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Is Goodwin the right guy....


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Is Goodwin the right guy?  

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On 7/9/2021 at 9:16 AM, Dwight Schrute said:

Goodwin hasn't been outcoached at any stage in 2021 in my opinion, our losses have been to do with us being flat, it's not a reflection of our game plan, or ability to compete against the best. 

we're still the best team in it, the Lions are the only team good enough to stop us. 

Yes he has! GWS started defensively and didn't change until last quarter very poor performance in my opinion

Also Adelaide game could make any moves to defend the corridor and stop being smashed in clearances

Ohh and not bringing in BB last week

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1 hour ago, rpfc said:

I have zero issues with the high expectations - I said before the season that we should be pushing for top 4 with our stars and their age bracket and health.

Really? Most teams with seven of their 23 aged 21 and under with less than 50 games experience aren’t pushing for top four let alone ensconced in it

I thought we’d be there or thereabouts in terms of making the 8; we’ve achieved at a higher level than I thought we would thus  far 

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2 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

Really? Most teams with seven of their 23 aged 21 and under with less than 50 games experience aren’t pushing for top four let alone ensconced in it

I thought we’d be there or thereabouts in terms of making the 8; we’ve achieved at a higher level than I thought we would thus  far 

I agree in terms of our list probably not being a reflection of where we're at, i think our system an coaching has been immense 

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Simon Goodwin has my vote, he needed to get the right team around him and the MFC have provided that in spades. I would like to see them get Ben Mathews back to the club great mid field clearance coach, we are missing him.

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44 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

Really? Most teams with seven of their 23 aged 21 and under with less than 50 games experience aren’t pushing for top four let alone ensconced in it

I thought we’d be there or thereabouts in terms of making the 8; we’ve achieved at a higher level than I thought we would thus  far 

Gawn, Lever, May, Salem, Oliver, Petracca, Langdon, Viney and TMac (reinstated) are our stars and they are driving this 13-3 season. The system and our great youth are contributing but our best players are all 24+ and are doing what we hoped they would do when we invested in them years ago.

They are in their prime and we can’t waste it. 

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On 7/9/2021 at 4:11 PM, jnrmac said:

Who said it was possible or that we had to?

Don't try to project your thoughts on to me thanks.

Going from 1st to 5th in pressure I get but 1st to 14th? That indicates a lot of things to me. Perhaps its too subtle for you though.

 

 

Where was Port's pressure rating against us on Thursday night?  Where was Brisbane's against St.Kilda and The Dogs' against Sydney?

Where was Richmond's when the lost to Hawthorn and St.Kilda last year in successive weeks?  How about in 2019 when they lost to North, Geelong and Adelaide in successive weeks?

It's not possible to sustain top 5 pressure rating all year long in every game.  We had a flat spot for 3 matches which, as suggested by @Engorged Onion and confirmed by Max, coincided with heavier training loads.  And we bounced right back against Port.

But then you don't like "reasons". 

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On 7/9/2021 at 11:54 AM, CYB said:

Is last night's intensity sustainable from now until and into Finals?

I have said that it seems like we always have another gear to goto. But you don't want to be going all out week-in week-out; you have to win some games ugly / 2nd gear etc. Perhaps that is how/why we got rolled by the Pies and GWS? We cannot play with last nights intensity every week.  The Crows game we didn't look flat (IMO) we were just out-coached (and arguably had the game taken away from us by the umps). 

Teams know how to beat us - the blueprint is there. It boils down to execution. Sides that have speed on the ball, good in the contest, can deliver the footy inside 50 quickly before our defensive structure settles. There are only a handful of sides that have the capability and personnel of pulling this off consistently. Nobody has seem to come close when we are 'on' which is promising. 

Goodwin needs to work out a plan B, if our plan A starts to fail - and it is not just more defensive pressure or winning the ball in the contest. 

Nah, that's nonsense. As Leppitsch said on the telecast the other night, it's one of the great myths that anyone has worked out Melbourne. And he'd know. He is a three time premiership defensive coach and three time premiership defender. 

If we'd been worked out, teams could kick a large score against us. They haven't been able to. The three losses have come when our midfield and forwards haven't worked hard enough to bring the heat and work rate.

If they bring the heat and work rate, there's no way anyone can get around our defence and we can counter to score enough ourselves.

We've beaten the entire top 8 (except a wobbly West Coast, which we're yet to play) and haven't been exposed. If we bring the work rate and intensity no team in the competition will beat us.

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35 minutes ago, A F said:

Nah, that's nonsense. As Leppitsch said on the telecast the other night, it's one of the great myths that anyone has worked out Melbourne. And he'd know. He is a three time premiership defensive coach and three time premiership defender. 

If we'd been worked out, teams could kick a large score against us. They haven't been able to. The three losses have come when our midfield and forwards haven't worked hard enough to bring the heat and work rate.

If they bring the heat and work rate, there's no way anyone can get around our defence and we can counter to score enough ourselves.

We've beaten the entire top 8 (except a wobbly West Coast, which we're yet to play) and haven't been exposed. If we bring the work rate and intensity no team in the competition will beat us.

You make a number of very good points AF but we can still be beaten if we don't bring our best and the better teams do bring their best

But going into games I always expect us to bring our best so am therefore more concerned about the quality of the opposition and whether they bring their best

I still see us as a contender only but that puts us more than half way there especially if all our finals are at the MCG

I reckon a few of the other contenders will back themselves to play better against us 2nd time around.  But they may not be good enough to do so if we bring our best. 

Oddly enough, as you've pointed out, the times when we haven't brought our best has been against the lesser lights.  In games that haven't hurt us in terms of ladder position but even so, those losses have hopefully taught valuable lessons.  Learn more from.a loss (?)

And any given key forward can have a day out in a final so there's that as well.  Let's hope it's one of our forwards

Average points against us stands at 65 points ... so if we can score 90* points or more,  we should 'nearly' always win

One of the biggest factors of our game style is an aspect that you highlighted ... forward line pressure

 

*Our average score this season stands at 85 points

Edited by Macca
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1 hour ago, Macca said:

You make a number of very good points AF but we can still be beaten if we don't bring our best and the better teams do bring their best

But going into games I always expect us to bring our best so am therefore more concerned about the quality of the opposition and whether they bring their best

I still see us as a contender only but that puts us more than half way there especially if all our finals are at the MCG

I reckon a few of the other contenders will back themselves to play better against us 2nd time around.  But they may not be good enough to do so if we bring our best. 

Oddly enough, as you've pointed out, the times when we haven't brought our best has been against the lesser lights.  In games that haven't hurt us in terms of ladder position but even so, those losses have hopefully taught valuable lessons.  Learn more from.a loss (?)

And any given key forward can have a day out in a final so there's that as well.  Let's hope it's one of our forwards

Average points against us stands at 65 points ... so if we can score 90* points or more,  we should 'nearly' always win

One of the biggest factors of our game style is an aspect that you highlighted ... forward line pressure

 

*Our average score this season stands at 85 points

I agree with much of your post, however i disagree that teams will feel confident against us. the way we beat the Dogs and Power in particular would terrify them. we totally stopped their game plans. 

they may have a better idea what's coming but no guarantee they'll have the capacity to stop us, particularly the dogs who i don't rate as highly as others. Brisbanes injuries present big challenges. and the Cats age in terms of their list is going to be a huge headache for them as the season drags on, is why Chris Scott is moaning about shorter quarters. those soft tissue injuries will only get worse as the season rolls on. 

I think we're the best team in it, especially when you consider we haven't really been beaten, as in, when we've played at our best, no team has even really gotten close. 

we do have some challenges though. i'd like to see us add 1-2 goals per week to our scores without losing the defense, i think that's an achievable aim that hopefully improved efficency and Ben Brown will help us achieve. and I personally would also like to see more refined roles for players like Harmes and Viney. 

I'd personally like to see Harmes tag every game for the rest of the year. and Viney will improve as he builds into it, but it remains to be seen if he improves the midfield overall significantly 

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1 hour ago, Macca said:

You make a number of very good points AF but we can still be beaten if we don't bring our best and the better teams do bring their best

But going into games I always expect us to bring our best so am therefore more concerned about the quality of the opposition and whether they bring their best

I still see us as a contender only but that puts us more than half way there especially if all our finals are at the MCG

I reckon a few of the other contenders will back themselves to play better against us 2nd time around.  But they may not be good enough to do so if we bring our best. 

Oddly enough, as you've pointed out, the times when we haven't brought our best has been against the lesser lights.  In games that haven't hurt us in terms of ladder position but even so, those losses have hopefully taught valuable lessons.  Learn more from.a loss (?)

And any given key forward can have a day out in a final so there's that as well.  Let's hope it's one of our forwards

Average points against us stands at 65 points ... so if we can score 90* points or more,  we should 'nearly' always win

One of the biggest factors of our game style is an aspect that you highlighted ... forward line pressure

 

*Our average score this season stands at 85 points

But that's my point. If we bring our intensity and work rate, the system is impregnable. 

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20 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

I agree with much of your post, however i disagree that teams will feel confident against us. the way we beat the Dogs and Power in particular would terrify them. we totally stopped their game plans. 

they may have a better idea what's coming but no guarantee they'll have the capacity to stop us, particularly the dogs who i don't rate as highly as others. Brisbanes injuries present big challenges. and the Cats age in terms of their list is going to be a huge headache for them as the season drags on, is why Chris Scott is moaning about shorter quarters. those soft tissue injuries will only get worse as the season rolls on. 

I think we're the best team in it, especially when you consider we haven't really been beaten, as in, when we've played at our best, no team has even really gotten close. 

we do have some challenges though. i'd like to see us add 1-2 goals per week to our scores without losing the defense, i think that's an achievable aim that hopefully improved efficency and Ben Brown will help us achieve. and I personally would also like to see more refined roles for players like Harmes and Viney. 

I'd personally like to see Harmes tag every game for the rest of the year. and Viney will improve as he builds into it, but it remains to be seen if he improves the midfield overall significantly 

Spot on mate. The one team on their day that could trouble us, even when we bring the heat is Sydney.

That said, they smashed us in clearances and we still beat them. If we even up the clearances there, it's very likely the game is played almost entirely in our forward half.

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7 minutes ago, A F said:

But that's my point. If we bring our intensity and work rate, the system is impregnable. 

No we're not that good but that doesn't mean we're that far apart with our appraisals

Even the best of the best in the past weren't impregnable

But I like your confidence AF

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50 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

They may have a better idea what's coming but no guarantee they'll have the capacity to stop us

That's what I virtually said in the post that you quoted.  But we can't expect the opposition to not learn from the encounters that we have had with them.  But other teams backing themselves to do better against us doesn't necessarily equal them winning. 

Those other contenders only have to look at our games against Collingwood & GWS where those 2 teams pressured our midfielders thus resulting in our game plan not functioning very well

That's apart from the lessons they will have learned in their actual encounters against us

But again, I like your confidence DS

But we've still got to bring it and off days can happen.  Right now, I reckon we can win the flag but we'll need a number of things going in our favour for that to happen

Our own form, luck with injuries, fitness in a long season, improvement by other teams (1 or 2 teams can get hot) how we finish the season and where we finish with regards to where the finals will be played.  And we need to remain grounded. 

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One of the things I have loved this season is teams copying us against other top teams.  Not much has been said about it, but the Saints copied the handball and run game that we used to cut Brisbane and Richmond up and got the result in both games.

Then Sydney copied the hard tag on Libba with George Hewitt. Even though the dogs won clearances easily, Libba only had 18 possessions, 8 contested, and the dogs clearances (although they won them easily) were a shambles.

If Clarko was any good he would be copying Goody

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8 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

One of the things I have loved this season is teams copying us against other top teams.  Not much has been said about it, but the Saints copied the handball and run game that we used to cut Brisbane and Richmond up and got the result in both games.

Then Sydney copied the hard tag on Libba with George Hewitt. Even though the dogs won clearances easily, Libba only had 18 possessions, 8 contested, and the dogs clearances (although they won them easily) were a shambles.

If Clarko was any good he would be copying Goody

Excellent point, you can add Hibbo to Dusty, Carlton (attempting) to reform their defense, to initiatives that have been copied. Just wait for the draft, I bet teams look to replicate what we have done with the wing positions. 

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On 7/17/2021 at 10:39 PM, Gorgoroth said:

Ring ring… ring ring “hello, Clarkson here”…

If he can't get the team back up - if the season just fizzles out - the answer to the question posed by the thread is probably "no". The team has become as stale and predictable as his press conferences, and he seems unwilling to refresh the team. (Alarm bells have been ringing for while.) Re his press conferences: can he please give the phrase "as a footy club" a rest?

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Credit to my uncle Dingo, who rang me immediately after the Port game and told me it’s all pear shaped and what are we doing with Goodwin at the helm. That I respect. A bloke who can see the game irrespective of the scoreboard. Not just a warrior. I give Goodwin credit for keeping personal relationships, kinda like a Roos clone. Probably why he was chosen to succeed Roos. But currently, we have the best tap ruck in the league, 2 of the top 1en best clearance mids, yet we get smashed at clearances. Yze is our midfield coach so I guess we expect this. Goodwin put him there. It’s illogical placement and the results we have out the center are a reflection of Yze as a mid? He wasn’t, isn’t, has no idea. Similar to where Stafford is. Right guy, Goodwin? Stop wasting everyone’s time and offer Clarkson something decent. 

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1 hour ago, Redlagged said:

If he can't get the team back up - if the season just fizzles out - the answer to the question posed by the thread is probably "no". The team has become as stale and predictable as his press conferences, and he seems unwilling to refresh the team. (Alarm bells have been ringing for while.) Re his press conferences: can he please give the phrase "as a footy club" a rest?

You’re on the money. We just knocked off top spot with 4 games to go. 

sack the bugger! ?

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6 minutes ago, olisik said:

Anyone see post match presser where Goodwin said he “wasn’t worried one bit” and that he didn’t believe we had major issues.

 

jesus

Trying to control the media narrative. Well played Goody

it would be a very different story internally

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3 minutes ago, olisik said:

Anyone see post match presser where Goodwin said he “wasn’t worried one bit” and that he didn’t believe we had major issues.

 

jesus

"I'm not worried one bit. Our belief is still really strong in the way we play. They kicked six goals from their forward-50 stoppages, and normally in a game it's one-to-two, so that's a big differential and it's an anomaly.

This has echoes of that Prelim against the Eagles. I hope they watch the tape....

MFCSS has me predicting a slide to 5-8 and out in straight sets. That's just how this club affects me. Been there since '64. I feel like sending out a call for John Northey. I know that cool heads are needed, but that was a clear belting (umpires not withstanding). I can't stand Goodwin's press conferences. When he does say something, it's "we won't review the tape, that was unlike us" or "I'm not worried one bit"

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