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Wells 11

Concerned about Jack

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To state the obvious, he’s a heart and soul player clearly playing injured. Whether those injuries are of the  long term ,perhaps career long,  foot or something else I don’t know. But whatever the cause his kicking has become a real liability. He gets neither penetration nor accuracy on his left anymore and let’s face it, he’s never really had a right. If he gets the ball in space the best he’s doing is sending it high to a 50/50. It almost nullifies how good he is on the inside. 

Also, when I see him giving interviews it’s like he gives nothing of his real self. Perhaps protecting himself and towing the party line steadfastly. When I watch him I do wonder, when Jones steps back eventually,  if viney will be the type of leader that inspires . No one could ever question his commitment nor his guts , and I’m probably going to roasted fr saying this,  but I’m starting to question his skill set as a future solo captain. 

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Has not set the world on fire for sure.

Max ius a good alternative I guess.

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not playing well but either is our whole team this year. 

I wished they slimmed him up over the pre-season so he would cover the ground better. seemed obvious to me.

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He played only 69% of the game so he is still being managed.   It is now 2 years of managing his injuries by not playing or managed game time.  Will he ever consistently play 75-80% like other mids?  I now wonder whether he will ever get to anywhere near his best or his potential.

And, at the risk of being shot down, I sometimes wonder if his name wasn't Viney whether he would be co-capt at such an early age and whether posters would cut him so much slack in his poor performances which sadly are becoming more frequent.

 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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Kicking has always been a weakness of his - or maybe non-strength is a better word.

His inside contested work is elite, he’s very strong overhead for his size, and he works his arse off to get it on the outside when we’re running, even though he’s the slowest of all our mids. I think we have to be a little realistic with expectations; no player is going to be great in every aspect of the game. To me there’s no doubt Jack is a hugely important player to our game, and high up there with the least of worries.

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1 hour ago, Wells 11 said:

To state the obvious, he’s a heart and soul player clearly playing injured. Whether those injuries are of the  long term ,perhaps career long,  foot or something else I don’t know. But whatever the cause his kicking has become a real liability. He gets neither penetration nor accuracy on his left anymore and let’s face it, he’s never really had a right. If he gets the ball in space the best he’s doing is sending it high to a 50/50. It almost nullifies how good he is on the inside. 

Also, when I see him giving interviews it’s like he gives nothing of his real self. Perhaps protecting himself and towing the party line steadfastly. When I watch him I do wonder, when Jones steps back eventually,  if viney will be the type of leader that inspires . No one could ever question his commitment nor his guts , and I’m probably going to roasted fr saying this,  but I’m starting to question his skill set as a future solo captain. 

Viney has one way of playing and thats the crash and bash manic style which he tends to goe overboard with as theres time where he tries to just run through packs and gets done holding the ball. Needs to watch Joel Selwood and see how he got that balance right.

In regards to leadership, i have never rated him as a leader. Just hasn't really cut it for me over the years. I seriously cringe when he gives media interviews, stutters and slurs and sometimes he makes completely no sense whatsoever. Go back to his press conference a couple of weeks ago or watch him in general on the podcast.. its like nails going down a chalkboard. You need someone who represents your club in the media eye and Jack sucks.

Gawn for me is the one. I think Jones will step down at years end and in my opinion this title should be given to Gawn solely. 

Now if this bloke can get his body right and play good consistent chunk of games then Jake Lever will also make a very very good leader and potential future captain. Just oozes class in front of the camera and by all reports has all the future leadership traits of someone who's destined for this role.

Edited by dazzledavey36
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11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Viney has one way of playing and thats the crash and bash manic style which he tends to goe overboard with as theres time where he tries to just run through packs and gets done holding the ball. Needs to watch Joel Selwood and see how he got that balance right.

In regards to leadership, i have never rated him as a leader. Just hasn't really cut it for me over the years. I seriously cringe when he gives media interviews, stutters and slurs and sometimes he makes completely no sense whatsoever. Go back to his press conference a couple of weeks ago or watch him in general on the podcast.. its like nails going down a chalkboard. You need someone who represents your club in the media eye and Jack sucks.

Gawn for me is the one. I think Jones will step down at years end and in my opinion this title should be given to Gawn solely. 

Now if this bloke can get his body right and play good consistent chunk of games then Jake Lever will also make a very very good leader and potential future captain. Just oozes class in front of the camera and by all reports has all the future leadership traits of someone who's destined for this role.

Agree 100%

Viney has massive holes in his game, but what he does do he does very well.

Im not advocating for Viney to be dropped (Or suggesting anyone is) I am stating that like Brayshaw, this year they have both been found wanting for lack of speed, decision making and poor turnovers.

They are not alone but it is a big concern ..

 

The interesting thing is we looked a lot more balanced last night (A bit more pace in the side) and players like Viney and Brayshaw will be important for us.

If only Garlett and Trac could finish consistently (I'd almost throw him in the middle and find another forward (Hannan or Smith... please lets not have so many injuries..) and we could put 100 games in to Baker, Stretch, Petty, Hore etc... We would be a decent team again

 

Edited by Unleash Hell

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No way they’re going to take the captaincy off Viney unless he doesn’t want it.

Gawn will replace Jones as co-captain next year and Lever will be at the very least a co-captain in a few years if his knee holds up. Lever reeks of leadership.

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5 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

No way they’re going to take the captaincy off Viney unless he doesn’t want it.

Gawn will replace Jones as co-captain next year and Lever will be at the very least a co-captain in a few years if his knee holds up. Lever reeks of leadership.

I think u may be on the money BBP. I hope that jack isn’t made sole captain and that is a solution of kinds. If he’s always offset by someone else it could still work.

It terms of his form, I agree with others he still warrants his place but  it’s hard to watch him playing so far under what his potential used to be. May be as good as he gets now. 

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Jack has his deficiencies but he lacks nothing in courage and will to win. His foot is not good and will not get better. He will need to be managed for the remainder of his career however long that may be and I would always have him in my team.

 

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12 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Jack has his deficiencies but he lacks nothing in courage and will to win. His foot is not good and will not get better. He will need to be managed for the remainder of his career however long that may be and I would always have him in my team.

 

As captain?

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No issues with his game last night. Played restricted minutes and played forward as well as mid to protect his shoulder but he won important contests in the middle and forward, pressured well, and actively looked to handball rather than bomb kick.

Round 1: Shouldn't have played
Round 2: very good against a huge tide of Cats
Round 3: the only mid who could lay a glove on the bombers at the contest, beaten away from it
Round 4: a more defensive role but did a good job
Round 5: same as Essendon game
Round 6: excellent for a quarter/half then ran out of puff/injured
Rounds 8/9: doing a different role and contributing

He's not the player we want him to be right now but it's not panic stations after the last 2 weeks. Haven't seen him live but looks to be covering the ground and strong at the contest. If he stays healthy I think he'll bounce back. 

Ball use is obviously a concern but the whole team is completely out of sync going inside 50. There's no easy targets/easy decisions. Most AFL Players struggle to make good decisions under pressure. The whole point of team work and coaching is to set up players to make easy decisions. Viney, Jones and Oliver keep butchering the ball because there's no midfield runners or hit up forwards to catch their eyes. They should be better regardless but team work will make it easier on them.

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Jacks issue is he came with a lot of fanfare and expectation. He is very similar to his father as a player, courageous, respected by teammates and opposition players but only average disposal skills. Sometimes the extra game pressure makes those skills worse which turn him into  a goodish average player.  I am not close to the club but he ticks leadership skills for bravery, work ethic and courage but the question is is that enough in the modern era especially with runners access to the players now limited. I think Tom McDonald would be a better fit.

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I have nothing against Jack the player, he always goes in hard for the ball never shirks a contest and will give you all his will but as a captain I just look at how Cripps and how he leads his team and plays. Cripps has established himself a star and no one talks about Jack in that way. I feel Jack just needs to use the ball better. Last night was just a lot of rushed kicks. 

Im more concerned about Brayshaw and where his form and skill have gone 

Edited by dees189227

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Probably the most limited Captain going around. As said elsewhere has one attribute. Can get it but then, tries to beat tackle after tackle gets caught.Limited player should not be Capt!

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2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

No way they’re going to take the captaincy off Viney unless he doesn’t want it.

Gawn will replace Jones as co-captain next year and Lever will be at the very least a co-captain in a few years if his knee holds up. Lever reeks of leadership.

Yep, Lever is the one.

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I'm concerned about his injuries and managing them because I want 'top rate' Jack Viney out there, because at his best he is seriously A-grade.

Not too worried about his personality though.

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If Jack has long term injury concerns and his playing time has to be continually managed, I’d hope he would step down from the captaincy at the end of the year. 

Jack is still trying to play as if he were 100% fit, and trying to do too much when he gets the ball, when he should be playing to his injury  limitations. 

Unless he is 100%, he is no longer an inspiring captain playing this way. He may well need a push in this regard because I don’t think he is smart enough to realise this fact.

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2 hours ago, Wells 11 said:

As captain?

Maybe not looking at the longer term. His foot issue is serious and if Jones stands down I think it would be wise to name another co-captain.

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2 hours ago, picket fence said:

Probably the most limited Captain going around. As said elsewhere has one attribute. Can get it but then, tries to beat tackle after tackle gets caught.Limited player should not be Capt!

Poor. Very poor.  Give Jack a run without injury.  He is not 100% and will get better each week.  It’s a cheap shot given our year so far.  Tough and determined without question.  Beats more tackles than gets caught. 

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5 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

No way they’re going to take the captaincy off Viney unless he doesn’t want it.

Gawn will replace Jones as co-captain next year and Lever will be at the very least a co-captain in a few years if his knee holds up. Lever reeks of leadership.

As an aside, I can't believe many here were talking about putting May into our leadership group,  THIS year.

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