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Is Goodwin the right guy?  

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29 minutes ago, Macca said:

Sacking and paying Goodwin out goes onto the FD spend for the season that he might get sacked.  And there is a limit on the FD spend allowed. 

So it is highly unlikely that we can sack Goodwin even if wanted to.  Certainly not this year anyway and next year is the first year of a 3 year extension so the sacking of Goodwin next year is also not feasible.  He'd be on guaranteed money. 

It's part of the soft salary cap so yes it will cost but let's face it if 2020 doesn't deliver ( not sure what that means at present)... he's gone.. the club will fail if we do not get success out of this list

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Our team is not "mentally weak" but there's a significant number of posters here who are and don't seem to be able to see the forest for the trees. Saturday night was bitterly disappointing - the

You're good at making sweeping generalisations.  And yes, there's unquestionably areas where the team needs to improve.  But I don't agree with your assessment of Goodwin.  We're lucky to have him.

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Goody has had a lot to deal with recently, culminating in the death of his father in law this week.

Would suggest he would get a fair bit of understanding from the club in relation to performance so talk of sackings and blowtorches may be off the mark at the moment.

 

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26 minutes ago, stranga said:

As I said earlier today, Goodwin wont be our coach this time next year, we are all biding and wasting our time became the trigger cant be pulled this season for contractual/financial reasons. This guy  is way out of his depth and until the negative results will continue to pile up.

 

Wanna put a wager on it?

Goody will be here until he comes out of contract at least.

He aint going no where

Edited by dazzledavey36
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1 minute ago, stuie said:

Goody has had a lot to deal with recently, culminating in the death of his father in law this week.

Would suggest he would get a fair bit of understanding from the club in relation to performance so talk of sackings and blowtorches may be off the mark at the moment.

 

That’s very sad to hear. 

I have no doubt he is struggling under the pressure. His demeanor this year has changed rapidly. 

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I think we need to stay the course. Certainly for the lifetime of Goody's contract. Port, Geelong and Richmond are good examples in the last 20 years of why persisting with a plan for as long as possible is rewarded.

Do I think Goody is the right man? I'm not sure. There's no way he'll be sacked this year or next and I think that's a good thing. We need stability. If Bolton can coach Carlton for as long as he did without success, Goodwin will certainly get more than a year to show his worth after guiding us to a prelim.

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2 minutes ago, A F said:

I think we need to stay the course. Certainly for the lifetime of Goody's contract. Port, Geelong and Richmond are good examples in the last 20 years of why persisting with a plan for as long as possible is rewarded.

Do I think Goody is the right man? I'm not sure. There's no way he'll be sacked this year or next and I think that's a good thing. We need stability. If Bolton can coach Carlton for as long as he did without success, Goodwin will certainly get more than a year to show his worth after guiding us to a prelim.

we cannot afford to waste the next four years... it's that simple.

The clubs you name have money , supporters and relative power... we have...............????

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38 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

It's part of the soft salary cap so yes it will cost but let's face it if 2020 doesn't deliver ( not sure what that means at present)... he's gone.. the club will fail if we do not get success out of this list

Technical issues aside,  I reckon Goodwin can turn things around.  If not,  he's in trouble.  He won't be going anywhere this season though.  He needs some new assistants together with some fresh ideas from those new assistants. 

And it isn't a stretch for the club to have a mid-season review and go in a somewhat different direction as of our next game.  Change things up.  FD,  leadership group & senior players all involved. 

We've got nothing to lose as we won't be playing finals this season.  Personally,  I reckon we need to win as many games as possible this season rather than aiming for a top end draft pick (and therefore tank the season)

Besides which,  we can trade ourselves into a better position in the draft if we have a player or players in mind. 

10 wins is still possible but we certainly need to get a hurry on DJ.  8 wins offers some hope as well but a 16 or 17 loss season would be disastrous for the club. 

Edited by Macca
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3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Technical issues aside,  I reckon Goodwin can turn things around.  If not,  he's in trouble.  Won't be this season though.  He needs some new assistants together with some fresh ideas from those new assistants. 

And it isn't a stretch for the club to have a mid-season review and go in a somewhat different direction as of our next game.  Change things up.  FD,  leadership group & senior players all involved. 

We've got nothing to lose as we won't be playing finals this season.  Personally,  I reckon we need to win as many games as possible this season rather than aiming for a top end draft pick (and therefore tank the season)

Besides which,  we can trade ourselves into a better position in the draft if we have a player or players in mind. 

10 wins is still possible but we certainly need to get a hurry on DJ.  8 wins offers some hope as well but a 16 or 17 loss season would be disastrous for the club. 

Sensible post Macca but he has not shown a great turning circle as yet.

Not really concerned about this year anymore save that it develops consistency for next year.

In that sense I would be happy to win say the last five games with a coherent line up.

2020 is where it's at.. fail that and well............

Sure our list could be better but the cattle are as good as we are likely to see (and have seen) for the last and next ten years.

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13 minutes ago, A F said:

I think we need to stay the course. Certainly for the lifetime of Goody's contract. Port, Geelong and Richmond are good examples in the last 20 years of why persisting with a plan for as long as possible is rewarded.

Do I think Goody is the right man? I'm not sure. There's no way he'll be sacked this year or next and I think that's a good thing. We need stability. If Bolton can coach Carlton for as long as he did without success, Goodwin will certainly get more than a year to show his worth after guiding us to a prelim.

Port, Geelong and Richmond are good examples in the last 20 years of why persisting with a plan for as long as possible is rewarded.

what?

Port have won one premiership in 22 years, Dump Road one in 39 years and Geelong have been an unmitigated disaster in finals since Scott coached Thompson's third premiership seven years ago. And it's working well for the Aints right now . . . sticking with no-clue Richo. 

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I think the coaches have been far too slow to adjust to pick up some obvious issues with our game. The defence was far too aggressive early in the year and pressing up the ground too far and it took until the Richmond game for us to hold our structure.

The selection of Jones and Lewis on the wings was an easily foreseeable bungle.

Jones was excellent at half back against Adelaide last week and then stupidly moved back onto the wing this week.

I don't understand the continual selections of Spargo, Garlett and Fritsch. Spargo is not up to it physically and Garlett and Fritsch don't commit to the contest to an AFL level.

Gawn was hitting the ball backwards in the ruck far too often early in the year.

I don't expect the coaches to get everything right and often Goodwin irons things out eventually, but it should not take so long.

We aren't going to get rid of the coach with the new salary cap anytime soon so hopefully he can react a bit quicker when there is such easily identifiable issues going forward.

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2 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

We aren't going to get rid of the coach with the new salary cap anytime soon so hopefully he can react a bit quicker when there is such easily identifiable issues going forward.

Carlton and North did... it's a soft salary cap.... 50 cents in the dollar so it's not insurmountable if the alternative is reduction in memberships...

2020 is the key year

Edited by Diamond_Jim
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21 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

we cannot afford to waste the next four years... it's that simple.

The clubs you name have money , supporters and relative power... we have...............????

Diamond Jim, if that is your real name, now is not the time for knee jerk reactions to a poor half a season after winning two finals last year. Richmond were under pressure to sack Hardwick in 2016 and they held firm and win premiership in 2017, Collingwood similar in 2017 and make GF in 2018 and look the goods again this year. Similar with Hawthorn in Clarkson's early years.

On the flipside, Carlton got rid of Ratten for Malthouse because they saw their window closing and look at what happened.

Goodwin is a young coach who is learning but he has shown enough last year to indicate he has what it takes. 

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4 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Carlton and North did... it's a soft salary cap.... 50 cents in the dollar so it's not insurmountable if the alternative is reduction in memberships...

2020 is the key year

Neither Scott or Bolton had three years of guaranteed money.

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3 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Diamond Jim, if that is your real name, now is not the time for knee jerk reactions to a poor half a season after winning two finals last year. Richmond were under pressure to sack Hardwick in 2016 and they held firm and win premiership in 2017, Collingwood similar in 2017 and make GF in 2018 and look the goods again this year. Similar with Hawthorn in Clarkson's early years.

On the flipside, Carlton got rid of Ratten for Malthouse because they saw their window closing and look at what happened.

Goodwin is a young coach who is learning but he has shown enough last year to indicate he has what it takes. 

read the rest of my posts... I have said his performance in 2020 is the key

another season like 2019 and ...............

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14 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Port, Geelong and Richmond are good examples in the last 20 years of why persisting with a plan for as long as possible is rewarded.

what?

Port have won one premiership in 22 years, Dump Road one in 39 years and Geelong have been an unmitigated disaster in finals since Scott coached Thompson's third premiership seven years ago. And it's working well for the Aints right now . . . sticking with no-clue Richo. 

Williams was under pressure for a few years before Port won in '04. Thompson was under pressure for years before finally delivering and Hardwick hadn't won a final in 8 years at the helm of Richmond before winning a flag.

Patience paid in each case. It's not like Goodwin is Neeld. Neeld would not have coached us into a prelim.

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Goodwin is the right person and he will be there for the duration of his  contract and you can quote me on that when the time comes.

We will improve there is no doubt. With all the injuries that went under the knife during the pre season has not helped our cause. Just seeing the better players back is a good start now and a bit late to make a charge at the 8 I suppose.  

I say we will learn more about Goody  next year as IMO l believe we will make the finals. Yes you have to have faith in the personnel we have and l do. I have no doubt that we will be hungry to do well next year. Goody is a solid coach and the knocker may as well get use to it  he is going nowhere any time soon. And that is a fact.

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3 hours ago, Jaded said:

Well what’s changed since this thread has been raised, apart from our rapid decline?

The fact is, we barely made finals last year. We had two good wins against out of form Geelong and a declining Hawthorn and then got destroyed by the eventual premiers. 

Since then we have gone backwards in every critical stat. Yes injuries have not been kind to us, no doubt about that. But we also went into the season totally unprepared for the 6-6-6 rule. We lost Hogan and didn’t even look at replacing him with another forward putting all our eggs into the TMac basket. We did nothing to improve our speed or ball use or two way running or inside 50 kicking. 

So as it stands, other than Goodwin earning himself a 4 year extension, he has done absolutely nothing to make me think he is capable of being a premiership coach. And all I care about is winning premierships. 

Can’t argue with any of this. I just wish like hell it weren’t the case. We’ve been worked out so bad it’s not even funny anymore. Lack leadership, footskill and my god effectiveness up forward. At no point today I felt like we’d kick a winning score. You look up forward and T-Mac can’t get near it, Garlett off with the fairies, no-one else there when it gets to ground. The fact that we have to rely on Jayden Hunt to kick a winning score is not right at all. 

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I’m not sure he is the right guy but I also don’t think he is the wrong guy.

He hasn’t been allowed to execute things this year the way he wanted to for a number of reasons, mainly cattle availability. He was a superstar player, knows the game inside and out, has the passion for the game and clearly demonstrates he wants to learn. I just wish he’d drop the robotic demeanour for the media appearances and speak from the heart.

Next year is the true test. I have no doubt the club will go full tilt at an extensive and laborious injury free pre season to set us up properly. We need to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. Deep down I think Goodwin is up for it.

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7 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Sensible post Macca but he has not shown a great turning circle as yet.

Not really concerned about this year anymore save that it develops consistency for next year.

In that sense I would be happy to win say the last five games with a coherent line up.

2020 is where it's at.. fail that and well............

Sure our list could be better but the cattle are as good as we are likely to see (and have seen) for the last and next ten years.

We could trade some valuable commodities in the post-season if the need to go in a new direction is decided upon.  'rjay' made mention of this earlier this season and I am leaning his way now.

I reckon anything is possible to be honest.  We need an injection of skill,  pace,  goal kicking ability,  a will to win as well as a decent game plan.  There's no finesse and our finishing skills are woeful.  And our kicking to position is disbolically bad for an AFL outfit.  We miss targets with 2 metre handpasses.  How is that even possible? 

And that is just the start of it when the aim is the premiership. 

And I don't believe that right now we're in any sort of premiership window. 

We've got some base talent but between the ears and above the shoulders we're floundering.  We had close to our best team available today and we were abysmal. 

Collingwood didn't even play that well either yet they were never troubled.  In the end they nearly doubled our score.

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13 minutes ago, A F said:

Williams was under pressure for a few years before Port won in '04. Thompson was under pressure for years before finally delivering and Hardwick hadn't won a final in 8 years at the helm of Richmond before winning a flag.

Patience paid in each case. It's not like Goodwin is Neeld. Neeld would not have coached us into a prelim.

I concede your point on Thompson and Hardwick only. But they are outliers . . . not the new normal. Williams won two minor premierships before bagging it in '04 . . . hardly "under pressure". 

Sticking with duds has been an unmitigated disaster for North, St Kilda, Adelaide, Freeo, Giants. Port and others over the last 10 years. This is actually the norm. And we signed up our dud, completely unnecessarily, for four more years. Absolutely bizarre. 

Edited by Queanbeyan Demon
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Our game plan is run and gun at all times.

Last year with minimal injuries and a forward line kicking goals it was fine.

However, it’s not a sustainable game plan which can be replicated each week, we need to be able to play a slower style of play with good kicking skills when we can’t just use brute effort to beat the opposition.

Goodwin doesn’t seem to have this alternate game style.

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