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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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21 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Man, this thread goes quite after a win, particularly a win landing us in the finals! Some folks only thrive in negativity.

Its easier to base your opinion on the most recent result.

Some of what the coaching group have done has been outstanding.   Our work to get the ball from the contest out has been excellent.   Our inside 50 numbers are through the roof.  The games we lose we are wasteful with our forward entries.  Good sides rebound from defence far too easily at times and we cannot defend clusters of scoring.  Selection has been a serious issue at times as we try to work out exactly what we have to work with and where it fits.

All in all its a pass mark to this stage and the footy department like the playing list is showing solid incremental and sustainable improvement.

The whole club is moving in the right direction.  The players, the list, the coaches, selection, the plan is all at tweaking stage as we probably all recognise.

Living in hope that last weeks win can give us the confidence to close out those games against better opponents.  Maybe that's the only tweak we really need.

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On 8/21/2018 at 8:18 PM, rpfc said:

The frontrunning mids is where we live or die. They are so aggressive that it can be overwhelming against a team that isn't up for it but two precise handballs and we are toast.

 

Precisely. Amazing how few people, including so called professionals seem to get this. 

So many  wrongly suggest it is our defensive unit that is our key weakness when in fact the key issue is we employ a super high press that is incredibly effective in terms of scoring power (hence being the number 1 scoring side in the AFL - when was the last time that was the case?) but leaves us exposed to the fast break if we don't trap it inside 50 or collectively gut run to cover the tic tac passing up the ground by the opposition.

On Sunday Jeffy got the heave ho because he was failing to provide forward pressure. we brought in two players that did provide that pressure. Our press enabled us to kick a winning score against the side with arguably the best defence (and funnily enough no one criticised their defence). And our defensive gut running by mids did a brilliant job in getting across to opposition players to hold them up. Yet they still got goals on the counter - as all teams will with how we play. Our gamble is we get more.

Given our aggressive high press, desire to play on and use of the corridor (which all expose us to turnover goals) our defensive unit has actually held up super well this season. We are only 9th for points against, hence a percentage bettered only by the Tigers and they have won four more games. Interestingly the pies, who have won one more game than us, have conceded almost the same number of points. Interesting because they employ a similar, attacking game plan to us.  

Edited by binman

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Etihad-like width of Optus helped us defend - we're still vulnerable on the MCG.

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13 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Etihad-like width of Optus helped us defend - we're still vulnerable on the MCG.

Agree. Just so much harder at the G to get across to players and hold them up and therefore easier for the opposition to transition the ball quickly.

It means we need fully committed players willing to gut run ad spread, manic forward pressure and perhaps most of all take advantage of our invariably high number of inside 50's (good kicks inside 50, accurate kicking for goal).

On that last point i'm sure we would have won the game against the Swans if had kicked accurately in the first half.

Edited by binman
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11 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Etihad-like width of Optus helped us defend - we're still vulnerable on the MCG.

Agree, we've put in way too many poor performances at the MCG. Without going into tactics, the G really does bring out the worst in us.

If we lose on Sunday, it's hard to fathom us winning a final at the G (in the small chance we beat GWS at Spotless and play Hawks or Tigers week 2)

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44 minutes ago, binman said:

Precisely. Amazing how few people, including so called professionals seem to get this. 

So many  wrongly suggest it is our defensive unit that is our key weakness when in fact the key issue is we employ a super high press that is incredibly effective in terms of scoring power (hence being the number 1 scoring side in the AFL - when was the last time that was the case?) but leaves us exposed to the fast break if we don't trap it inside 50 or collectively gut run to cover the tic tac passing up the ground by the opposition.

On Sunday Jeffy got the heave ho because he was failing to provide forward pressure. we brought in two players that did provide that pressure. Our press enabled us to kick a winning score against the side with arguably the best defence (and funnily enough no one criticised their defence). And our defensive gut running by mids did a brilliant job in getting across to opposition players to hold them up. Yet they still got goals on the counter - as all teams will with how we play. Our gamble is we get more.

Given our aggressive high press, desire to play on and use of the corridor (which all expose us to turnover goals) our defensive unit has actually held up super well this season. We are only 9th for points against, hence a percentage bettered only by the Tigers and they have won four more games. Interestingly the pies, who have won one more game than us, have conceded almost the same number of points. Interesting because they employ a similar, attacking game plan to us.  

Every post you make you keep ignoring the fact we are amongst the worst at defending one on one. The stat has nothing to do with midfield it has to do with players being able to beat their man. 

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18 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Every post you make you keep ignoring the fact we are amongst the worst at defending one on one. The stat has nothing to do with midfield it has to do with players being able to beat their man. 

Of the teams in the 8, we are 8th for points against (by 10 goals to the pies in 7th place) and 35 goals to the tigers in 1st place.

We are 1st for points for, by 25 goals to the tiges in 2nd place and an astonishing 75 goals ahead of Sydney in 8th place. Admittedly, smashing cellar dwellers (ha ha Adelaide, successful club my arse) has helped this stat.

Maybe the strategy is that we’re just going to kick a higher score than them, at all costs.

 

Edited by small but forward

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22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Every post you make you keep ignoring the fact we are amongst the worst at defending one on one. The stat has nothing to do with midfield it has to do with players being able to beat their man. 

Are you serious?

Why do you think Hogan gets beaten so often one on one, despite being a brilliant contested mark? It is largely because so often, as you yourself have been pointed out many times, the kicks inside kicks inside 50 are poor(either because of pressure on the ball carrier or simply poor kicks).

Conversely when Hogan is able to mark one one one (or TMac for that matter), like he did against the Suns, it is usually because the ball is actually kicked to his advantage.

For the millionth time jnr if an opposition mid is allowed to run unimpeded toward our forward line and kick inside 50 under little or no pressure then the most likely scenario is it will be delivered to their forward's advantage and our defender's disadvantage, making it much more difficult for our players to win one on one contests.

There are hundreds of examples of this scenario from our season i could use to illustrate the point. One that sticks out is tuhoy out marking jetta at the end of the cats game. Was that Jett's fault? No. It was because there was no pressure on menzel who kicked to his team mates' advantage. 

An opposite example was that despite giving Vardy 5kgs and 5 cms Omac was barely beaten by him all day one on one, and this was in large part due to the terrific pressure we were applying to the WC player delivering the ball inside 50.

Do you honestly not understand this?

There are none so blind that refuse to see.  

Edited by binman
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23 minutes ago, small but forward said:

Of the teams in the 8, we are 8th for points against (by 10 goals to the pies in 7th place) and 35 goals to the tigers in 1st place.

We are 1st for points for, by 25 goals to the tiges in 2nd place and an astonishing 75 goals ahead of Sydney in 8th place. Admittedly, smashing cellar dwellers (ha ha Adelaide, successful club my arse) has helped this stat.

Maybe the strategy is that we’re just going to kick a higher score than them, at all costs.

 

Indeed.

As i noted earlier we are 9th for most points against. We are 7th on the ladder. Hardly a defensive crisis.

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2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Every post you make you keep ignoring the fact we are amongst the worst at defending one on one. The stat has nothing to do with midfield it has to do with players being able to beat their man. 

Champion Data does collect these defending one on one stats - do you have access to them and can share?

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2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Every post you make you keep ignoring the fact we are amongst the worst at defending one on one. The stat has nothing to do with midfield it has to do with players being able to beat their man. 

If you post about it often enough it  becomes true right....?

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The G is only 10 metres wider. It's only about 800 square metres of real estate to cover but seems like the size of Western Australia when the other team spreads.

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On 8/24/2018 at 11:54 AM, binman said:

Are you serious?

Why do you think Hogan gets beaten so often one on one, despite being a brilliant contested mark? It is largely because so often, as you yourself have been pointed out many times, the kicks inside kicks inside 50 are poor(either because of pressure on the ball carrier or simply poor kicks).

Conversely when Hogan is able to mark one one one (or TMac for that matter), like he did against the Suns, it is usually because the ball is actually kicked to his advantage.

For the millionth time jnr if an opposition mid is allowed to run unimpeded toward our forward line and kick inside 50 under little or no pressure then the most likely scenario is it will be delivered to their forward's advantage and our defender's disadvantage, making it much more difficult for our players to win one on one contests.

There are hundreds of examples of this scenario from our season i could use to illustrate the point. One that sticks out is tuhoy out marking jetta at the end of the cats game. Was that Jett's fault? No. It was because there was no pressure on menzel who kicked to his team mates' advantage. 

An opposite example was that despite giving Vardy 5kgs and 5 cms Omac was barely beaten by him all day one on one, and this was in large part due to the terrific pressure we were applying to the WC player delivering the ball inside 50.

Do you honestly not understand this?

There are none so blind that refuse to see.  0

A one one stat is defined as "Being isolated in a one-on-one contest where both players have an equal opportunity to win the ball." If our defenders can't win one on ones then they are not very good defenders. We rank 14th.

Its not defined as 'a mid kicking it to the advantage of one his forwards' - that wouldn't be counted as a one on one stat.

Its not that hard if you can read. Maybe have to climb off your high horse first.....

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Is It time yet ? to sack this useless Coach.

 

Obviously has lost the players...   has discipline issues...   and is of a lesser breed, from over there.

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On 8/24/2018 at 11:33 AM, jnrmac said:

Every post you make you keep ignoring the fact we are amongst the worst at defending one on one. The stat has nothing to do with midfield it has to do with players being able to beat their man. 

 

6 hours ago, jnrmac said:

A one one stat is defined as "Being isolated in a one-on-one contest where both players have an equal opportunity to win the ball." If our defenders can't win one on ones then they are not very good defenders. We rank 14th.

Its not defined as 'a mid kicking it to the advantage of one his forwards' - that wouldn't be counted as a one on one stat...

I don't think your description is how they record it Jnr. If it was truly only 50/50 contests, with contests "kicks to advantage" not included there would not be many of these each game. 

By one on one I'm pretty sure they mean when no other player can influence the contest. Obviously,  if the defender is not able to exert some sort of physical pressure on the contest (ie wrong footed and the ball is marked 10m at on a lead), i don't think that would count. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DV8 said:

Is It time yet ? to sack this useless Coach.

 

Obviously has lost the players...   has discipline issues...   and is of a lesser breed, from over there.

He is still learning, as is the whole team

Settle down

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Has coached superbly the last two weeks. Credit where it is due. I think he absolutely deserves a contract extension and I hope he continues to work and develop as a coach. 

Big challenge in 2 weeks coming up against a coach who I rate highly both tactically and as a massive tossbag. 

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On 8/24/2018 at 10:54 AM, Fifty-5 said:

Etihad-like width of Optus helped us defend - we're still vulnerable on the MCG.

I think we're working it out 'Fifty'...GWS are a team that can really cut you up if you let them & we held them well today.

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3 hours ago, deanox said:

 

I don't think your description is how they record it Jnr. If it was truly only 50/50 contests, with contests "kicks to advantage" not included there would not be many of these each game. 

By one on one I'm pretty sure they mean when no other player can influence the contest. Obviously,  if the defender is not able to exert some sort of physical pressure on the contest (ie wrong footed and the ball is marked 10m at on a lead), i don't think that would count. 

 

 

Of course this is the case. Completely illogical to think otherwise. For a start how would they determine if two players had 'equal opportunity' to mark? What is equal opportunity? Obviously it is not literal as as you quite rightly note deanox there would hardly be any one on marks.

On my comment about people incorrectly suggesting our back six is our main weakness (and speaking of stats) I found this quote from afl.com interesting:

the Demons curbed the GWS machine equally well, their defensive game an underrated improvement in their late-season surge.

'Only five clubs had conceded fewer points than Melbourne – the AFL's highest-scoring team – between rounds 16 and 22, and it then restricted the Giants to a meagre 57 points, their second-lowest score of the season.'

Given we have played crows (in adelaide), cats (in Geelong), WC (in Perth,) swans and giants that is impressive.

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We had 1749 points kicked against us,  putting us 9th in the league. 

If we had conceded just 4.8 points less per game we would have had 1642 kicked against us, we would move up 6 places intous 3rd on that list. 

For context,  we were the highest scoring team with 1749 points.  The second placed team on that list (Richmond) needed to score more than 7 ppg to catch us, and the 6th team on that list would need 15.9 ppg to catch us. 

 

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2 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

He is still learning, as is the whole team

Settle down

Of course he is, as we all are... and the hole club is.   Learning how to win, and hopefully learning how to be a power.

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On 8/24/2018 at 10:54 AM, Fifty-5 said:

Etihad-like width of Optus helped us defend - we're still vulnerable on the MCG.

That’s a load of crap.

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1 hour ago, Jaded said:

Has coached superbly the last two weeks. Credit where it is due. I think he absolutely deserves a contract extension and I hope he continues to work and develop as a coach. 

Big challenge in 2 weeks coming up against a coach who I rate highly both tactically and as a massive tossbag. 

I reckon he has switch in your 2 weeks, from development phase, into winning finals phase 'Jdd'.

 

Experiments put back into filling cabinet,,, for next seasons pre-season.

Edited by DV8

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GWS was our best game under Goodwin. Weight of numbers and the press simply overwhelmed them.

I think we may have clicked and if so, given we've won the most quarters in the league, if we've found that all important consistency, we could go deep.

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