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Is premiership coach Simon Goodwin the right guy....


Dees2014

Is Goodwin the right guy?  

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3 years and he still cannot come up with a method to connect the “star filled midfield” with the forwards …. and cannot either himself or bring in someone to get the forwards to even nail their set shots. 

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2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Adelaide worked us out in Round 10 and we have been very average since then, particularly up forward

Except for when we beat the Dogs, Brisbane and Port in that stretch.

Adelaide didn't "work us out". No one has "worked us out". If you think being "worked out" means our opponent being cleaner than us, hitting targets inside 50 and kicking goals rather than behinds, you don't really know what the phrase "worked out" means.

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32 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Except for when we beat the Dogs, Brisbane and Port in that stretch.

Adelaide didn't "work us out". No one has "worked us out". If you think being "worked out" means our opponent being cleaner than us, hitting targets inside 50 and kicking goals rather than behinds, you don't really know what the phrase "worked out" means.

I am talking about “above the shoulders”

An area we have been lacking for a long time

We have not played with the same intensity consistently since the Adelaide Game

Clubs have worked us out. Queen’s Birthday showed me that

The Filth are a total rabble on & off the field this year, but the whipped us. 

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20 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am talking about “above the shoulders”

An area we have been lacking for a long time

We have not played with the same intensity consistently since the Adelaide Game

Clubs have worked us out. Queen’s Birthday showed me that

The Filth are a total rabble on & off the field this year, but the whipped us. 

Again, since Adelaide we've beaten the Dogs, Brisbane and Port.

What exactly do you suggest clubs have "worked out" about us?

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Just now, titan_uranus said:

Again, since Adelaide we've beaten the Dogs, Brisbane and Port.

What exactly do you suggest clubs have "worked out" about us?

Talk to me in 4 weeks. Hopefully by then we have a forward line that is at least functional. The forward entries whilst Goodwin has been Coach have always been way out of balance,shocking returns for great effort. 
We will get Carved up in September if it is not addressed 

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1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

 

Firstly, you and I don't have the right to expect anything of the people within the 4 walls of MFC.  They're not playing for you Jnr, nor are they playing for me.

You're the one saying we expect to win every week. Have never seen anyone remotely come near to saying that. That's your own projection

 

Here are my thoughts on your points.

  • Like all teams (bar Geelong at this stage) - all teams have forward connection issues. If by problems you mean, players not delivering the ball on the chest, over kicking it, under kicking it, having oppositions mark it.   You may not have noticed it, but all our opponents do the same thing - either with more or less efficiency. We don't have forward connection issues - we have conversion issues. If we had our last 6 weeks conversions back to the mean of 53% for the league - this is what we would have kicked. (yes yes, if my aunty was my uncle)... 
  1. Collingwood 9.9 at 50% becomes 10.7 at 53% or thereabouts - so we still lose.
  2. Essendon 9.14 = 12.11 we still win
  3. GWS = 7.13 becomes 11.9 we win by 9 points
  4. Port 12.14 becomes 14.12 we win by 41 points
  5. Hawks 11.13 becomes 13.11 we win by 10 points
  6. Bulldogs 9.11 becomes 11.9 and we lose by 10 points to the Dogs, whom we have already beaten.

Really? That's it? Kick straighter and we win? Genious.

Goodwin has been talking about fixing our connection forward of centre for 3 years. It ain't fixed. If we keep kicking to the pockets or playing guys like ANB that turn the ball over it seems unlikely that it will be. 

  • Work is put into opposition players and structures. We oestensibly went head to head - and with 10 minutes to go we were 4 points down, and could have gone 2 up. Lapses happen from players all.the.[censored].time - it doesnt mean work hasn't gone into opposition playres
  •  
  • If we went head to head we failed. Bontompelli showed ou rmids how its done. Kinda predictable. He's been their best player against us in 90% of the games he's played against us.
  •  
  • It's been discussed a lot - but if you think by merely having a dominant ruckman means that you're going to win more clean possessions by your own midfielders - you are severely underestimating the rest of the competition (and the work THEY put in) or a best naive to how difficult constant clearances are.

Our clearance work is sub par with the midfield we have. It's indisputable. Whats more we are totally predictable. No one says we have to win them all but we halve very few and lose a good deal. Oliver and Petracca are playing over 85% game time unlike most other midfields. Aside from the occasion of Pickett going in there we don't change much 

  • Who thinks our midfield is star studded? Do you?

Really? Clearly the coaches do. We have three of the top players in Gawn Petracca and Oliver in the coaches votes.

  • I'm not sure how to respond to - coaches know how to coach? 

They can't seem to fix problems we have been having for 3 years like poor conversion and losing to lower placed teams. We missed finals in 17 and 19 losing to lower placed teams.Nothing has changed this year and it will cost us.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Talk to me in 4 weeks. Hopefully by then we have a forward line that is at least functional. The forward entries whilst Goodwin has been Coach have always been way out of balance,shocking returns for great effort. 
We will get Carved up in September if it is not addressed 

Why in the world would you think that, miraculously, the forward entries (as well as the goal kicking) will sort themselves out having been uncoordinated and dysfunctional for years?

Ye hath greater faith than I. 

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1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Luckily we beat Brisvegas 

You can argue it but up forward we are very average 

As per my question we beat the Dogs and Lions in that fortnight

33 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Talk to me in 4 weeks. Hopefully by then we have a forward line that is at least functional. The forward entries whilst Goodwin has been Coach have always been way out of balance,shocking returns for great effort. 
We will get Carved up in September if it is not addressed 

So instead of saying I was wrong about the Adelaide game, talk to me in 4 weeks.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The fact is we've been struggling with our conversion the last 5 weeks outside the Port game. Last night was two good teams playing each other, the Dogs just had more polish and were the better side on the night

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19 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Why in the world would you think that, miraculously, the forward entries (as well as the goal kicking) will sort themselves out having been uncoordinated and dysfunctional for years?

Ye hath greater faith than I. 

It is more hope that it will come together Mono

I enjoyed the ride while it lasted, I just think our flaws are now being exposed 

We do have time on our side though…

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8 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

As per my question we beat the Dogs and Lions in that fortnight

So instead of saying I was wrong about the Adelaide game, talk to me in 4 weeks.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The fact is we've been struggling with our conversion the last 5 weeks outside the Port game. Last night was two good teams playing each other, the Dogs just had more polish and were the better side on the night

You and i never agree 

and obviously we watch the games differently 

If you can’t see that we have major problems converting forward entries into good scoring opportunities, then we are watching different games 

We are no chance against September Teams playing like that, we have serious work to do, otherwise we will be out in straight sets.  
Good Sides take their chances when they arrive, last night we failed to do that. (Umpires didn’t help) but we still missed far too many chances. 
Good sides are consistent. and that, we are not. 
But it’s still July

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3 hours ago, Billy said:

Fair dinkum, 17 other clubs were dreaming of having Yze as a midfield coach & getting Williams was a masterstroke.

Pull your head out of your backside you winging whining pathetic excuse of a supporter, we're 2 points off being on top of the ladder & yet you still carry on as if the clubs fighting for the wooden spoon

 

No, 17 other clubs would not dream of having Adem Yze as a midfield coach. Why? Because he has no experience of working with midfielders. Experience in offense and defense at Hawthorn, and I’m not for one second suggesting Yze doesn’t bring a wealth of knowledge to this group, and our club as a whole, but he brings no experience as a midfield coach. Goodwin put Yze in charge of our midfield. We are seeing our midfield get beaten in clearances, and not show any sign of effectively utilizing Max Gawn’s tap dominance. He is essentially going to waste. As for Yze, I am not doubting what he potentially brings to this club. I am doubting him as a midfield coach. Results are not looking good there. Perhaps he’d be suited in offense up forward and Stafford moved to midfield coach. 

 

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35 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

No, 17 other clubs would not dream of having Adem Yze as a midfield coach. Why? Because he has no experience of working with midfielders. Experience in offense and defense at Hawthorn, and I’m not for one second suggesting Yze doesn’t bring a wealth of knowledge to this group, and our club as a whole, but he brings no experience as a midfield coach. Goodwin put Yze in charge of our midfield. We are seeing our midfield get beaten in clearances, and not show any sign of effectively utilizing Max Gawn’s tap dominance. He is essentially going to waste. As for Yze, I am not doubting what he potentially brings to this club. I am doubting him as a midfield coach. Results are not looking good there. Perhaps he’d be suited in offense up forward and Stafford moved to midfield coach. 

 

It has merit.  So Yze takes over Staffotd's forward line Coaching role.  And we put a new midfield coach in (and no it's not MN!).

Goody to Yze & the newb midfield line coach on their first morning..."Boys you got four bloody weeks... four bloody weeks!"

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I’ve changed my mind on Goody. Thought he was a dud but he has a proper coaching team around him this year and the game plan up to a few weeks ago was working a treat. This thread has been pretty quiet for most of the year.

Players form has dropped off. Could be due to training loads, I’m not sure on this

Our conversion isn’t good enough. For all the issues pointed out about our center clearance work and other issues up the ground we’re still creating enough chances to win. I'm praying that BB finds form

Losing to the weaker teams is an attitude / mindset issue. Coaches and players need to own that one. Drop off against Hawthorn in particular was unforgivable.

We have players in the team who aren’t good enough imv (ANB and Harmes).

I think Goody is a good coach. Is he good enough? Time will tell but we still have a lot to play for this season.

Massive game against the Suns next weekend.. We simply have to win. Big test of our character.

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Homework this week. 
 

Goodwin 1.   Caleb Daniel was left alone all night.  The skilled defender setup many bulldog counter attacks.  Have to ensure he’s manned up next time we play them.  Simply have to be a smarter coach than that.  
 

Stafford 1.  Forwards conversions.  It’s goalkicking practice but also getting to the right spots.  Too many leads to the pockets rather than the hotspot 15-20 out which brings in forward crumbing goals. 

Yze 1.  Mids skills. Too many missed targets again. Trac needs extra sessions. Too much wasted footy that kills all the great contested work. 
 

Goodwin 2.  Team management.  A few blokes really have been down over the last month. Rest Jordon and Jackson.  Needs to give Tom “splinters” Sparrow more games and less medisub action. 
 

Goodwin 3.  Send the message.  Anb gets the footy but does nothing with it or turns into trouble.  A weeks detention at Casey.  Harmes is the same.  Fumbles and walks into trouble. Disposal is often wasted footy.  Attention to detail is critical. 

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10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You and i never agree 

and obviously we watch the games differently 

If you can’t see that we have major problems converting forward entries into good scoring opportunities, then we are watching different games 

We are no chance against September Teams playing like that, we have serious work to do, otherwise we will be out in straight sets.  
Good Sides take their chances when they arrive, last night we failed to do that. (Umpires didn’t help) but we still missed far too many chances. 
Good sides are consistent. and that, we are not. 
But it’s still July

We don’t agree because you make ridiculous statements such as we’ve been average since the Adelaide game in Round 10. That is something I won’t agree on because it is totally untrue.

Our next 2 games were our defeat of the Dogs in what was our most complete performance of the season.

And to say we got lucky against Brisbane is absolutely a lack of ability in understanding the game. After half time against the Lions we played the game at a higher tempo and they couldn’t go with us

As for your comment for me not seeing we have a major problem with conversion, well below is what you responded to. Well there it is in the final paragraph

10 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

As per my question we beat the Dogs and Lions in that fortnight

So instead of saying I was wrong about the Adelaide game, talk to me in 4 weeks.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The fact is we've been struggling with our conversion the last 5 weeks outside the Port game. Last night was two good teams playing each other, the Dogs just had more polish and were the better side on the night

 

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20 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

We don’t agree because you make ridiculous statements such as we’ve been average since the Adelaide game in Round 10. That is something I won’t agree on because it is totally untrue.

Our next 2 games were our defeat of the Dogs in what was our most complete performance of the season.

And to say we got lucky against Brisbane is absolutely a lack of ability in understanding the game. After half time against the Lions we played the game at a higher tempo and they couldn’t go with us

As for your comment for me not seeing we have a major problem with conversion, well below is what you responded to. Well there it is in the final paragraph

 

As i stated. We disagree 

Good Teams are not dysfunctional up forward 

We have much work ahead of us 

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35 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

As i stated. We disagree 

Good Teams are not dysfunctional up forward 

We have much work ahead of us 

I read that with a Trump accent and it made perfect sense. 

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47 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Good Teams are not dysfunctional up forward 

I'm not sure how you measure what a 'good' team is.

So with that in mind, here is a brief analysis on  goals kicked and I50's, thus far in 2021.

Now bare in mind, I am no maths guru - so if this is the wrong way to make sense of these stats - I'm happy to be corrected.

Brisbane:   56.7 / 13.4 =  23.63%

Bulldogs: 52.7 /12.9 = 24.47%

Sydney: 53.9 /12.9 = 23.93%

Geelong: 53.1 /12.7 = 23.96%

Melbourne: 54.7 /11.9 =21.7%

 

So what I'm surprised at what I am surprised about is - that for even the 'good' (top 4 teams) - less than 1 in 4 entries means a goal will be kicked. That's 75% frustration/disappointment from a supporters perspective - even for the best teams! 

Perhaps that 3% difference between the Dogs and us, is what leads you to believe we're more dysfunctional?

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49 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I'm not sure how you measure what a 'good' team is.

So with that in mind, here is a brief analysis on  goals kicked and I50's, thus far in 2021.

Now bare in mind, I am no maths guru - so if this is the wrong way to make sense of these stats - I'm happy to be corrected.

Brisbane:   56.7 / 13.4 =  23.63%

Bulldogs: 52.7 /12.9 = 24.47%

Sydney: 53.9 /12.9 = 23.93%

Geelong: 53.1 /12.7 = 23.96%

Melbourne: 54.7 /11.9 =21.7%

 

So what I'm surprised at what I am surprised about is - that for even the 'good' (top 4 teams) - less than 1 in 4 entries means a goal will be kicked. That's 75% frustration/disappointment from a supporters perspective - even for the best teams! 

Perhaps that 3% difference between the Dogs and us, is what leads you to believe we're more dysfunctional?

Screen Shot 2021-07-26 at 10.40.48 am.png

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Onion ? i am looking at the WAY we score. We waste far too many opportunities after a lot of hard work previously. It has been an ongoing problem for most of Goodwin’s term thus far. 
It needs to be fixed before The Finals, otherwise we are wasting our time

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31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Onion ? i am looking at the WAY we score. We waste far too many opportunities after a lot of hard work previously.

So is this a critique of AFL in general?  Statistically there is very little difference from any other contending top team, around the notion of 'wasted opportunities'. 75% of all deliveries don't result in a goal. Should Melbourne be a statistical outlier for some magical reason?

Or is your consternation around the aesthetic of how Melbourne play?

Our method of repeat entries, is based around a premise that - statistically 75% of the time (or worse) - across all teams in the AFL, there is not a goal scored when it goes inside your 50. So, what do you do to capitalise as much as possible. Well, you recruit May and Lever to act not just as a wall in our D50, but in kick outs and dump kicks as a wall on our Half Forward Line to get as many entries as possible - with a knowledge that the forward line will be critically crowded. 

Gone are the days of teams (ie Saints) getting through our Half forward line and getting easy goals out the back. That has been remedied. 

I think we'd all agree our deliveries I50 looks to be worse than others, but statistically it isn't. BUT until we get classier ball users to deliver into the 50, then we're not going to be a statistical outlier. 

So the trade off for me is, delivering a ball into a congested forward line multiple times vs - having the ball in our d50 and trying to get teams on the spread/counter attack. I know which end I'd much prefer the football.

I reckon I'll be watching next game now with an understanding that 1 out of every 4 entries results in a goal. And set my expectations around that.

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8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I reckon I'll be watching next game now with an understanding that 1 out of every 4 entries results in a goal. And set my expectations around that.

Weren't we No 1 in the AFL during the first 10 rounds ? With 1 in 3 entries resulting in a goal?

If so is that a statistical anomoly and we are now coming back to the pack?

It's obvious to many that our goalkicking and our method going forward is has been getting worse not better.

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8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

So is this a critique of AFL in general?  Statistically there is very little difference from any other contending top team, around the notion of 'wasted opportunities'. 75% of all deliveries don't result in a goal. Should Melbourne be a statistical outlier for some magical reason?

Or is your consternation around the aesthetic of how Melbourne play?

Our method of repeat entries, is based around a premise that - statistically 75% of the time (or worse) - across all teams in the AFL, there is not a goal scored when it goes inside your 50. So, what do you do to capitalise as much as possible. Well, you recruit May and Lever to act not just as a wall in our D50, but in kick outs and dump kicks as a wall on our Half Forward Line to get as many entries as possible - with a knowledge that the forward line will be critically crowded. 

Gone are the days of teams (ie Saints) getting through our Half forward line and getting easy goals out the back. That has been remedied. 

I think we'd all agree our deliveries I50 looks to be worse than others, but statistically it isn't. BUT until we get classier ball users to deliver into the 50, then we're not going to be a statistical outlier. 

So the trade off for me is, delivering a ball into a congested forward line multiple times vs - having the ball in our d50 and trying to get teams on the spread/counter attack. I know which end I'd much prefer the football.

I reckon I'll be watching next game now with an understanding that 1 out of every 4 entries results in a goal. And set my expectations around that.

I am looking at the Way Melbourne play. 
I am not disputing your stats at all, but the WAY a team constructs those figures can be different. 
 

We blow early opportunities far too often, and that would be so costly in Finals. 
Call it method, i am not sure. But it isn’t working so far

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9 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Weren't we No 1 in the AFL during the first 10 rounds ? With 1 in 3 entries resulting in a goal?

If so is that a statistical anomoly and we are now coming back to the pack?

It's obvious to many that our goalkicking and our method going forward is has been getting worse not better.

The first points a good one Jnr, I can’t recall the offensive stats but I know we were on ‘record pace’ from a defensive I50 conversion perspective up to rd 11.

I fall into the camp that during winter (and we’re still there) that scores cross the entire competition drop, partially due to decreasing shot on goal, but more about the accuracy not being there. It picks up again in the warmer months. There is also statistical evidence of that (I’ve posted it before, but I’m on my phone so won’t do it now) 

The method hasn’t changed, so it’s not worse in of itself, it will only improve in the next few weeks as environmental conditions change. 
 

I genuinely feel, there is a mismatch between some supporters view points that  ‘teams are working us out’ vs other factors that drive inaccuracy, that is never spoken about publicly  

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

I'm not sure how you measure what a 'good' team is.

So with that in mind, here is a brief analysis on  goals kicked and I50's, thus far in 2021.

Now bare in mind, I am no maths guru - so if this is the wrong way to make sense of these stats - I'm happy to be corrected.

Brisbane:   56.7 / 13.4 =  23.63%

Bulldogs: 52.7 /12.9 = 24.47%

Sydney: 53.9 /12.9 = 23.93%

Geelong: 53.1 /12.7 = 23.96%

Melbourne: 54.7 /11.9 =21.7%

 

So what I'm surprised at what I am surprised about is - that for even the 'good' (top 4 teams) - less than 1 in 4 entries means a goal will be kicked. That's 75% frustration/disappointment from a supporters perspective - even for the best teams! 

Perhaps that 3% difference between the Dogs and us, is what leads you to believe we're more dysfunctional?

Screen Shot 2021-07-26 at 10.40.48 am.png

Screen Shot 2021-07-26 at 10.40.12 am.png

If that data is 18 rounds worth of data we are still a fair way behind here EO.  That differential carries some significant weight given 18 rounds was an entire season in 2020.

If we don't fix the conversion rate vs number of entries and it remains similar coming in to finals i am also of the view we'll be out in straight sets.  Could be just one game IF we don't get our act together up forward and out of the middle starting this week and we miss top four.

Let's hope we get to see the rest of our matches played in dry conditions so we can at least test out the Macca/BB combo and our connection capability coming inside 50 over the next four rounds prior to finals.  Which are usually also conducted in better playing conditions.

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    SKIN THE CATS by Whispering Jack

    The task ahead for the Demons as they wend their way down the Princes Freeway to Geelong on Saturday night will be to skin the Cats. For them to come away with the points from this game would mark an historic occasion for the club as it will finish on top of the ladder for the first time since its last premiership year, 1964. And it was in that year, that a trip to Corio Bay to meet the reigning premiers in Round 12, was one of the catalysts for Melbourne’s surge to the flag. It was a top o

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    REACH FOR THE STARS by George on the Outer

    It was a game of great significance for the Melbourne Football Club. A win would see them keep top spot on the ladder with one round remaining. To achieve top place in the Round for Reach when we are all inspired to “Be Like Jim” and reach for the stars was a great way of honouring one of our heroes. All the better given that it was done by way of an emphatic 41 point win against Adelaide! It is worth remembering that, but for the umpiring mistake in the previous encounter with the Crows, t

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    TICKETS PLEASE by The Oracle

    A lot of water has passed under Princes Bridge in the five years since Melbourne last met Adelaide on the MCG. The Crows were riding high at the time while the Demons were mid-table and scrambling for a win to stay in the race for the finals. The 30,000 fans who had tickets to the game were thoroughly entertained by a close, high scoring affair that ended in tears for fans of the home team. Not even an eight-goal second term could help them.   Times have changed.    In the fi

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    ELECTRIFYING by George On The Outer

    What more can they throw at the Demons of 2021? Covid restrictions, hubs, aircraft circling between airports before landing for games and now a match stopped for 30 minutes to give a flagging opponent its second wind? To date, none of those distractions has swayed the team from their winning objectives. The game against West Coast in Perth can be marked on their report card as another positive outcome after yet another test. There was much at stake for both sides.  Melbourne had t

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