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1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Evaluating Weideman vs anyone else in his draft year needs to be in context of team balance at the time he was drafted in November 2015.  Taylor said it would take a few years for him to hit his straps. 

And, we had Watts and Hogan to give Weidemen the space to develop.

There is no way Taylor could have anticipated our other 194+cm forwards (Watts and Hogan) to be traded out in the next few years.

If Taylor had thought losing them was likely he almost certainly would have taken a more 'ready to play' forward eg Curnow instead of Sam.  As it stands, I'm very happy we have Sam.

Context is important.

Good post.

I would add that you judge the success of a pick/trade at the end of a career, or at least half-way through, before making judgement calls as to success, failure or somewhere in between.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Good post.

I would add that you judge the success of a pick/trade at the end of a career, or at least half-way through, before making judgement calls as to success, failure or somewhere in between.

Jeepers I'd like to be your employee. A performance appraisal one every half a dozen years or so. Generous!

Realistically - again in an elite sporting competition - assessments have to be made more frequently than that. I don't really see what the big deal even is. Posters are discussing the line coaches, game plans, the senior coach etc. What gives the recruiters immunity? Good bloke factor?

Some superstars, some guns, plenty of quality foot soldiers - that's the job description. Enough to assemble a premiership quality list with adequate depth to cover for a modicum of injuries. Not a middling list, not a near enough is good enough top six list. A premiership capable list. That's what's required of the MFC head recruiter. 

My feeling is, like Goodwin and a host of them in the FD, Taylor's got 12 months to save and prolong his job. A lot of guys he's brought in have simply got to come on, plus he must nail this year's first and second round picks, if he's going to escape serious scrutiny. There must be serious improvement in his batting average. Soon.

Edited by Matsuo Basho
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4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

So for all us lesser mortals can you come out from behind your nickname and tell us who you really are, only to check out your bona fides

You seem to be such an expert on all facets of the modern game from recruiting to fitness via administration, you surely must be involved at the highest level

 

 

4 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

You keep missing the point. Is it deliberate? 

Merely being “involved at the highest level” doesn’t pass muster. You’ve got to be the best or very close to the best at what you do at the highest level ... or eventually you will get moved on.

This is not a charity. This is not park footy. Succeed or hit the bricks. It’s as simple as that. Always has been, always will.

So what you are saying is that you are the best at what you do on a daily basis.

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Just now, drysdale demon said:

 

So what you are saying is that you are the best at what you do on a daily basis.

Nah, he's actually not - 'old mate' just wants accountability.  

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2 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Nah, he's actually not - 'old mate' just wants accountability.  

No he is not, he is full of hyperbole

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8 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

No he is not, he is full of hyperbole

Not at all. If you care to actually read and take in my posts and opinions I frequently back up my hypotheses and suggestions, whether constructively critical or positively slanted, with facts, examples and analysis. You, like Satyriconhome and a few others, just choose to read everything I post through a "most opinions critical of the MFC are bad" lens. Blinkers. Plus my writing style is not for everyone.

What I rarely see from you, Sayricon and Co are interesting counter arguments, logically arranged viewpoints and so on. Just potshots and cheap dismissiveness. That's disappointing I guess. But there are enough posters on here with interesting takes on things to keep me around. Why don't you challenge yourself and join them? Be a little more open minded and willing to have your biases tested. Engage topics as opposed to always seeking to end them.

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3 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Whaaaat?? How could you possibly come to that conclusion?

Flyin' Ryan, Petrucelle, Rioli, Barrass, Darling, McGovern, Lycett, Shuey. All post-R1 draft and rookie draft picks. 4/5ths of a premiership winning spine and some incredibly talented role players. 

Come on LGoffy let's be real.

 

To be clear, by ordinary I meant just average, not 'ordinary' in the Australian euphemism sense!

I'm also referring to the relatively recent drafting, within a timeframe that could be compared to Jason Taylor.

Darling, McGovern and Shuey are all recruits from 2010 or earlier, and as I said, 15 of the Eagles best-22 have been in the system for at least 8 years. Oh, Happy Birthday to Andrew Gaff, who turned 27 today and his age was updated as I was looking at the tables!

Ryan, Petruccelle, Rioli and definitely top value selections (and, annoyingly, a collection of what we wish we had more of) but not the kind that pull a team up. Fact is the foundations of the Eagle's side were laid a long time ago. If the Eagles had been in our position six years ago, their drafting/recruiting (even giving them a bonus to account for our better first-round picks) woudl not have ben enough to transform them to a top-level side. 

West Coast starting players 27 years or older:

F:           Kennedy

HF:        Cripps     Darling

C :         Redden     Gaff

HB:        Hurn      McGovern     Sheppard  

B:         Jetta       Schofield

FOLL:   Naitanui  Shuey 

Int: Vardy, Hickey, Hutchings, Masten

Even dropping one of Vardy/Hickey, that means the Eagles only need to fill seven spots from the last nine years of talent coming into the AFL system. That balance is almost a precise reversal of the Demon's situation.

They clearly got something hugely right in their recruiting 'back in the day', but since the convenient separation point of the 2011 complete fail draft (which we also shanked massively), they have been only ok.

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1 minute ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Not at all. If you care to actually read and take in my posts and opinions I frequently back up my hypotheses and suggestions, whether constructively critical or positively slanted, with facts, examples and analysis. You, like Satyriconhome and a few others, just choose to read everything I post through a "most opinions critical of the MFC are bad" lens. Blinkers. Plus my writing style is not for everyone.

What I rarely see from you, Sayricon and Co are interesting counter arguments, logically arranged viewpoints and so on. Just potshots and cheap dismissiveness. That's disappointing I guess. But there are enough posters on here with interesting takes on things to keep me around. Why don't you challenge yourself and join them? Be a little more open minded and willing to have your biases tested. Engage topics as opposed to always seeking to end them.

What I don't do is pretend to know more than I actually do, which in my opinion quite a few poster's on this site do.

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Posted (edited)

Was Taylor involved with this deal .. pick 3 to GWS for Tyson & pick 9 Salem?

Tyson can’t get a game at North & Salem is good not in Kelly status...

Throw in Toumpas instead of Wines, another balls up 

8B9E2FCE-F786-47A9-8FD6-870C93E70761.jpeg.fcef61ab21561729b69fb2aaeed28db3.jpeg 

Edited by Demonsone

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3 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

8B9E2FCE-F786-47A9-8FD6-870C93E70761.jpeg.fcef61ab21561729b69fb2aaeed28db3.jpeg 

Do you think Taranto > Kelly???

Or just salivating?

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1 minute ago, Engorged Onion said:

Do you think Taranto > Kelly???

Or just salivating?

We should have had Kelly 

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6 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Was Taylor involved with this deal .. pick 3 to GWS for Tyson & pick 9 Salem?

Tyson can’t get a game at North & Salem is good not in Kelly status...

Throw in Toumpas instead of Wines, another balls up 

8B9E2FCE-F786-47A9-8FD6-870C93E70761.jpeg.fcef61ab21561729b69fb2aaeed28db3.jpeg 

You’d be thinking of Tim Harrington mate.

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Further evidence we are poor at selecting talent!

“Toumpas was a highly touted junior prospect, who captained the South Australian under 18 side and was selected in the draft ahead of the likes of Jake Stringer, Jackson Macrae, Ollie Wines, Nick Vlastuin and Brodie Grundy.”

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5 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Joining in the effort to assemble something to compare Taylor's record to - here we have the Eagles.

For brevity I've only included the 'good' or adequate enough picks, and any first rounders.

2018 - Nothing to report yet, though also no first rounder.

2017 - Jarrod Brander in the first round, no action so far. Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan and Jack Petruccelle making this draft look like a winner.

2016 - 1st round, Daniel Venebles. Then Willie Rioli and Jake Waterman of note, later.

2015 - No first round, and only pick playing regular games is Tom Cole

2014 - First Round Liam Duggan, only other is Jackson Nelson

2013 - First Round Dom Sheed, then Tom Barass.

2012 - no first round, then Mark Hutchings and Callum Sinclair

2011 - no first round, and Fraser Mcinnes? An entirely failed draft.

2010 - First round Gaff, priority pick Darling (it pays to tank, eh) also Scott Lycett and the rookie drafting of Jeremy McGovern

2009 - Brad Shepphad at pick 7, nothing else.

2008 - first round Nic Naitanui, priority pick Luke Shuey (ohh boy, isn't tanking awesome)

 

My read of it - aside from nailing their tanking seasons way back in 2008 and 2010, West Coast have actually been pretty ordinary with drafting.

They also traded in Josh Hill, then Sharrod Wellingham (for pick 18... Brodie Grundy), Elliot Yeo (for pick 28), Jack Redden (for pick 21), Lewis Jetta (for Callum Sinclair), and Nathan Vardy (for pick 72).

I'd say our list selection has been overall better than West Coast in recent years. Consider the Eagle shave 15 players in their current best-22 who are Gaff's age (26) or older, of whom 5 are over thirty, I don't think their recent drafting is a part of their success story.

In fact, for West Coast, it all comes back to successful tanking, and the Judd trade, of course.

and a massive home ground umpiring advantage.

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12 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

We should have had Kelly 

That is another decision that Taylor can’t entirely be absolved of responsibility for. Paul Roos has come out and staunchly defended what the MFC did there (as he would) but the question remains. Should Taylor have pushed to retain pick 2 harder at the time in order for us to secure Kelly? Why didn’t our recruiters appreciate him enough for the generational talent he’s proving to be now. Seems to me another big recruiting call we backed the wrong horse on.

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8 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

That is another decision that Taylor can’t entirely be absolved of responsibility for. Paul Roos has come out and staunchly defended what the MFC did there (as he would) but the question remains. Should Taylor have pushed to retain pick 2 harder at the time in order for us to secure Kelly? Why didn’t our recruiters appreciate him enough for the generational talent he’s proving to be now. Seems to me another big recruiting call we backed the wrong horse on.

Personally I’d sack the GWS recruiter for taking Boyd and Kelly at 1 and 2 when Patrick Cripps was available.

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28 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Personally I’d sack the GWS recruiter for taking Boyd and Kelly at 1 and 2 when Patrick Cripps was available.

And you accuse me of taking extreme angles to make an opaque (your word) point. Only LittleGoffy in here has taken the time and care to produce a valid counter argument. You can do better than this Nasher.

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1 hour ago, demonstone said:

The horse is dead.  You may stop flogging now.

What’s done is done but our club continues to repeat it’s poor recruiting 

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1 hour ago, Demonsone said:

Was Taylor involved with this deal .. pick 3 to GWS for Tyson & pick 9 Salem?

Tyson can’t get a game at North & Salem is good not in Kelly status...

Throw in Toumpas instead of Wines, another balls up 

8B9E2FCE-F786-47A9-8FD6-870C93E70761.jpeg.fcef61ab21561729b69fb2aaeed28db3.jpeg 

Paul Roos wanted the Dom Tyson trade more then Taylor. He identified Tyson as a "future star" from watching him in his NEAFL days when he worked at the Sydney Swans Academy. 

The Toumpas instead of Wines was Todd Viney who was our recruiting manager for 12 months while we used that time to scout Jason Taylor.

If we had kept Pick 2 we would have recruited Jack Billings who did his AIS program with us and thats where the interest started.

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40 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Personally I’d sack the GWS recruiter for taking Boyd and Kelly at 1 and 2 when Patrick Cripps was available.

lol, wasn't that SOS?

2011-2014, a drafting period so bad that it is probably the reason GWS don't have three premierships by now.

He really put his stamp on the 2012 draft.

Picks 1, 2, 3, 12, 14, 27, result: Lachie Whitfield, with 1.

2014 was a special one, three picks in the top ten and their best selection was Caleb Marchbank. Overall would have been the worst draft by any club ever, except for the academy picks Steele and Finlayson.

Actually, thinking about that 2014 draft, aside from De Goey there aren't many 'hindsight' better options who were actually available (not F/S or academy), compared to Petracca and Brayshaw. Maybe Lever. :D

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no matter how many misses Jason may have had it is pellucidly clear to me that he is streets ahead of Barry Prendergast.Craig Cameron and irrefutably Richard Griffith( i still cringe at the mention of the Coctatoo Collins twins )and I challenge you fine posters to provide any data to show otherwise.

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