connection moving forward and I think our goal kicking lately. Goals feel precious and hard earned, the pressure to kick them is amplified and it is playing on minds of footballers low on confidence anyway.

Tmac is endemic of this. He is still working hard, but his decision making or forward craft is severely compromised at the moment. Its partly not having played alot forward, and hardly ever as the main man. Each time someone was about to kick where he was leading he changed directions. When a player kicking was under pressure and had no way to carry and break the line he lead backwards. When there wasn't room to lead forward he lead forward and got chopped off because he had to take slow steps.

Others manifest this forward of the ball with a lack of cleanliness. I'll use Spargo here to demonstrate. He was clean last year, one of his most endearing qualities. It meant he capitalised. He just isn't quite at the moment. Along with a host of others. This is playing out in the midfield with kicking as well. Skills are just a fraction off. Or at least the consistency of there execution is. It is a trust in self and trust in others things.

The good news for me is all of this is eminently fixable. It is too late for this year I think but the games coming home are incredibly important, they are all winnable. We have played probably 4 of the top 6 teams this year over the last month. There ability to pressure and affect our execution is why they are good teams. And with a bit of luck we could have won 1 or 2 of them. I still have faith in this list and the direction. We've a chance to add some more quality over the next off season, but I wouldn't be searching for too much change. Things need refinement, players need confidence. But we don't need to start over. We have all the raw ingredients for a flag push. Get them working well, get them focused and invested. Keep looking for opportunities to add to the mix, in terms of personal, ideas and method. You have to be lucky to win a flag, it doesn't mean you change everything after each attempt. Even if they do go badly. Learn, reset, adjust and go again. 

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I was very pleased with May and Lever yesterday. Started slow, but you would expect that. Both did well as the game went on. Also i've liked the look of Baker since he came in. Makes a few inexperienced errors but he's got something about him. Marty Hore will be our player of the season most likely. 

Not pursuing a Tom Lynch deal now looks like it's killed us. It's nice we have so many good players down back when fit. But our midfield and forwards have no link up and it results in the defence getting put under enormus pressure constantly with quick turn arounds. I think it should be noted how good our defence did yesterday. Pies kicked 9 straight in the last 2 qtrs which blew the margain out, so the full story of how well they stood up never got shown.

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1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

We cant trade our first pick. So its going to be used, P1, 2 or 3 at this stage. 

I thought the rule was you must use a first round pick? The afl can also approve trades.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Reevesy said:

Firmly in the 'Don't overreact but be disappointed camp' by the way.

Great post... we are lucky in that we have the next ten odd matches during which we should challenge every player not to mention the coaching staff.

Edited by Diamond_Jim

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1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

We cant trade our first pick. So its going to be used, P1, 2 or 3 at this stage. 

The Tyson trade was a massive mistake apologies to Salem. 

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23 minutes ago, scarlett said:

I thought the rule was you must use a first round pick? The afl can also approve trades.

You may be right Scarlett..

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, scarlett said:

I thought the rule was you must use a first round pick? The afl can also approve trades.

 

9 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

You may be right Scarlett..

Correct we must use a first round pick but it need not be the original one based on ladder position.  It can be traded for one or more lower first round picks or lower 1st round pick + player. 

For example if our final ladder position is around 4 pick and the players in that range are promising midfielders which we have plenty of so we are happy to trade it down.  We  could trade that pick for one in the 8-10 range plus a high second round pick. This would give us 4 picks in the top 25 instead of 2.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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Club must show imagination in this last half of the season.

 

Viney needs another string to his bow.  Expect a stint up forward with manic pressure and helping split Weed and TMac to different parts of F50.

Find out ANB is the real deal.  Put him onball and see what happens.  

Might have to see how May goes forward in a few games.  Can the club afford to bank on Weed and TMac in 2020?  We need an insurance policy.

Hibberd wing.  Can't believe he has only had 1 go at tagging a gun mid, and pantsed him for memory.

Jones HBF.

Play Lockhart.

Keep Joel Smith away from our medicos.  What a loss he has been?

McCartney coach and Goody running?

Rock bottom...no ideas left.

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Just want to throw this one out there....

What would we seriously get for Petracca? I’m not looking for picks but a player. I don’t see him as damaging and think his disposal is average at best. For someone his size his tackling is also questionable. 

I ask the question because I see his situation the same as Watts. Trade him now and get something decent in return or hold in anticipation and it becomes a gamble.

When we went on a mini run late last year (Eagles/Giants/Cats/Hawks) I didn’t see him as the catalyst. 

Reading the post match discussion there are comments ranging from 

- His best game of the year

- Did some good things.

- A C- for his efforts today. 

- He’s being held back by the coach. 

Like Watts we are continually waiting for him to tear a game apart. I personally don’t think he has it in him, I’d like to be wrong. Now the season is over play him permanently on ball, he’s not a fwd. He had the perfect opportunity to take a couple of burst steps and nail a goal but instead hack it fwd supposedly under coaches instructions. 

Its all well and good to throw up mock scenarios of the type of player we need, but we do need to give someone up. Petracca is not a game changer.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Lets be honest, we are every chance to get the Wooden spoon. So Pick 1 is a blinding reality. We need to somehow get 2 picks inside the top 10. So how does that happen.

Who is tradeable.. who will get us a top 10 pick? is everyone tradeable? is Brayshaw someone who will get us a top 10 pick? might he get us 2 picks, a first rounder and a second rounder?

Before everyone says  I am an idiot, have a think about it.. we are not trading Oliver, or Gawn, Trac wouldn't get us a top 10 pick..  the reality is, we dont have anyone else.

Also, i am off Angus right now, i think he is a care free footballer who is tarding on a good year last year, so its pretty raw at the moment. Obviously i dont want to trade him, but its just an excercise in stock.. its thin.

 

We could get a pick between 10 - 20 for Petracca. Probably about the same for Angus if we’re brutally honest.

I would seriously look at trading out Petracca if it means we can lure a Ben Brown or Jon Patton to the club. 

You’ve got to give to get. I would trade the Petracca pick and our 2020 first rounder for Brown. Change the whole complexion of our side.

Edited by Matsuo Basho
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Posted (edited)

I would put Viney on the trade table and try to get a first rounder back. 

He doesn’t add much that other players don’t do, and is injured the rest of the time.

Rare species to be seen inside a 50m arc as well.

Edited by olisik

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32 minutes ago, olisik said:

I would put Viney on the trade table and try to get a first rounder back. 

He doesn’t add much that other players don’t do, and is injured the rest of the time.

Rare species to be seen inside a 50m arc as well.

So hes all that according to you, yet you actually still expect a 1st rounder?

Ok.......

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