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Is Goodwin the right guy....


Dees2014

Is Goodwin the right guy?  

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7 hours ago, jnrmac said:

That's not what two players have told me when I specifically asked them but carry on...

Maybe ask them again, this article is 2 years old

 

The Demons did not do a regular play-by-play review of the game with their players because it was futile when they had played so far outside the way they know they should play, and outside the way they had been playing.

“I tried to parcel our finals up into three. We had two really great experiences and one poor one. I certainly didn’t dwell too much on the way we played because it was nothing like the way the Melbourne team plays. But you do reflect on the things in our program we keep addressing and learning from,” he said.

“That was a moment and experience our playing group will always have that I think will hold them in good stead moving forward.”

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/grand-final-was-the-real-lesson-for-the-demons-goodwin-20190307-p512hl.html

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On 7/26/2021 at 6:40 PM, titan_uranus said:

There's no way we will, or should, start playing on at all costs. It's not how we've trained or played for the entire season, now is not the time to change something that fundamentally.

We can, though, be a little bolder with our ball movement at times. What we need to work on is knowing when in a game to take it on and play on, and when not to, because we don't always get it right.

The May kick-outs thing is hugely overrated on here. We're not conceding scores from our own kick-ins anywhere near as much as we're conceding them from forward half turnovers, which is our much, much bigger problem.

We get the ball to the top of the square enough, but the issue is, a bit like the playing on issue, knowing when to go there vs when to look shorter - again, I feel like too often we go there when we shouldn't (players like Gawn, Viney and Harmes kick it there without looking).

The real issue is our fwd line. Was going gangbusters first nine games.

Effectively with Luke Jackson we are a fwd down as he plays alongside Max.

Cant have this with our lack if firepower.

Bb is far superior to sw and is starting to show this. We made the wrong call dropping him in the first place.

Since the bye our best fwd in tmac has fallen away but the port game.

So too fritta.

Not sure how to fix this but jackson out is a start.

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29 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

The real issue is our fwd line. Was going gangbusters first nine games.

Effectively with Luke Jackson we are a fwd down as he plays alongside Max.

Cant have this with our lack if firepower.

Bb is far superior to sw and is starting to show this. We made the wrong call dropping him in the first place.

Since the bye our best fwd in tmac has fallen away but the port game.

So too fritta.

Not sure how to fix this but jackson out is a start.

Gee that's a stretch. 

Has had slightly better output? Sure. Far superior? Dunno about that (yet)

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10 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Gee that's a stretch. 

Has had slightly better output? Sure. Far superior? Dunno about that (yet)

He can mark..

 

Plus I dont believe you can take away what he has done for three incredible seasons.

Sam is as yet a very much unproven commidity.

 

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On 7/27/2021 at 10:08 AM, jnrmac said:

The way Jackson's form has tailed off in recent weeks Weid could hardly be any worse... 

But will he be any better?

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1 minute ago, WA Demon Boy said:

Yes

Jacko is still so young and raw 

I think Weed will at least be able to get a few more kicks than Dogga 

Let's hope so but I'm not counting on it.

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20 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

He can mark..

 

Plus I dont believe you can take away what he has done for three incredible seasons.

Sam is as yet a very much unproven commidity.

 

Sam's clunked plenty of good contested marks over the years, but certainly he's struggled in that area this year. I still have faith that Sam will find his way and be part of our equation moving forward. Ben has easily out-marked Sam this year though.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said, I just don't think Ben's output since putting a Melbourne jumper on has been "far superior" to Weid. In my view both have been largely disappointing, with Ben perhaps slightly less disappointing. That said, I wouldn't be dropping Brown for Weid anytime soon. 

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32 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Sam's clunked plenty of good contested marks over the years, but certainly he's struggled in that area this year. I still have faith that Sam will find his way and be part of our equation moving forward. Ben has easily out-marked Sam this year though.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said, I just don't think Ben's output since putting a Melbourne jumper on has been "far superior" to Weid. In my view both have been largely disappointing, with Ben perhaps slightly less disappointing. That said, I wouldn't be dropping Brown for Weid anytime soon. 

IIRC - and I am happy to be corrected - Weid can range up the ground and take marks handily. And is a decent field kick?

Have some sympathy for the idea of resting Jackson for Weid.

I think others have pointed out that Gawn's dominance hasn't led to outsized differentials in clearances, all of which to say Weid rucking ought not necessarily cause downside risk in this area?

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3 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

IIRC - and I am happy to be corrected - Weid can range up the ground and take marks handily. And is a decent field kick?

Have some sympathy for the idea of resting Jackson for Weid.

I think others have pointed out that Gawn's dominance hasn't led to outsized differentials in clearances, all of which to say Weid rucking ought not necessarily cause downside risk in this area?

I'd be more than happy for Weid to have another sniff while Jacko gets a much needed rest 

Goody appears to value cohesion more than making dynamic changes week to week. Guess time will tell come September if that's the right thing or not. 

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On 7/26/2021 at 10:02 PM, monoccular said:

“Make Melbourne great again”. 

Clearly he is not a premiership coach - that is indisputable. None since Norm Smith has been at Melbourne. Until he is, he isn’t.
Hope by the end of September 2021 we can say he is. 

Tactically can you see him winning a premiership? Hope he does but I have my doubts.

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3 minutes ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Tactically can you see him winning a premiership? Hope he does but I have my doubts.

Coming up with something for the day I think he can do well. It’s when adjustments need to happen on the fly I think he really struggles with. 

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1 hour ago, Gorgoroth said:

Coming up with something for the day I think he can do well. It’s when adjustments need to happen on the fly I think he really struggles with. 

It's a good point you bring up. To be honest, I'm not sure many coaches adjust too much. 

To fit my agenda, after half time against Brisbane, things changed. We smashed em. Was that Goodwin lead? Was that merely player led (which is what you'd prefer) or was it an uptick in pressure? 

All coaches hope their 'plan a' (they've only ever got a plan a) outlast the other plan. That's called backing your system. 

But what is useful for me at least is to be able to compare how different coaches 'adjust on the fly' and what outcomes they get. 

What's your sense on all the other games you watch @Gorgoroth and how coaches adjust on the fly? Do they do it? Does it pay off? Are there obvious examples?

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

It's a good point you bring up. To be honest, I'm not sure many coaches adjust too much. 

To fit my agenda, after half time against Brisbane, things changed. We smashed em. Was that Goodwin lead? Was that merely player led (which is what you'd prefer) or was it an uptick in pressure? 

All coaches hope their 'plan a' (they've only ever got a plan a) outlast the other plan. That's called backing your system. 

But what is useful for me at least is to be able to compare how different coaches 'adjust on the fly' and what outcomes they get. 

What's your sense on all the other games you watch @Gorgoroth and how coaches adjust on the fly? Do they do it? Does it pay off? Are there obvious examples?

 

 

The Brisbane game seemed mostly system that worked. Cleaner ball etc.

That was a massive Kudos to Goodwin. The pies game, he backed the system that had not worked and did not work. 
 

We never seem to change the centre bounce set up, the personnel in there, the  areas we hit the ball. Or revert to manning up the contest when we are being beaten around the stoppage and not winning it in the back half like vs Hawks. Who changed the way they set up in f50 and got the game on their terms. 
Why do we never kick to the right when every doggies player was to the left. Trust the one or two on the right to beat their opponents instead of kicking to Gawn, watching them negate or win it more than we did. 

Why don’t we try Salem in the centre or a wing when he is being negates at half back? There are things to try, we haven’t often. 
Our last few weeks have been poor yet we are staying the course. It will be proven a good or poor choice.

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25 minutes ago, Skuit said:

For those in team aye or nay, I'm curious if Goodwin is any more or any less the right guy after today's game? 

If I am in the nay camp - it's all Yze and Williams 

If I am in the aye camp - it's all down to the players ?

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Goodwin has given the players a structure and style to allow them to compete with anyone. The players failed the club in Perth in 2018 in what was a very open year and failed to execute a formula that we could see was working.

They've gone away from the fundamentals a number of times this year (although our willingess to compete has probably been at a 25 year high overall)...so it's probably fair to ask whether the buck stops with the coach when the players drop their bundle like that?

My personal view is that this club has for so long been so far off having a culture of 'competing at all costs' that it's probably still a work in progress. Still requires a whole club shift towards expecting a high level of competitiveness every single week.

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The reality is we are very competitive. We sit in 3rd, and have performed above literally every experts expectations. We have been within a couple of goals of every team, in every game. The coach has to share in some of the glory of that.

To put it another way, you can’t argue Clarkson isn’t a good coach and applaud the Hawthorn team of 2008-15. They are linked. Simon has a right to expect that he will be rewarded for his work in 2021. That’s just rational, but equally rational is that he’s got a contract through 2022 so we don’t need to make any decisions yet. I think we are in great position as a club.

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1 hour ago, Skuit said:

For those in team aye or nay, I'm curious if Goodwin is any more or any less the right guy after today's game? 

I think today was some good coaching tactic wise pre game which I think is a strength of Goodwins. We used the Bradshaw wing instead of always going to Langdons wing. He moved Trac forward at times and early on had Viney at half forward.

It was good to see the more open forward line early on. 
A win was a pass, but a pass we should always achieve, a belting is always a much bigger tick.

My biggest concern is still being tactically on top of the other coach/team when the games are tight or when thrown curveballs. Like vs Hawks. 

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Out: Goodloss

In: Buckley

early today Goodloss's poor coaching shone with our poor executions

our bottom 4 players: Hunt, ANB, Harmes and IMO Viney when Viney gets tackled all the time, don't have skills after 5 years with Goodloss to make us a flag favourite.

think we will go out of finals without a yelp.

understand we came good but against WCE next week we can't have yet another slow start - it's a coaching fault that we are slow out of the blocks (watch the swimmers and runners their coaches spend hours on the start).

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