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Big Improvers/Standout New Players

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10 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

 

I reckon that's a rubbish take on Fritsch.

He was underdeveloped physically but he rarely did anything other than give 100% at every contest all season.

Gives 100% but underdeveloped physically is the reason for lack of genuine physicality. He isn't a good tackler, particularly as a forward or defender where tackling involves closing space and anticipation. He wasn't always reliable over a loose ball as a defender either.

He made a number of defensive errors against the Hawks (and a few against the Cats), it really wasn't his position which wasn't a surprise given he'd never played there before.

I expect very good things on the wing without going over the top. And I agree with AF that his tank will be important. Running all day is the easiest path for him to become a superb wingman. I hope we can spare him to play full forward for 5 minutes a quarter as well (and not to full back as the loose man).

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14 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Some of the players I'd like to see make a major leap forward this year are Hunt, Garlett (notwithstanding his age), Frost and OMac.

But I have a suspicion that the player who is going to surprise me most is Stretch. I don't know why, I just have a feeling.

I reckon that's a rubbish take on Fritsch.

He was underdeveloped physically but he rarely did anything other than give 100% at every contest all season.

I hope you are right.  I have a soft spot for Billy.  Party because his old man is such a legend of the MFC, but also I think because of the faith and loyalty that Billy showed in us by nominating the MFC as his preferred destination via the father/son rule when we were total puss of a side.  Love the effort, comittment and professionalism that others always talk about him with too.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Another way of looking at this thread is “who are our worst 6 in our best 22, and can they lift to be the best worst 6 in the comp”

If so, we’ll win a flag

I reckon there are any number of teams that only have between 4 & 8 top players each.   So we've got a headstart on any number of teams. 

If we count Fritsch (some would also have vanders and/or ANB in as well) then we've got 16 but that 16 has had a number of recent additions over the last 3 years

  • Salem is a much more rounded player now
  • Melksham is starting to show his true worth
  • Harmes is much improved
  • Brayshaw has come of age after overcoming chronic concussion issues
  • Lewis has only played 2 seasons with us
  • T-Mac is now a revelation up forward
  • Hibberd & Oliver have only played 3 seasons for us
  • May is new & Lever much the same.
  • Petracca gets better every year but is nowhere near his ceiling yet.

We've come a long way in a very short space of time. 

And the growth of the list doesn't stop there ... if we can add 4 or 5 good/top players to what we've already got,  that elusive premiership is not out of reach.  Teams that win multiple flags (Cats,  Hawks,  Swans,  Lions) often have the same thing in common - an abundance of talent. 

I've a feeling that by seasons end we'll have added 2 or 3 more top players to the 16 or so that we've already got ... we're going to lose Lewis sooner or later and Jones isn't getting any younger either so we need to keep improving our top-end talent.

Edited by Macca
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Some of the players I'd like to see make a major leap forward this year are Hunt, Garlett (notwithstanding his age), Frost and OMac.

But I have a suspicion that the player who is going to surprise me most is Stretch. I don't know why, I just have a feeling.

I reckon that's a rubbish take on Fritsch.

He was underdeveloped physically but he rarely did anything other than give 100% at every contest all season.

There is a difference between being soft and not having the body for physicality. Fritsch is in the latter category. 

Edited by A F
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If Viney can stay fit and find his best form again this season, that would be huge.  That our on-ball brigade was so good without him for most of the season last year shows how far the others have developed.

I'd almost forgotten how good Viney was, we saw so little of him in 2018.  Along with AVB, the impact that Viney made for us in finals last year shouldn't be underestimated.  He wasn't brilliant with the ball, but his tackling efforts were sensational.  It's that kind of leadership which will take us places.

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12 minutes ago, Macca said:

I reckon there are any number of teams that only have between 4 & 8 top players each.   So we've got a headstart on any number of teams. 

If we count Fritsch (some would also have vanders and/or ANB in as well) then we've got 16 but that 16 has had a number of recent additions over the last 3 years

  • Salem is a much more rounded player now
  • Melksham is starting to show his true worth
  • Harmes is much improved
  • Brayshaw has come of age after overcoming chronic concussion issues
  • Lewis has only played 2 seasons with us
  • T-Mac is now a revelation up forward
  • Hibberd & Oliver have only played 3 seasons for us
  • May is new & Lever much the same.
  • Petracca gets better every year but is nowhere near his ceiling yet.

We've come a long way in a very short space of time. 

And the growth of the list doesn't stop there ... if we can add 4 or 5 good/top players to what we've already got,  that elusive premiership is not out of reach.  Teams that win multiple flags (Cats,  Hawks,  Swans,  Lions) often have the same thing in common - an abundance of talent. 

I've a feeling that by seasons end we'll have added 2 or 3 more top players to the 16 or so that we've already got ... we're going to lose Lewis sooner or later and Jones isn't getting any younger either so we need to keep improving our top-end talent.

Well said, Maccaroni.

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4 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

For me, Petracca and Salem need to become two of our better players, week in week out.

Weid needs to play a solid role, doesn’t need to star.

 

but for me, more importantly Brayshaw, Oliver, Tmac and co need to maintain their high level and especially Harmes, if Harmes can maintain his ball winning and negating that will be huge.

agreed  'Gg'.

Especially Tracca... he has further to stand up then Salem does,  but both are needed to be more consistent,  and impact for longer periods of the games.

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3 hours ago, A F said:

There is a difference between being soft and not having the body for physicality. Fritsch is in the latter category. 

I would do that trade to bring in Fritta any day of the week.   He's a goer,  and will get better with the years, as he grows.   It's in his blood,  and its in his mind,  and its in his  'Heart'...

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3 hours ago, A F said:

There is a difference between being soft and not having the body for physicality. Fritsch is in the latter category. 

Watts is around 12kg heavier than Fritsch, yet the level of physicality they play with is the inverse of their respective weight, so I don't think it's such a huge issue -- Coldstream EDFL Vs Brighton  Grammar private school boy mentality.

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@Macca, I don't think too many people would have had Harmes as one of the automatic selections at the start of last season - what difference a season makes and if more players can make that same next step in their development this year, we should be right up there in flag contention.

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Let’s say 2 of the 4 identified youngsters break out this year, this will only counter the fading Lewis and co, so what I think we need is for some of our mid-performance players to lift. ANB, AVB, Weid, Fritta, Frost and Stretch. If they do that, we’re home and hosed!!!

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10 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

But I have a suspicion that the player who is going to surprise me most is Stretch. I don't know why, I just have a feeling.

I'd love it if Stretch took it up a level or two. That game last year before he injured his toe showed us something.. Stretch is one of those players who needs time to find his feet at AFL level.  Unfortunately these days you have to be able to walk into your role and the team very quickly and adapt. If he gets that time he could make a good winger. I think he's one of two genuine wings on the list - the other being Fritsch. I don't think Hunt is and I have my doubts about KK on a wing. 

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15 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I recon Nathan Jones impact on games has been on the wane in the last few seasons, but I'm wondering if he can defy the doubters and put in a few more big seasons to take us to the next level.

Off the bench definitely this season.His role has been taken. Perhaps he can be used as an impact player

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7 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Watts is around 12kg heavier than Fritsch, yet the level of physicality they play with is the inverse of their respective weight, so I don't think it's such a huge issue -- Coldstream EDFL Vs Brighton  Grammar private school boy mentality.

I don't understand this gratuitous comment. Are you saying Christian Salem, Jayden Hunt and (even though he's not ours) Josh Kelly have a similar mentality to Jack Watts?

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40 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I don't understand this gratuitous comment. Are you saying Christian Salem, Jayden Hunt and (even though he's not ours) Josh Kelly have a similar mentality to Jack Watts?

And you can add Steven May (Melbourne Grammar), Cyril Rioli (Scotch), Chris Judd (Caulfield) and Jack Viney (Prince Alfred College/Carey) to those with a ‘private school mentality’. It’s such a lame stereotype isn’t it

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Harmes surprised me last year - didn't have him in my best 25 at the beginning of the year. 

Weideman showed a bit in the finals series and I hope his improvement continues.

If vandenBerg can get his kicking for goal worked out (he misses to the right a lot, missing very gettable goals) then he could be a big improver.  I think this is his first season having done a full preseason so I reckon we will see a very sharp rise.

The one I would love to see fulfilling his potential is Hunt. If he can add composure to his kicking, and staying in the game for longer periods, the sky is the limit. But there is a LOT of pressure on for positions in the back 6.

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As a bit of a segway in all of this the ol' gem of decision making comes up.

I'm one who sits decidedly in the camp that this is seldom a quality that can be particularly improved, as it applies to this game.

There is inherently, for mine , an erroneous belief that action and decisions are necessarily cut from the same cloth .

Whilst it's very possible to train players to act in a certain way, take a particular course of disposal etc they aren't so much 'decisions' as learnt automations.

True decision making sits above all that. It is imho a DNA like quality. I E you either can make very good snap decisions...or you can't. I don't think it's something capable of being 'learned'

In that regard players who might have desirable qualities and abilities but poor decision making often stay exactly like that.

They might become better players simply by becoming better automons...but not by considered action.

 

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14 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

As a bit of a segway in all of this the ol' gem of decision making comes up.

I'm one who sits decidedly in the camp that this is seldom a quality that can be particularly improved, as it applies to this game.

There is inherently, for mine , an erroneous belief that action and decisions are necessarily cut from the same cloth .

Whilst it's very possible to train players to act in a certain way, take a particular course of disposal etc they aren't so much 'decisions' as learnt automations.

True decision making sits above all that. It is imho a DNA like quality. I E you either can make very good snap decisions...or you can't. I don't think it's something capable of being 'learned'

In that regard players who might have desirable qualities and abilities but poor decision making often stay exactly like that.

They might become better players simply by becoming better automons...but not by considered action.

 

As a matter of interest, do you think Harmes has become a better automon or is he one of the exceptions?

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1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

As a matter of interest, do you think Harmes has become a better automon or is he one of the exceptions?

The question supposed he's but an automon..and an exception.

I simply think he's a very capable player that's now using his actual decision qualities better within the framework of team style.

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13 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I hope you are right.  I have a soft spot for Billy.  Party because his old man is such a legend of the MFC, but also I think because of the faith and loyalty that Billy showed in us by nominating the MFC as his preferred destination via the father/son rule when we were total puss of a side.  Love the effort, comittment and professionalism that others always talk about him with too.

Stretch just needs one of those breaks - y'know, those that come consecutively from a handful of games that build confidence and clear the mind (of the pressures) for better footballing experiences. He has many great attributes and surely, will continue to develop. I'd also like to imagine that he - and his dad - have some longer-term plans within his development - to many, he already has good skills and could focus on continued onfield running and ball-handling - funnily enough, just like his dad Steven could - who, by the way used to tear opposition teams apart with central positioning. 

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9 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Watts is around 12kg heavier than Fritsch, yet the level of physicality they play with is the inverse of their respective weight, so I don't think it's such a huge issue -- Coldstream EDFL Vs Brighton  Grammar private school boy mentality.

Balls you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, get over it. Perhaps the stereotype that if you went to a public school therefore you are, tough, stupid and from a lower class family fits? But I don't buy that, time to give up the private school stereotypes and I won't call you a Range Rover driver from Mt Buller.

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16 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Balls you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, get over it. Perhaps the stereotype that if you went to a public school therefore you are, tough, stupid and from a lower class family fits? But I don't buy that, time to give up the private school stereotypes and I won't call you a Range Rover driver from Mt Buller.

There is a fair bit of living knowledge in what 'Balls' imparts and it obviously emanates from a very good, sound football heritage. Other comments, MD, are just wrong and inappropriate. There is no 'chip on the shoulder', just experience and wisdom. I also notice that 'Balls' refuses to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person, so I guess your little missive is redundant anyway?

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Joel Smith is my pick for a huge year.

Topped the league goalkicking in the JLT, and with his leap and athleticism will hold down a spot up forward for us.

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16 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

There is a fair bit of living knowledge in what 'Balls' imparts and it obviously emanates from a very good, sound football heritage. Other comments, MD, are just wrong and inappropriate. There is no 'chip on the shoulder', just experience and wisdom. I also notice that 'Balls' refuses to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person, so I guess your little missive is redundant anyway?

Some stereotypes are tedious, I think it shows a lack of intellectual vigour. I am surprised that you think a poster that goes by the name Balls Grinter needs your help, perhaps she is your little sister or you have two names on here and you are Balls. You know that is not allowed don't you? How could you know "that 'Balls' refuses to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person, " if it were not you? Anyway Balls you know what they say about people from Adelaide.

 

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I won't be holding my breath on this, but if Jeffy Garlett was to get his head right and knuckle down, he could have a 50 goal season. Has the ability to do the unbelievable, but goes missing way too often

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