Jack Viney and the medical staff...

[chook fowler 18,158]

4 minutes ago, bush demon said:

According to all the "Cliffs from Clematis" on here Jack is cooked. According to Ben Guthrie on AFL.com.au Jack has "an ankle" but will be right this W/E.

I hope he has two

[TGR 1,367]

4 hours ago, hemingway said:

Foot injuries can be easily diagnosed but difficult to know how long to rest. The injury can appear healed and then suddenly recur without warning.  Those who have had plantar know that you can think your right only to realise that the pain or discomfort can sometimes be only a step away. A little like achilles injuries. Rest and rehab are key components to recovery, but for a professional footballer or any sportsperson, rest is the saviour but also the enemy. The longer the rest the more chance of recovery but try telling that to anyone who has a burning desire to be back on the ground. It would take a brave coach or club doctor to say to a player that they will not be allowed to train or play for 12 months or more. Impossible. For most recreational sportsmen and women, surgery is the last resort whereas for professional footballers it is normal and expected. If you don't do it, Clubs will be criticised. Everyone will ask "why was something not done sooner" when for most of us, it is the last resort. One thing's for sure.  You should try and rehab the injury to avoid surgery, because if you embark on surgery, you still need to rehab afterwards.  Once you start limping, you know there is a problem that can't be remedied by pain killers. 

Foot injuries can be easily diagnosed but difficult to know how long to rest. Depends on who is diagnosing them.  If the diagnosis isn't A1, then it makes sense that one would have no idea about the rest variable.

 

The injury can appear healed and then suddenly recur without warning.  Disagree.  It will 'recur without warning' if the initial diagnosis is not spot on, and other treatment variables (healing time etc...) haven't been ticked off.

Those who have had plantar know that you can think your right only to realise that the pain or discomfort can sometimes be only a step away.   Well if your physio has just given you what is in vogue (glute strengthening and pilates) at the time, then you are likely to be a step away from relapse.

A little like achilles injuries. Rest and rehab are key components to recovery, but for a professional footballer or any sportsperson, rest is the saviour but also the enemy.   Invariably, rest is imperative.  Think about a broken bone, I don't give 2 hoots about the negative of rest, as if given a choice, give me rest.

The longer the rest the more chance of recovery but try telling that to anyone who has a burning desire to be back on the ground. It would take a brave coach or club doctor to say to a player that they will not be allowed to train or play for 12 months or more.  Didn't Viney rush back from foot surgery under 2 weeks for a dead rubber?  He would have trained so that means 1 to 1.5 weeks.  Who is talking about 12 months?

For most recreational sportsmen and women, surgery is the last resort whereas for professional footballers it is normal and expected. If you don't do it, Clubs will be criticised. Everyone will ask "why was something not done sooner" when for most of us, it is the last resort. One thing's for sure.  You should try and rehab the injury to avoid surgery, because if you embark on surgery, you still need to rehab afterwards.  Once you start limping, you know there is a problem that can't be remedied by pain killers.  Surgery is always last resort, whether you are man, woman, child, elite or amateur.  Timeframes and priorities and/or lack of progress from conservative therapy might force one to opt for surgery.  Viney rushed back for a dead rubber in latter 2017.  Madness.  Cut throat final...I could excuse

 

Hemingway, I guess you didn't get the nobel prize for writing about foot injury and rehabilitation.

Edited March 25, 2019 by TGR

[MarkMacca 128]

1 hour ago, A F said:

I've never seen a player play under such duress. He could barely move.

Gary Lyon when his back was cooked? I remember people saying it would be worthwhile him taking to the field in a wheelchair, such was his immense impact on the team ...

I recall him hobbling around the forward line like an old man.

[Deemania since 56 6,118]

7 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I'm going to share a story and it doesn't bother me whether or not posters believe me. 

I'll start firstly by asking if anyone else noticed Jack's clear limp during the last half on Saturday. There is absolutely no way that he was moving in that manner due to fitness. Watching him shuffle from contest to contest was almost unbearable and from second level MCC it was clear as day that Jack is either playing through pain or not being entirely honest about his pain. And neither is the club. 

Goodwin said we came away 'unscathed' in his presser but I don't think we're being told the truth about Jack and I'm fearful that he's in a similar position to Vanders in that this will always be an issue for him. 

Here's my story:

Two years ago I was suffering from plantar fasciitis which started over the pre-season (Same as Jack's injury). As soon as it became a constant ache and pain that wasn't going away, I got in touch with a physio from a previous club I'd been at who had just finished up working as North's physio. 

He suggested a relatively new non-invasive procedure that involved a needle which he said some AFL players had trialled with success as there's barely any recovery time. The more traditional surgery (the one that Jack had), is where an incision is made to cut the fascia and relieve the pain. But the recovery time is greater. However, this particular physio said that Jack's foot was in a shocking state after the surgery. Basically that it would never be the same and that he (like Vader's), will have to manage it from now on. He knew the guy who did the surgery. 

I realise this is probably suspected by many already but at the time I didn't want to believe it and thought I'd wait it out and see how he'd recover. But after seeing him in the flesh on Saturday, he is clearly favouring one side and had a notable limp and it can't just be a lack of fitness. 

I'm interested to know if anyone has heard similar. 

 

The PF injury is long, long term and whilst the pain and inflammation - and sometimes flattening of the arch of the foot - tends to 'disappear a little', which raises the affected athlete's confidence, it never truly disappears and often worsens, and can reappear with very little impact, aggravation or stress/pressure. A footy match played may well be one's last if that footballer has had a dose of PF immobilisation. Surgery is a process; it is not a cure for this debilitating condition. Some cases are different, as always; however, it would seem that the condition may be re-triggered or not yet overcome. 

[Soidee 1,496]

I am not losing the faith just yet.  Another 2 games will tell a story, however in the injury front I cannot help feeling the club is feeding us BS!!  This club spruiks it’s medical and fitness staff have done a wonderful job.  Well well, let’s see huh!  There is a stink around the fitness of many of our players, not to mention Smith and Vanders.  The team looks damn slow and if they don’t make the 8 there will be many supporters cracking it.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

7 hours ago, chookrat said:

67% game time is reasonable for a first game. If he played 50% I'd be concerned but i think he'll build to 80+% over the next 2 - 3 rounds. He might simply be holding himself back while he builds match fitness, in which case if he had won would have been smart play but because we lost he's seen as the problem. I reckon we give it a few games to see a bigger sample and then we will have a better idea where Jack and the team are tracking. 

You are right on the money Chook and it is never a dull moment with so many told you so panic merchants that we have on Demonland.

One loss and we are finished or another loss and it is the end of the world.  My My WTF  next. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by nosoupforme

[What 18,810]

21 minutes ago, Soidee said:

I am not losing the faith just yet.  Another 2 games will tell a story, however in the injury front I cannot help feeling the club is feeding us BS!!  This club spruiks it’s medical and fitness staff have done a wonderful job.  Well well, let’s see huh!  There is a stink around the fitness of many of our players, not to mention Smith and Vanders.  The team looks damn slow and if they don’t make the 8 there will be many supporters cracking it.

Thankfully Misson is leaving at the end of the season.

Shouldn't be hard to find an upgrade.

[Binmans PA 25,864]

1 hour ago, MarkMacca said:

Gary Lyon when his back was cooked? I remember people saying it would be worthwhile him taking to the field in a wheelchair, such was his immense impact on the team ...

I recall him hobbling around the forward line like an old man.

Yep, I remember Gary looking a bit hampered, but nowhere near what Jack looked like on Saturday. It's also far more noticeable in the midfield.

[Binmans PA 25,864]

36 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Thankfully Misson is leaving at the end of the season.

Shouldn't be hard to find an upgrade.

How would you know, HH? Targeting Misson when you've no idea what goes on behind the scenes is a little foolhardy.

[What 18,810]

2 minutes ago, A F said:

How would you know, HH? Targeting Misson when you've no idea what goes on behind the scenes is a little foolhardy.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-02-15/misson-enters-his-final-chapter

[Binmans PA 25,864]

32 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-02-15/misson-enters-his-final-chapter

My point was your post implied Misson was doing an ordinary job ("shouldn't be hard to find an upgrade"), so that link doesn't help you or me.

[What 18,810]

18 minutes ago, A F said:

My point was your post implied Misson was doing an ordinary job ("shouldn't be hard to find an upgrade"), so that link doesn't help you or me.

Have a look at the post I quoted.

Its been like that since Misson got to the club.  Never rated him.

[Spud 274]

7 hours ago, Megatron said:

Maybe it’s not smoke and mirrors. Maybe leading up to the practice matches Jack was in really good nick until he got that cork on his knee. 

Lets not jump the gun here and think that it’s the end of the world. Let’s wait and see how he goes this weekend.

To be honest his limp looked like a corkie and struggling to bend his knee properly. That also may explain why he didn't get involved as much physically as another knock could have exacerbated the injury. Sometimes corkies free up when running, other times they move and get worse, he may have guessed or felt at training it had freed up, but game day, it did the opposite. While he may still very well have feet issues, he looked like someone with a bad corkie to me. Have had and seen plenty of blokes with bad corkies in my playing days and his restricted movement looked upper leg. The comparison of his movement would be to Dusty in the Prelim last year when he had the corkie v pies.

[Binmans PA 25,864]

17 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Have a look at the post I quoted.

Its been like that since Misson got to the club.  Never rated him.

I know you've never rated him, but just as now, you've never known the ins and outs of our medical team, in order to back up those opinions.

[hemingway 7,583]

2 hours ago, TGR said:

Foot injuries can be easily diagnosed but difficult to know how long to rest. Depends on who is diagnosing them.  If the diagnosis isn't A1, then it makes sense that one would have no idea about the rest variable.

 

The injury can appear healed and then suddenly recur without warning.  Disagree.  It will 'recur without warning' if the initial diagnosis is not spot on, and other treatment variables (healing time etc...) haven't been ticked off.

Those who have had plantar know that you can think your right only to realise that the pain or discomfort can sometimes be only a step away.   Well if your physio has just given you what is in vogue (glute strengthening and pilates) at the time, then you are likely to be a step away from relapse.

A little like achilles injuries. Rest and rehab are key components to recovery, but for a professional footballer or any sportsperson, rest is the saviour but also the enemy.   Invariably, rest is imperative.  Think about a broken bone, I don't give 2 hoots about the negative of rest, as if given a choice, give me rest.

The longer the rest the more chance of recovery but try telling that to anyone who has a burning desire to be back on the ground. It would take a brave coach or club doctor to say to a player that they will not be allowed to train or play for 12 months or more.  Didn't Viney rush back from foot surgery under 2 weeks for a dead rubber?  He would have trained so that means 1 to 1.5 weeks.  Who is talking about 12 months?

For most recreational sportsmen and women, surgery is the last resort whereas for professional footballers it is normal and expected. If you don't do it, Clubs will be criticised. Everyone will ask "why was something not done sooner" when for most of us, it is the last resort. One thing's for sure.  You should try and rehab the injury to avoid surgery, because if you embark on surgery, you still need to rehab afterwards.  Once you start limping, you know there is a problem that can't be remedied by pain killers.  Surgery is always last resort, whether you are man, woman, child, elite or amateur.  Timeframes and priorities and/or lack of progress from conservative therapy might force one to opt for surgery.  Viney rushed back for a dead rubber in latter 2017.  Madness.  Cut throat final...I could excuse

 

Hemingway, I guess you didn't get the nobel prize for writing about foot injury and rehabilitation.

And you did not get a Nobel Prize for grace or courtesy. 

But you did get one for professional snobbery. 

I hope you feel better. 

[Demons1858 1,657]

20 minutes ago, A F said:

I know you've never rated him, but just as now, you've never known the ins and outs of our medical team, in order to back up those opinions.

Don't need to understand medicine. This is a results based industry and the sample size is big enough to make judgements. Worth noting that Peter Jackson launched a review last season of our sports science and Misson is now moving on at season end.

[Undeeterred 2,816]

9 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I'm going to share a story and it doesn't bother me whether or not posters believe me. 

I'll start firstly by asking if anyone else noticed Jack's clear limp during the last half on Saturday. There is absolutely no way that he was moving in that manner due to fitness. Watching him shuffle from contest to contest was almost unbearable and from second level MCC it was clear as day that Jack is either playing through pain or not being entirely honest about his pain. And neither is the club. 

Goodwin said we came away 'unscathed' in his presser but I don't think we're being told the truth about Jack and I'm fearful that he's in a similar position to Vanders in that this will always be an issue for him. 

Here's my story:

Two years ago I was suffering from plantar fasciitis which started over the pre-season (Same as Jack's injury). As soon as it became a constant ache and pain that wasn't going away, I got in touch with a physio from a previous club I'd been at who had just finished up working as North's physio. 

He suggested a relatively new non-invasive procedure that involved a needle which he said some AFL players had trialled with success as there's barely any recovery time. The more traditional surgery (the one that Jack had), is where an incision is made to cut the fascia and relieve the pain. But the recovery time is greater. However, this particular physio said that Jack's foot was in a shocking state after the surgery. Basically that it would never be the same and that he (like Vader's), will have to manage it from now on. He knew the guy who did the surgery. 

I realise this is probably suspected by many already but at the time I didn't want to believe it and thought I'd wait it out and see how he'd recover. But after seeing him in the flesh on Saturday, he is clearly favouring one side and had a notable limp and it can't just be a lack of fitness. 

I'm interested to know if anyone has heard similar. 

 

I've heard exactly the same thing, albeit via a foot specialist who also knows the surgeon.

[Docs Demons 1,656]

1 hour ago, A F said:

I know you've never rated him, but just as now, you've never known the ins and outs of our medical team, in order to back up those opinions.

Nor could he do any better and to have a dig at our medical team when  he has no back ground to back it up is silly.  IMO Misson has done a great job for this club and who ever comes in will have big shoes to cover.

[DV8 2,271]

7 hours ago, Megatron said:

Yeah no doubt. All I’m saying is people are freaking out that it’s his foot and not necessarily the knock he took a couple of weeks back, but you’re 100% right if he’s not 100% he should admit that and sacrifice himself for the betterment of the team. 

Yep. If its true that he was limping pre-game and couldn't get past a trot in the game, then he simply should not have been selected.   I was unable to see the game so I don't know how he looked.

..................

But i can't wait to see my first 2019 game this week.

I'm hoping it was just Us chasing tails, all day,  and not as bad as it all sounded on here.

I expected us to get off to a slow start,  with what i hoped was a proportioned preseason...  designed to see out the the 2019 finals campaign.  But I wasn't prepared to hear we went to sleep by Qtr time.

Edited March 25, 2019 by DV8

[Gorgoroth 12,302]

Todd would have out ran Jack on the weekend.

[TGR 1,367]

11 hours ago, hemingway said:

And you did not get a Nobel Prize for grace or courtesy. 

But you did get one for professional snobbery. 

I hope you feel better. 

Excuse my snobbery and lack of grace.  I just think that we are entering into an era of keyboard accountability post-Christchurch and Tayla Harris.

Who knows, soon we might have to put our mug-shot in our avatar.

 

 

[drysdale demon 4,143]

19 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Must you put the boot ? in with every post you make?

you, like all of us are never perfect...

I am not sure that I will be able to continue with life now in the knowledge that you don"t think that I'm perfect. You do realize that I wrote the song for Mac Davis "It's Hard to be Humble "

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,380]

11 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Don't need to understand medicine. This is a results based industry and the sample size is big enough to make judgements. Worth noting that Peter Jackson launched a review last season of our sports science and Misson is now moving on at season end.

Wow. To use the usual analogy, I assume you would also agree with this logic:  all dogs are animals; all animals have four legs; therefore all dogs have four legs.

It has been well covered elsewhere that Misson is leaving to travel overseas to accompany his wife who has a new job in Canada.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,380]

14 hours ago, bush demon said:

According to all the "Cliffs from Clematis" on here Jack is cooked. According to Ben Guthrie on AFL.com.au Jack has "an ankle" but will be right this W/E.

I'll take this at face value, but what I really want to know is whether he went into the game with the ankle problem or whether the injury happened during the game. If he went into the game with that injury, and if it was the cause of his poor performance, it is obvious in hindsight that he should not have played. But I wonder whether it should also have been obvious with foresight?

[TGR 1,367]

32 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'll take this at face value, but what I really want to know is whether he went into the game with the ankle problem or whether the injury happened during the game. If he went into the game with that injury, and if it was the cause of his poor performance, it is obvious in hindsight that he should not have played. But I wonder whether it should also have been obvious with foresight?

I’d say when you clearly limped off the ground less than 1 week before after his one and only preseason game; superimposed on the fact that you are underdone and carrying one injury or more; and the fact that you have had a history of recalcitrant lower-limb conditions over the past 2 years; and the fact that this is round 1 and not a final...I’d say very much so.

 

I have give a small benefit of a large doubt for long enough.  His selection was pure madness.