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3 hours ago, brendan said:

Harley Bennell would be a hell of a lot cheaper and if he can get back to his best, and that’s a big if but at his best he is twice as good as Martin 

If we're talking x factor too, Martin isn't even in the same street as Bennell. The latter has precisely what our midfield lacks, if as you say, he can get on the park.

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24 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

now if we can land martin, bennell and murray that would be a pretty good outcome.

Rather roll the dice on a cheap Bennell then an over priced Martin or a DH like Murray - tho a cheap Murray might be worth a roll too

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On 10/18/2019 at 11:52 PM, WERRIDEE said:

It would mean Stretch would be axed.

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: HIBBERD, PETTY, SALEM

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON

HF: MARTIN, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: MELKSHAM, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: JONES, HARMES, YOUNG, WEIGHTMAN

If Stretch is axed and we land Martin as a direct result of the FD reading and then acting upon your best 22 Werridee then i will fair dinkum kiss your [censored] blind folded! (Reluctantly but nonetheless happy in the knowledge our list has improved!).

Edited by Rusty Nails
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4 hours ago, brendan said:

Harley Bennell would be a hell of a lot cheaper and if he can get back to his best, and that’s a big if but at his best he is twice as good as Martin 

 

2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

If he can get his body right (work your magic Burgess), he walks all over Martin. A lot hungrier and more desperate to perform as well (seems to be).

 

1 hour ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Ideally I'd like us to go after both of them. 

Bennell is a massive unknown quantity and his manager didn't sound super confident about his prospects of playing injury free once more.

Having said that i wouldn't mind rolling the die on both if we have the space for Martin but tbh i reckon he isn't worth more than about 550k a year.  Also would need to put bennell through a serious trial test.

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7 hours ago, Uncle Fester said:

Rather roll the dice on a cheap Bennell then an over priced Martin or a DH like Murray - tho a cheap Murray might be worth a roll too

You want Bennell, but don’t want Murray because he’s a DH? That’s a pretty hefty double standard I would have thought.

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On 10/19/2019 at 2:17 PM, DeeSpencer said:

We have 2 ways to land Martin.

1) Convice him that we are a great fit for him, playing midfield as the handball receiver and swapping forward with Tracc.  Then he structures his contract in a way we can sign him.

2) Back all interest off and hope his manager and Carlton get complacent and don’t overly front load his contract. Then we quietly restructure existing players before pouncing on draft night.

I think we’ve tried option 1. Now it’s time for option 2. It’s going to require stealth and precision and still might not be possible. 

 

With player managers involved, this would never be possible.

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15 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

With player managers involved, this would never be possible.

I was going to say that. I don’t even know if it’s allowed. The only way would be to approach one particularly friendly manager who has multiple Melbourne players and an interest in screwing Carlton. Maybe you bump all the salaries for backending the deals and the manger therefore makes extra commission. 

Anyway, the point is we aren’t going to have a desperate public campaign to sign Martin. If he’s not immediately interested then it has to be done quietly. 

Edited by DeeSpencer
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Carlton shafted Jack Martin. They obviously went into discussions thinking that they would get him for spare change. GC were obviously burnt by Freo on the Weller trade and were not going to let it happen again - to that extent anyway. Desperate clubs often pay overs. Carlton obviously did not want him badly enough. Jack and his manager would be privately fuming - no doubt - he was shafted.

If he nominates preseason say $700k first year $250k second year its obvious draft tampering and the AFL will not allow it. If the Ds pass the AFL will likely investigate and fine us or worse for incompetence.

The only true test of his worth is the National Draft. Freo, Swans, Crows or North may well be interested with a pick in the 20s.

Its wait and see for us. Its suck it and see for the Blues.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Uncle Fester said:

Rather roll the dice on a cheap Bennell then an over priced Martin or a DH like Murray - tho a cheap Murray might be worth a roll too

You've got your head in the sand if you think AFL players don't do drugs, including Melbourne players (jack watts for example). Murray just got caught

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1 minute ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

You've got your head in the sand if you think AFL players don't do drugs, including Melbourne players (jack watts for example). Murray just got caught

Anyone remember Buddy's 8 week 'hammy' a few years ago?

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On 10/19/2019 at 12:43 AM, Lampers said:

A competently managed player list will always result in the flexibility to accomodate a player like Martin.

A team should aim to be x$ under the cap as a standing goal, and then pre-pay players once your list is settled to eat up the gap and be closer to the cap which then frees up future space.

You would only ever want to be at your cap without pre-payments if you were going hard for a premiership in that year. Collingwood could very well be in that spot for 2020.

If you bring in an Elliott or a Martin when you weren’t expecting to then you can’t do the pre payments to the same extent.

On top of this the AFL introduced further flex a couple of years back so a team can be under the minimum floor or over the maximum ceiling of the cap so long as it corrects itself on a rolling basis - meaning you can’t be forever under the minimum or over the maximum.

Interestingly GWS basically knew they would lose some of their top talent, so went with a unique approach that only they and Gold Coast could’ve done given their startup concession gluts of high draft picks all from the same year or tightly bunched for age profile. GWS project to exceed the cap but manage this through inevitably losing some of those high paid players but getting good picks in return to keep their list balanced for age profile, or having salary dump fire sales or letting free agents walk such as Scully, Tomlinson and Patton if they surprisingly retained more players than they anticipated (e.g. I expect they thought they would lose one or both of Kelly and Coniglio).

Yeah well your first sentence kinda summed up MFC Our list apart from about 6 or 7 is very average!!

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1 hour ago, manny100 said:

Carlton shafted Jack Martin. They obviously went into discussions thinking that they would get him for spare change. GC were obviously burnt by Freo on the Weller trade and were not going to let it happen again - to that extent anyway. Desperate clubs often pay overs. Carlton obviously did not want him badly enough. Jack and his manager would be privately fuming - no doubt - he was shafted.

If he nominates preseason say $700k first year $250k second year its obvious draft tampering and the AFL will not allow it. If the Ds pass the AFL will likely investigate and fine us or worse for incompetence.

The only true test of his worth is the National Draft. Freo, Swans, Crows or North may well be interested with a pick in the 20s.

Its wait and see for us. Its suck it and see for the Blues.

 

 

 Carlton offered a very good deal.  GC have academy kids coming through and future 2nd and 3rd is worth pick 13.   The issue is that AFL has given GC these extra picks and concessions, so they didn’t accept Carlton’s offer.

Stupid by GC.

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3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

 Carlton offered a very good deal.  GC have academy kids coming through and future 2nd and 3rd is worth pick 13.   The issue is that AFL has given GC these extra picks and concessions, so they didn’t accept Carlton’s offer.

Stupid by GC.

I think they basically used him as an example to say we’re not going to play ball all the time now. They already had the draft picks to not be worried about missing out on compensation. 

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I just hope we take advantage of this unexpected opportunity in the pre-season draft and are flexible enough to adjust our original plans to accommodate Martin.

There's no doubt he's an incredibly classy and quick midfielder and that's what we have all been crying out for because of our lack of outside run. It may be that he ends up playing on a wing and forces Goody to shift his thinking on Tomlinson a bit, but you don't give up quality when it stares you in the face.

The money should not be an issue given we already had enough room to make a major bid for Jamie Elliott.

The only issue is convincing him to want us more than Carlton and ultimately that's up to our coaching staff and key players to make him feel Gosch's Paddock is a great venue and that our environment is up to speed with most clubs. We also need our former Suns - May and KK - to take him out for coffee and make him feel at home.

We also should play what's left of our NT card - the Alice Springs trip is a highlight for our indigenous players who are beset upon and idolised by the locals.

I just hope we don't blow it. This is Josh Mahoney's time to shine!

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Martin has attributes of both Stretch and JKH. I wonder if discussions over the weekend prompted these decisions? Opens up two more spots in the list meaning we’re taking someone via means other than the national draft.

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If the deal offered by Carlton that seems to be public is true MFC could match it. 

makes me think there is a bit of Visy situation about this and that's why he's so keen to get there.

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3 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

If the deal offered by Carlton that seems to be public is true MFC could match it. 

makes me think there is a bit of Visy situation about this and that's why he's so keen to get there.

they have a good supply of brown paper bags

 

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39 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

We also should play what's left of our NT card - the Alice Springs trip is a highlight for our indigenous players who are beset upon and idolised by the locals.

I just hope we don't blow it. This is Josh Mahoney's time to shine!

We've done so much work in promoting the game in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island communities in NT, and Nev's consistently been recognized for his work outside of club time, if that's of any importance to Martin we should be well ahead of Carlton on that score at least.

Edited by ChaserJ
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Couple of things.

Firstly I want to know whether or not we were interested in acquiring his services over the trade period.

If we were, then why did he nominate Carlton as his club of choice? As far as money goes, I find it extremely difficult to believe the demonland speculation that he was "asking too much". What, more than we could match? 

How could Carlton afford to pay Papley (who was reportedly asking for more than we could afford) and Martin on top of Patrick Cripps, McGovern, Curnow and their younger list of budding stars that'll be worth more and more as each year passes? Are there posters here suggesting we are much tighter than Carlton salary cap-wise? Even with Lever and May on larger sized contracts, the difference can't be that great given the quality of lists. Or does someone genuinely know?

Martin is bonafide untapped talent. He can do things on a football field that others can only dream about. 

And in a sporting code that is now as turbulent and uncertain as ever year to year, I can't understand why we're not going hard for this guy. The whole idea that clubs need to 'bottom out' now is a myth. Nobody can predict injuries, attitude, the rise and fall of other sides. etc etc. Free agency and equalisation measures have forced change.

Premierships are there to be won any given year now for sides who can make the top 8.

We've been rebuilding for a [censored] eternity and I will be physically ill if I watch Carlton rise from the dust and overtake us next year due to being more aggressive, bold and ruthless as a club.

I'm excited by next year without a doubt, but there's air of conservatism still associated with our club that makes me extremely uncomfortable. Goodwin talks ruthlessness non-stop and it's time to be ruthless in all areas as a club.

We should be cutting Carlton's lunch by getting in Martin's ear and picking him up in the pre-season draft.

As Goodwin says, "the game owes you nothing".

Make it happen MFC. 

Edited by stevethemanjordan
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51 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

 

The money should not be an issue given we already had enough room to make a major bid for Jamie Elliott.

 

I'm on record as saying Martin is player i would like to see at the club.

But whilst we can no doubt afford him i don't think it is entirely true that money is not an issue.

If say we agree to pay him 700k a season it will immediately put him in say the top 5 players for salary. And that may create some issues if his teammates believe he is not worth that sort of coin, or they think they are worth more. Which might be an issue for morale but more pertinently might become an issue at the end of next season when a number of key players will be renegotiating contracts.

The players will have advanced notice of the plans to get Lever and may and so the logic for their high salaries would have been more evident. Both are likely future AA players (may might have been already?). It is a bit harder to argue the case for martin.

All that said i would be thrilled if we get him.

 

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I’m a bit the same. Would love to see what we can do with his x-factor in the side, but I don’t want to restrict our future ability to keep a solid list together by overpaying for unfulfilled potential.

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