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Have a look at how many times in the last 2 weeks Hogan has led and poor disposal has either sent the ball over his head or has fallen short. There are not too many forwards who can excel under those conditions.

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14 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Have a look at how many times in the last 2 weeks Hogan has led and poor disposal has either sent the ball over his head or has fallen short. There are not too many forwards who can excel under those conditions.

Yep, worth going back to have a look, some of the kicks were 15m away from him, I did have a laugh though

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Yep that footage otc was damming. Showed just how lazy we r as a team and still don’t get that we have to consistently work hard to get anywhere. 

Beggars belief really considering where we have been. 

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11 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Agreed. It’s been obvious for a while. Watch the Tigers (live) and you will see the constant run and second efforts.  

All Dees need to lift. All. Well except Maxy 

Thought Max was great but so was Hibberd, working his way across the entire backline and manning up against them all and out-marking opponents and winning hard-ball-gets and finding teammates with passes and running here, there and everywhere within the boundaries of the specific timeframe and then returning to his position according to the state of play 'once he had achieved yet another clearance to our advantage at any given moment because OMac was drawn out of position 523 times during the game running around wrist slapping after the fact.  I think this indicates that with a team of Gawn x 2 and Hibberd x 16, we could win the flag?

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6 hours ago, SFebey said:

“He doesn’t try and turn you into a robot or make things too structured, he lets you go out there and play the game and that’s what we love doing.

“Simon teaches us the basics, but he lets us play with freedom.”

 

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/06/20/goodwin-allowing-melbourne-to-play-with-freedom-melksham/

Horrible reality. Imagine Clarko in that scenario!

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5 hours ago, Elegt said:

has Hogan ever chased hard and laid a decent tackle? he's not a hard worker and should be traded 

Comedy Gold

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There spot on but. It isn' the backs that allow the ball to come through. U would think this would be easy for the players to fix i.e goodwin has them playing a style that scores heavily, enjoyable to play however the only rule is gotta run and defend. 

I' sure there are worse gameplans or coaches out there so goody can't all that bad to play under if u think bout it.

Another funny thing is yes we are on a losing streak but guess who is the highest scoring team atm haha.

For everyone pulling there hair out, me included with these wasted entries into the forward line I don' think anything will change atm. It looks sooooo wasted but look at our scores???

I don' like it especially with the players at our disposal however if we can get our pressure back up with 2 way running most problems will be forgotten.

Nobody needs to stress, it' purely player laziness, drinking own bathwater. Once they choke they'll wake up. Remember when we are on we actually bully the competition

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Even when the work rate was up to scratch this year it was often wasted through below average disposal. It must be disheartening for the players to bust their a**, only to see that not translate to scores We are an ineffective football side. I think when we do work hard we have the grunt to out hustle a lot of sides, even the best of sides, but they smash us on the rebound and on the spread. Opposition sides make the most of their opportunities and we don't. We don't lower our eyes going inside forward 50, and we tend to just bomb it out the centre - which we have been doing since Moloney was at the club. I would put Fritsch in the middle because at least he lowers his eyes and makes good decisions. He is spoiling Tmac in the forward line anyway. You would think after 3-4 times that someone would tell Fritsch to stop going up for the same mark as Hogan and Tmac. There is too many simple and basic things happening in games that continuously happen over and over again, week after week. I wonder if our coaches even watch the replays? I suspect they don't.

Edited by KingDingAling

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7 hours ago, SFebey said:

“He doesn’t try and turn you into a robot or make things too structured, he lets you go out there and play the game and that’s what we love doing.

“Simon teaches us the basics, but he lets us play with freedom.

 

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/06/20/goodwin-allowing-melbourne-to-play-with-freedom-melksham/

I suspected as much. We play like a disordered football side. We desperately need structure, and players need to know their role. There needs to be some order established. The players don't need freedom they need an organised and well structured game plan. If you want players to play on instinct then drill the game plan into them until it becomes second nature, then watch them play on instinct. There is 18 players on the field and the more they play to a structure the easier the objective is. We have one of the best tap ruckman in the league, and here we are bombing the ball into 50, not giving Hogan a hope in hell of marking it, and having 3-4 blokes all go up for the one mark. its under 11 football. No organisation at all. Just disorder.

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14 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

I suspected as much. We play like a disordered football side. We desperately need structure, and players need to know their role. There needs to be some order established. The players don't need freedom they need an organised and well structured game plan. If you want players to play on instinct then drill the game plan into them until it becomes second nature, then watch them play on instinct. There is 18 players on the field and the more they play to a structure the easier the objective is. We have one of the best tap ruckman in the league, and here we are bombing the ball into 50, not giving Hogan a hope in hell of marking it, and having 3-4 blokes all go up for the one mark. its under 11 football. No organisation at all. Just disorder.

How hard is it to have a core set of attacking 50 rules

1st commandment - thou shalt lower thy eyes and not bomb

 

2nd commandment - under condition x only tmac shall fly for mark with players a, b always ready to crumb (with obvious variations )

 

and on you go

break rule - warning

break again - dragged

break again - dropped no exceptions and let the team

down

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8 hours ago, The Chazz said:

They are developing Baker.  They are doing it the right way for a first year player.  They are developing him in the reserves until such time as he demands to be picked on a regular basis.  That's development.

For me, I'm preferring a bloke that's played 300+ games and 4 premierships, at this stage of our (the Club's) development.  Sure, he has lost a yard of pace, but I can tolerate that if he's adding value in other areas.  When that consistently drops off, then we reassess where our development is at, and either move Jordan on and replace him with someone that's got a similar resume (but 2-3 years younger), or if have developed further as a club, THEN we can look at adding the finishing touches to a Baker, et al.

What value is Lewis adding on field? He had a Saint hemmed in on the Members wing boundary line who must've pulled a Houdini move cause next minute Lewis had not moved and the Saint was running along the wing towards their forward 50. Every opponent knows Lewis can't catch them to tackle. That they can run away from him. That he won't run and carry because he knows he'll be run down. That he is a transplanted(pun intended) inside mid who is not great at spoiling. In short forwards across the league are hoping that he'll be their matchup.

There is no onfield role for Jordan Lewis at AFL level in 2018. He's a 4 time premiership player who has played on a season too long and is now capable of not much more than guarding space.

Edited by demoniac

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10 hours ago, DeeZee said:

Im not going to name names but my daughter told me last week that she saw two high profile senior players buying smokes at 7/11.

 

I've narrowed down the list of suspects.

6 Jordan Lewis

1 Jesse Hogan

11 Max Gawn

9 Charlie Spargo (wouldn’t be able to convince the cashier he’s over 18)

4 James Harmes (couldn’t find the guy standing all alone behind the counter)

12 Dom Tyson (he’d get caught too easily)

14 Michael Hibberd (moustache is a smoking hazard)

15 Billy Stretch (a bit of a stretch, I think)

10 Angus Brayshaw (you’re not allowed to enter 7/11 with a helmet)

18 Jake Melksham (prefers the harder stuff direct to the bloodstream)

23 Bernie Vince (would have been more interested in DeeZee’s daughter)

28 Oscar McDonald (Tomald says he’s not allowed to smoke)

 

2 Nathan Jones (c) (has the big c next to his name; is always jonesing)

3 Christian Salem (hypothyroidism linked to smoking in numerous studies)

5 Christian Petracca (ducking out behind the sheds explains frequent absence)

7 Jack Viney (c) (Jack Viney’s so tough he eats cigarettes for breakfast)

8 Jake Lever (the only player in the team who can afford a pack nowadays)

13 Clayton Oliver (pale, recent weight loss – clearly has cancer)

16 Dean Kent (released his own popular line of filtered originals)

21 Pedo (‘Hey, kid, you wanna cigarette? Jump in the back of the van')

25 Tom McDonald (out of breath from a punctured lung, huh? Right)

29 Jayden Hunt (there’s only one thing better than a chocolate milk . . .)

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1 hour ago, Skuit said:

I've narrowed down the list of suspects.

6 Jordan Lewis

1 Jesse Hogan

11 Max Gawn

9 Charlie Spargo (wouldn’t be able to convince the cashier he’s over 18)

4 James Harmes (couldn’t find the guy standing all alone behind the counter)

12 Dom Tyson (he’d get caught too easily)

14 Michael Hibberd (moustache is a smoking hazard)

15 Billy Stretch (a bit of a stretch, I think)

10 Angus Brayshaw (you’re not allowed to enter 7/11 with a helmet)

18 Jake Melksham (prefers the harder stuff direct to the bloodstream)

23 Bernie Vince (would have been more interested in DeeZee’s daughter)

28 Oscar McDonald (Tomald says he’s not allowed to smoke)

 

2 Nathan Jones (c) (has the big c next to his name; is always jonesing)

3 Christian Salem (hypothyroidism linked to smoking in numerous studies)

5 Christian Petracca (ducking out behind the sheds explains frequent absence)

7 Jack Viney (c) (Jack Viney’s so tough he eats cigarettes for breakfast)

8 Jake Lever (the only player in the team who can afford a pack nowadays)

13 Clayton Oliver (pale, recent weight loss – clearly has cancer)

16 Dean Kent (released his own popular line of filtered originals)

21 Pedo (‘Hey, kid, you wanna cigarette? Jump in the back of the van')

25 Tom McDonald (out of breath from a punctured lung, huh? Right)

29 Jayden Hunt (there’s only one thing better than a chocolate milk . . .)

Gold.

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15 hours ago, The Chazz said:

Looking at all that, I am now starting to think that minimal changes should be made this weekend.  Every player is on notice, the media are showing our opponents how to beat us (if they haven't worked that out for themselves already).  Some pretty proud players that have been heavily challenged, some for the second/third week in a row.

On paper our team is quite solid, and should be a finals playing team.  The time for individual players to prove that they want to do that in 2018 starts this Saturday.  Line-in-the-sand type stuff for me, and I feel that Goodwin was implying the same after Sunday's game.

Chazz that is not this Saturday.  Even playing at a similar level to last Sunday (which was horrid) we beat Freo (subject to the Umps tearing us a new one).... Just.  Yes they are that bad without Fyfe and Sandi.  That's IF we do play at a similar level.  It could always get worse i guess so in some ways you are right but we should beat Freo with one hand tied behind our back.

I would take no notice of whatever happens this weekend to be honest.

And our team is only solid if it works as a team.  Stuff that Lewis is not doing in those Videos just has to be ruled out and if he can't bring it i would rather see someone else in that role even if inferior at general play like Frost or Baker?

And remember we went with Weids instead of Smith.  Smith our best tackler inside 50.  I doubt he lets Carlisle run away at will without chasing him down and at least closing the gap.  Not saying Smith should play either but i think if we want to improve our pressure i50 (and we have to) then you have to play players who are best at doing so.  As Gazza demonstrated we are now the easiest team in the comp to score against once the ball enters our 50.

In addition if we are going to continue with so many potatoes through the mid field who can't chase down their direct opponent over short / medium or long runs then don't play such a high press and make sure you have at least two speedsters (who can tackle) behind the press.  Also tell them not to get adjacent or goal side of opponents.

In the end though we have to find some players with speed (who can also apply manic pressure) in a number of areas across the ground.  I personally can't see us playing finals unless we bring this factor into the team in the next 2 to 3 weeks and i'm struggling to see who these players will be at this point.

Edited by Rusty Nails

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13 hours ago, Redleg said:

What are you talking about, this is not a personal development seminar. It's a football club. 

Its a recipe for developing the club from where we've come from, to where we are now.

I don't know about your personal development thingy, but I do know something about the rebuilding of a list. And the culture of.

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9 hours ago, Skuit said:

I've narrowed down the list of suspects.

6 Jordan Lewis

1 Jesse Hogan

11 Max Gawn

9 Charlie Spargo (wouldn’t be able to convince the cashier he’s over 18)

4 James Harmes (couldn’t find the guy standing all alone behind the counter)

12 Dom Tyson (he’d get caught too easily)

14 Michael Hibberd (moustache is a smoking hazard)

15 Billy Stretch (a bit of a stretch, I think)

10 Angus Brayshaw (you’re not allowed to enter 7/11 with a helmet)

18 Jake Melksham (prefers the harder stuff direct to the bloodstream)

23 Bernie Vince (would have been more interested in DeeZee’s daughter)

28 Oscar McDonald (Tomald says he’s not allowed to smoke)

 

2 Nathan Jones (c) (has the big c next to his name; is always jonesing)

3 Christian Salem (hypothyroidism linked to smoking in numerous studies)

5 Christian Petracca (ducking out behind the sheds explains frequent absence)

7 Jack Viney (c) (Jack Viney’s so tough he eats cigarettes for breakfast)

8 Jake Lever (the only player in the team who can afford a pack nowadays)

13 Clayton Oliver (pale, recent weight loss – clearly has cancer)

16 Dean Kent (released his own popular line of filtered originals)

21 Pedo (‘Hey, kid, you wanna cigarette? Jump in the back of the van')

25 Tom McDonald (out of breath from a punctured lung, huh? Right)

29 Jayden Hunt (there’s only one thing better than a chocolate milk . . .)

You're in good form Skuit, keep it up, funny stuff

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11 hours ago, demoniac said:

What value is Lewis adding on field? He had a Saint hemmed in on the Members wing boundary line who must've pulled a Houdini move cause next minute Lewis had not moved and the Saint was running along the wing towards their forward 50. Every opponent knows Lewis can't catch them to tackle. That they can run away from him. That he won't run and carry because he knows he'll be run down. That he is a transplanted(pun intended) inside mid who is not great at spoiling. In short forwards across the league are hoping that he'll be their matchup.

There is no onfield role for Jordan Lewis at AFL level in 2018. He's a 4 time premiership player who has played on a season too long and is now capable of not much more than guarding space.

I think it's a catch 22 with Lewis.  When the team plays well, he's definitely worth his spot in the team.  The awareness/maturity of that last goal he kicked on Sunday - he knew time was flying by, he knew he had to take the kick as quickly as possible to give us the best chance of winning the game.  A very, very basic thing, but many players would've gone back and taken a lot longer to kick it.  You can't teach that.

That's one example of one moment within a game that his experience is needed in our team.

On the flip side, the problem with him is that what he brings to the team (which as I said above, is at its best when the whole team is playing well), our players are most likely looking up to hm to start.  He is a leader of the club, and the younger guys need him (and a couple of others) to lead them out of in-game slumps.  But I feel that Jordan is of more value when the team is out of the in-game slump.

I do think he needs to be more consistent, which I'm sure he still has in him.  It's a lot easier for kids to listen to him barking instructions when it's clear he is practicing what he is preaching.  When they see he isn't, that's when his best quality for us becomes a concern.

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2 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

I think it's a catch 22 with Lewis.  When the team plays well, he's definitely worth his spot in the team.  The awareness/maturity of that last goal he kicked on Sunday - he knew time was flying by, he knew he had to take the kick as quickly as possible to give us the best chance of winning the game.  A very, very basic thing, but many players would've gone back and taken a lot longer to kick it.  You can't teach that.

That's one example of one moment within a game that his experience is needed in our team.

On the flip side, the problem with him is that what he brings to the team (which as I said above, is at its best when the whole team is playing well), our players are most likely looking up to hm to start.  He is a leader of the club, and the younger guys need him (and a couple of others) to lead them out of in-game slumps.  But I feel that Jordan is of more value when the team is out of the in-game slump.

I do think he needs to be more consistent, which I'm sure he still has in him.  It's a lot easier for kids to listen to him barking instructions when it's clear he is practicing what he is preaching.  When they see he isn't, that's when his best quality for us becomes a concern.

Good post. I think we need to be looking at the next Lewis and Vince, any ideas? Hodge has been brilliant for the young Lions.

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11 hours ago, Skuit said:

I've narrowed down the list of suspects.

6 Jordan Lewis

1 Jesse Hogan

11 Max Gawn

9 Charlie Spargo (wouldn’t be able to convince the cashier he’s over 18)

4 James Harmes (couldn’t find the guy standing all alone behind the counter)

12 Dom Tyson (he’d get caught too easily)

14 Michael Hibberd (moustache is a smoking hazard)

15 Billy Stretch (a bit of a stretch, I think)

10 Angus Brayshaw (you’re not allowed to enter 7/11 with a helmet)

18 Jake Melksham (prefers the harder stuff direct to the bloodstream)

23 Bernie Vince (would have been more interested in DeeZee’s daughter)

28 Oscar McDonald (Tomald says he’s not allowed to smoke)

 

2 Nathan Jones (c) (has the big c next to his name; is always jonesing)

3 Christian Salem (hypothyroidism linked to smoking in numerous studies)

5 Christian Petracca (ducking out behind the sheds explains frequent absence)

7 Jack Viney (c) (Jack Viney’s so tough he eats cigarettes for breakfast)

8 Jake Lever (the only player in the team who can afford a pack nowadays)

13 Clayton Oliver (pale, recent weight loss – clearly has cancer)

16 Dean Kent (released his own popular line of filtered originals)

21 Pedo (‘Hey, kid, you wanna cigarette? Jump in the back of the van')

25 Tom McDonald (out of breath from a punctured lung, huh? Right)

29 Jayden Hunt (there’s only one thing better than a chocolate milk . . .)

No lack of work rate from you Skuit.  The Lever and Kent reasons, classic. 

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On 7/3/2018 at 2:39 PM, Elegt said:

has Hogan ever chased hard and laid a decent tackle? he's not a hard worker and should be traded 

I am happy now

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20 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Is happy really the word?

I dont tolerate players who put zero defensive efforts in

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