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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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20 minutes ago, ProDee said:

No-one is asking you to read it.

That comment is so often used on DL but it is so banal and often without relevance to the point being made.

The point was to get behind Goodwin and this team which is more likely to happen with a thread that is less divisive/negative and more relevant to where the coaches and the team are today.  

As usual we will agree to disagree.

 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero

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4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That comment is so often used on DL but it is so banal and often without relevance to the point being made.

The point was to get behind Goodwin and this team which is more likely to happen with a thread that is less divisive/negative and more relevant to where the coaches and the team are today.  

As usual we will agree to disagree.

 

Then start a new thread with a different slant.

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46 minutes ago, SFebes said:

I still think there's holes in the gameplan and we still do silly things, just because we scraped into finals doesnt let Goodwin off the hook. Winning a final is a pass seeing we should have made them last year. If he goes deep and adapts and brings home the bacon, hand him an open cheque and install a bronze statue.

What are the holes in the gameplan? What evidence do you have?

I'm not saying we don't have challenges, but this is just a throwaway line without substance.

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{Goodwin is the right guy, thread merge}

Here are my reasons

  • cohesion and love in the team
  • adventurous tactics and as a coach who is learning, is prepared to honour what he is trying to get the players to do...risk and reward, whilst refining.
  • the players clearly are bonded and have bought in to the game style
  • plenty of team stats to support high levels of current competence AND hope for the short, mid and long term future.
Edited by Grapeviney
Thread merge
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Rather than closing a thread can we ban posters that ask for threads to be closed?

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1 minute ago, Axis of Bob said:

What are the holes in the gameplan? What evidence do you have?

I'm not saying we don't have challenges, but this is just a throwaway line without substance.

Apart from last two weeks the bombing long into 50, Johnno Brown highlighted that Hogan was part of the problem here. Easy goals out the back, one way running with lack of defensive pressure when teams get out the back, kamikatze game style (no tempo), inability to stop teams getting a run on and can be easy to score against, reluctant to make changes within quarters but can at breaks. That's just to name a few. To his credit, with a few injuries, he's done very well in recent weeks.

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18 minutes ago, Danelska said:

New thread, different slant.

Here are my reasons

  • cohesion and love in the team
  • adventurous tactics and as a coach who is learning, is prepared to honour what he is trying to get the players to do...risk and reward, whilst refining.
  • the players clearly are bonded and have bought in to the game style
  • plenty of team stats to support high levels of current competence AND hope for the short, mid and long term future.

Are you sure this town is big enough for two of these threads? :P

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Overall at the moment, seems to be doing a great job.  Love his coaching from a team cohesion, skills development, belief,  motivation point of view.

 

Not 100 percent convinced re:

gameday coaching - eg response to momentum swings where we concede massive scores (geelong last qrtr)

- though given our great 3rd qrtr stats,  maybe im wrong. 

 

Team selection decisions also still questionable though time will tell. 

 

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Why do we have to close threads people don’t like?

Free Speech was an Australian birth right when i was growing up, now it is under serious threat. 

If you don’t like it....

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4 minutes ago, Maluski said:

Overall at the moment, seems to be doing a great job.  Love his coaching from a team cohesion, skills development, belief,  motivation point of view.

Team selection decisions also still questionable though time will tell.

Solid not great perhaps. But agree with rest of Maluski.

Still developing. Gets out coached by the old stagers and needs to find the key to extracting more value from our dominance of forward line entries and to find the right selection mix of players with their best positions/roles. Does come with time in the job.

Go dees.

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I agree that he is:

  • Yes his match day coaching needs improvement. But honestly we were unlucky to lose to Geelong and it was the players fault not the coach. He did not miss the easy goals against Sydney. 
  • Look at some of the coaching moves that have worked. Tommy Mac, Melksham, Harmes and now just a recent one ANB to defensive forward run with not just run around alot.
  • He kept the confidence in the playing group when many thought we would drop our bundle.

Some of the selection moves were rubbish. But the last few weeks have been spot on. 

He is a learning coach. Look at Clarksons first three years. anyone remember the keepings off games when they would lose but have 100 more touches. 

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Growing into the job. Has stopped his 'gotcha!' tactical moves that were found out and beaten by better, more experienced coaches.

I do like his contant mantra about how we need to play our brand. For too long I've seen us try and re-invent our style based on who won last year, whereas he just keeps saying we will play our style, and if we do it properly then he has faith it will beat any team on the day.

Of course I want to see a flag, but I won't be too fussed if this year is a learning year so that the style we play becomes the trend setter next year.

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3 minutes ago, Uncle Fester said:

Growing into the job. Has stopped his 'gotcha!' tactical moves that were found out and beaten by better, more experienced coaches.

I do like his contant mantra about how we need to play our brand. For too long I've seen us try and re-invent our style based on who won last year, whereas he just keeps saying we will play our style, and if we do it properly then he has faith it will beat any team on the day.

Of course I want to see a flag, but I won't be too fussed if this year is a learning year so that the style we play becomes the trend setter next year.

you can only play 'our' way consistently if you have the cattle...and we have the cattle and some...

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14 minutes ago, deehughman said:

I agree that he is:

  • Yes his match day coaching needs improvement. But honestly we were unlucky to lose to Geelong and it was the players fault not the coach. He did not miss the easy goals against Sydney. 
  • Look at some of the coaching moves that have worked. Tommy Mac, Melksham, Harmes and now just a recent one ANB to defensive forward run with not just run around alot.
  • He kept the confidence in the playing group when many thought we would drop our bundle.

Some of the selection moves were rubbish. But the last few weeks have been spot on. 

He is a learning coach. Look at Clarksons first three years. anyone remember the keepings off games when they would lose but have 100 more touches. 

Agree on all points, but particularly the last. Has clearly developed his coaching this year and looked to improve his own skills. That is a big tick for mine. 

The other big tick is how  positive he has remained, even after bad games. Perspective is the word he used in the excellent OTC interview on the dees website. 

Also loves his players and as Prodee noted whilst he was still an assistant the players love him. probably easier to be loved when an assistant so impressive that it is still obviously the case as senior coach, particularly because no doubt he had some difficult periods this year.

Edited by binman

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5 minutes ago, Danelska said:

you can only play 'our' way consistently if you have the cattle...and we have the cattle and some...

We did it when we had the cattle, way back when. We've done it for 20 odd years. I like the 'build it and they shall come' message.

Early days, but I'm liking his work right now. 

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1 hour ago, deehughman said:

I agree that he is:

  • Yes his match day coaching needs improvement. But honestly we were unlucky to lose to Geelong and it was the players fault not the coach. He did not miss the easy goals against Sydney. 
  • Look at some of the coaching moves that have worked. Tommy Mac, Melksham, Harmes and now just a recent one ANB to defensive forward run with not just run around alot.
  • He kept the confidence in the playing group when many thought we would drop our bundle.

Some of the selection moves were rubbish. But the last few weeks have been spot on. 

He is a learning coach. Look at Clarksons first three years. anyone remember the keepings off games when they would lose but have 100 more touches. 

Good post.  

The bolded part is important - when many of our players get interviewed there always seems to be a reference to how thankful they are for the confidence Goodwin has built in them, or how he stuck with them and gave them an opportunity and so forth.  I know as supporters we are quick to want players cut/dropped/banished or however we want to put it, but that's why we're supporters.  The coach knows best and has the patience and knowledge to make the right decisions, and Goodwin has made many more right ones than wrong ones.

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1 hour ago, SFebes said:

Apart from last two weeks the bombing long into 50, Johnno Brown highlighted that Hogan was part of the problem here. Easy goals out the back, one way running with lack of defensive pressure when teams get out the back, kamikatze game style (no tempo), inability to stop teams getting a run on and can be easy to score against, reluctant to make changes within quarters but can at breaks. That's just to name a few. To his credit, with a few injuries, he's done very well in recent weeks.

He has addressed all of the things you mention and things seem to have clicked in the last 2 weeks.  I would also add our structure around the non-centre stoppages which he seems to have addressed as well as it is much improved.  The only thing that will beat us in the finals is if we fall into some of the earlier bad habits.  Imo Goodwin has built the perfect game style and it is now just a matter of  whether the players can execute it on the biggest stage. 

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I think he is doing a good job for a second year coach and don't subscribe to the idea that because he had two years under Roos he should be further advanced. He came in with a different game plan and has stuck to his guns, which is starting to pay dividends in some strong performances.

I agree his match day coaching would be the one weakness at the moment, but this will likely improve with more experience. Alistair Clarkson didn't just all of sudden become a coaching genius, his first two season with Hawthorn they struggled, then in the 3rd they got back in the finals and in the 4th they won it. Goodwin has got us to finals in his second year.

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4 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Good post.  

The bolded part is important - when many of our players get interviewed there always seems to be a reference to how thankful they are for the confidence Goodwin has built in them, or how he stuck with them and gave them an opportunity and so forth.  I know as supporters we are quick to want players cut/dropped/banished or however we want to put it, but that's why we're supporters.  The coach knows best and has the patience and knowledge to make the right decisions, and Goodwin has made many more right ones than wrong ones.

Huge point. The infamous Harmes interview on the website after Sydney pointed this out. It sounds like he is a great man manager.  

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On 8/30/2018 at 6:05 AM, Sir Why You Little said:

Free Speech was an Australian birth right when i was growing up, now it is under serious threat. 

 

The bolded bits are untrue.

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On 8/30/2018 at 2:05 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

Why do we have to close threads people don’t like?

Free Speech was an Australian birth right when i was growing up, now it is under serious threat. 

If you don’t like it....

This is a privately owned forum. Your free speech rights don’t exist here, you post at the pleasure of Andy and co. (and whatever privately owned cloud service that hosts this forum).

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So, not that Goodwin will be under pressure if we lose this first final by any margin...(his contract will be extended) I feel that we can match any team (the ol Ross Lyon, any team, any time, any where mantra)... but jeez I'll be gutted if we lose to Geelong, not because they're 'Geelong' but because our personnel 'should' beat them... 

Is bowing out straight away, a pass mark for the FD?

Or, have expectations changed from us as supporters?

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Finals is a pass mark. Just a pass mark.

Going further into September would be a successful season. Winning a flag would be beyond realistic expectations at this point. With our current list, next season onwards we should be expecting to not only make finals, but win finals as a pass mark. Then we push for a flag as the only acceptable outcome.

It's great to finally have expectations of some semblance of success. I still remember years ago where "being competitive" was the benchmark we were striving for. It was a disgrace that we ever sunk that low.

 

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12 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Finals is a pass mark. Just a pass mark.

 

Realistically it was the pass mark for 2017... one finals win is the pass mark for this year.

Will be very interested to observe Goodwin's coaching tactics under finals pressure.

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