Post Match Discussion - Round 12

[billyblanks29 184]

We've lost clearances the past two weeks despite being the best team in the comp prior to that.

Wonder if that's to do with the return of Jack Viney? Lacking a bit of touch going through there?

[Demon Dynasty 15,370]

1 hour ago, billyblanks29 said:

We've lost clearances the past two weeks despite being the best team in the comp prior to that.

Wonder if that's to do with the return of Jack Viney? Lacking a bit of touch going through there?

I would hate to admit you are right but I suspect you are to some degree Billy.

The return of Jack has actually put a bit of a spanner into what was a very balanced and tuned mid field IMHO.

And what is the missing ingredient .... Gus!!!!

Tacking Gus outside and putting Jack in has seen one too many players (not always but too often vs previously) attacking the ground ball while their opponent slips out the back for a lucky bounce or over the top handball against the grain to get the ball going behind the unnecessary extra attacking player (Viney / Harmes etc) for the give off / clearance.

Also on Saturday Jack did not defend whoever he was on too well early on in many  cases (initially DeGoey then Treloar) possibly as he is not switched on defensively as yet and/or power lacking....maybe both.

He was either giving them too much room by attacking the pill when he didn't need to (ie, other players at the drop were closer to the ball drop but he still went in leaving his opponent free) or not defending goal side of his opponent when the ball was in the oppositions 50.

He wasn't alone here though.  Just take the tape to the ball up (or ball in) with 15 minutes to go in the first quarter and you will witness at least 3 Pies goal side of the pill and only Nev (standing an opponent!  Goal side!) between those three and their goals.  Surprise surprise the Pies got it out the back to an unmarked Pie for I think their 3rd goal for the quarter.   Jack one offender but not alone.  Check where Clarry and some of the others are positioned also (i'll give you a guess where most of their opponents were!).   Really poor stuff and efforts that will go towards losing contests and possibly the game.  Certainly not in isolation but when added together they can conspire to hurt the final result.  And as we know, in a final if you get off to a poor start (or allow your opponent to get off to a good or great one) you are pretty much toast in most cases!

We also did some very ordinary things on Saturday in set ups like the one described  above.

For another great example of a really amateur set up and play watch Pedders go up in the ruck against Cox with 9:30 to go in the first.

Mistake 1.  Pedders is on the incorrect side of Cox giving him goal side position to start the throw in.  Viney actually covers Treloar well in the initial contest from this ruck duel so he wasn't all bad all the time. Credit where credit's due.

Mistake 2.  Pedders leaves Cox to attack the ground ball and eventually tackles Adams, who gets there first (ie, see ball get ball instead of covering your direct opponent goal side!).

Mistake 3.  Salem allows himself to also get drawn in to the ground ball contest but gets caught in no mans land (ie, doesn't quite get to the opponent to effect a tackle but also doesn't sit off him far enough to potentially effect an intercept or tackle a potential receiver goal side either).

Result:  With Nev, Pedders and to a lessor degree Salem,  all tackling Adams (or attempting to put a feeble hand in to effect a fumble in the case of Salem) this allows Cox (who has wisely stayed out) to wait out and grab the handball from a slippery Adams (who couldn't be shut down by two tacklers....Nev & Pedders!).  With Cox's direct opponent (Pedders) on the ground after his tackle, Cox is able to turn around with enough time to size up the goals and kick his second goal on his preferred right foot (having no one in front of him goal side...ie, Pedders, or potentially a tackle or scrap which might put him off his kick....eg, Salem!). 

Some players also lacked intensity in some contests.  For a great early example have a look at Hulk's effort to spoil Howe marking a tumble round the corner kick about the 10 minute mark in the 1st out of the centre from Viney (under pressure).  Way off AFL level and certainly not finals worthy.  Only one example but again, it all adds up and other players couldn't help but notice this surely.  It becomes catchy, just as the look of Howe taking what appears on the surface to be a strong contested mark in defence (but wasn't) might be a bit of confidence booster for the opp.  If you aren't going to give your all at every contest and pick and choose when to go at this point then I don't know.  What are you doing?  Rubbish like that has to be stamped out. Complete team and coach killer especially early in a match.

For a good example of what we should expect look at Vince's effort to spoil DeGoey when he was way out of the contest from the resulting play following Howe's mark.  Gives a soft free kick but at least he gave it his all, stopped DeGoey tacking an easy mark (knocking him over), even though a free kick resulted.  Or clarry's effort to run down a Pie on the wing very early in the first resulting in a turnover and our first goal to Hannan.

Maybe it was partly to do with a tired younger brigade.  Maybe partly to do with Viney returning.  Pedders having pretty much no effect and making fundamental mistakes along with others in set ups etc.  maybe it was having no real run with player (or two) to run with DeGoey and Treloar for much of the game and instead have the duties assigned to a few who really weren't sure who they were on at any point and instead just picking up a random loose player (allowing mis matches like DeGoey on Clarry at times....to make an easy escape for another easy clearance...etc).  I would be training and using one or two dedicated lock down players here and certainly not our best mids in Viney, Clarry, Jones or Brayshaw.  ANB and/or Harmes all day for mine (as part of the starting 4).  Keep your best players free, to do their best work, and make the opp work their ass off trying to shut US down!

I know the FD will have been allover this one like a rash but they need to.  It was pretty ordinary in so many ways and they (and the coach) must take part of the blame.  The Pies were super well drilled and knew exactly what needed doing (where to position/block/one or two in MAX at the drop of the ball the rest keep their feet and wait for the spill / handball etc) and for some reason we did a lot of things that IMHO looked very amateurish (just as we did against the Hawks!).   I hope Goody is learning after two horrible results where similar mistakes are where made (including match ups) and early intensity was lacking on such a big game day... again.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[DeleteUser 638]

11 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

I would hate to admit you are right but I suspect you are to some degree Billy.

The return of Jack has actually put a bit of a spanner into what was a very balanced and tuned mid field IMHO.

And what is the missing ingredient .... Gus!!!!

- TLDR  space saving edit by timbo -

I know the FD will have been allover this one like a rash but they need to.  ....

 

Just wow! How much time did you spend breaking that down? (serious q, not being a smarty pants)

Bravo sir.

Edited June 14, 2018 by timbo
space saving edit

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Great post @Rusty Nails

Witnessed much of that myself. 

Pederson is a really limited player. Some of his decision making in regards to positioning, contest work, who to tackle, when to chase ball etc is very very poor. 

[Dee Zephyr 17,421]

That’s some serious dissecting @Rusty Nails.

Well done. Sitting ground level you miss a lot of what happens on the other side of the ground and I can’t bring myself to watching losing replays. Thank you.

 

[buck_nekkid 5,475]

33 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Great post @Rusty Nails

Witnessed much of that myself. 

Pederson is a really limited player. Some of his decision making in regards to positioning, contest work, who to tackle, when to chase ball etc is very very poor. 

Yep, great analysis.  It shows that Pedo playing as the hit-em-up forward in the VFL (and dominating) is very different to the role that Tim Smith or Wieds plays.  Would be hard to imagine that Weids doesn't come in on the back of that, and Pedo is perhaps an option if TMac cant get up (god forbid) and plays a role closer to goal?

The setups around the restarts are an issue, and I believe we need a dedicated tagger (not 'tagger of the week').  I know we are building flexibility, but we want our best guys to be getting the ball and doing something with it, not scragging shirts all day.  We have some time over the bye to reset, but there is a lot that needs to be tweaked so that we get the most out of our setups.  Buckley outcoached Goody, no doubt.

Can we carry Viney and Jones both in the middle ATM???

[Deemania since 56 6,132]

15 hours ago, billyblanks29 said:

We've lost clearances the past two weeks despite being the best team in the comp prior to that.

Wonder if that's to do with the return of Jack Viney? Lacking a bit of touch going through there?

Geez, would hate to admit Viney's return is responsible for the nadir in clearances but that is a strong possibility when combined with a drop-off in form of others, as well. Viney needs several weeks of roving to get back into great form with killer instincts. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,370]

5 hours ago, timbo said:

Just wow! How much time did you spend breaking that down? (serious q, not being a smarty pants)

Bravo sir.

I didnt time it Timbo and hate going back through a loss.  No way i could mentaly handle a whole losing match unless i was getting paid!  Im guessing approx an hour and a quarter on the first 20 minutes.  Long enough to give the remote a good workout but short enough to avoid the war office sending me to the dog house.

[Demon Dynasty 15,370]

4 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Great post @Rusty Nails

Witnessed much of that myself. 

Pederson is a really limited player. Some of his decision making in regards to positioning, contest work, who to tackle, when to chase ball etc is very very poor. 

I really hadn't dissected him much in the past in detail Steve so it might be a one off and it was only the first quarter.  Not saying Pedders is all bad but that first 20 minutes of his was bog ordinary.   There was also another piece of play around the 5 or 10 minute mark on the Southern wing when he had a chance to disguise an out of bounds but fluffed it.  Then had to try and tackle the Pie player that got the resulting ball that bumbled back inside and missed that, only to watch him waltz off and deliver inside 50.

If the rest of his game was along these lines there is no way he is getting a follow up...unless the FD is a bit forgiving re concussion effect.

[Demon Dynasty 15,370]

4 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

That’s some serious dissecting @Rusty Nails.

Well done. Sitting ground level you miss a lot of what happens on the other side of the ground and I can’t bring myself to watching losing replays. Thank you.

 

Np DZ.  I was behind the goals Punt road end and considering the bulk of play in the first quarter was up the other end i needed to see more of what happened.   I hate going over losses also but must be a masochist. 20 minutes was all i could muster but much of the early damage and tone of the match was set by then i believe.

[chook fowler 18,211]

I see a Filth supporter was up to their usual thuggery by breaking the jaw and trying to pinch the bike of one of our fans leaving the MCG. They are really the lowest form of pond life. It’s happening every week.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,128]

How many contested marks in our Defensive 50 did O Mac, Hibberd and Jetta take between them? Would have been be lucky to have been one. Not good enough from our number 1 key defender and our 2 veterans down back.

Everyone has defended our defence due to our midfield being destroyed by the Pies. But I thought our defence was a disorganised rabble and failed our first Post Lever test miserably. If this keeps up,  Tom McDonald will be playing in defence by rd 19. 

[SFebes 4,692]

26 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

How many contested marks in our Defensive 50 did O Mac, Hibberd and Jetta take between them? Would have been be lucky to have been one. Not good enough from our number 1 key defender and our 2 veterans down back.

Everyone has defended our defence due to our midfield being destroyed by the Pies. But I thought our defence was a disorganised rabble and failed our first Post Lever test miserably. If this keeps up,  Tom McDonald will be playing in defence by rd 19. 

Hibberd, Jetta, Omac had zero contested marks between them so you’re correct. But also Collingwood lowered their eyes and didn’t bomb into 50 as much as we did.