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Is Goodwin the right guy....


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Is Goodwin the right guy?  

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12 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

The reactionists look a little foolish as they have for most of the season.

But they will be back when a form slump returns, they never learn

The facts don’t lie, 2019 under Goodwin was the only season there was no improvement on the previous season 

Seriously? Pathetic post.

Our pressure dropped from 1st in the comp to 14th in the comp from Round 10. Anyone that points that out is a "reactionist"

Yeah right.

Anyone that points out we lost to 2 bottom 4 sides in a week to miss finals last year is a "reactionist"

Anyone that points out we lost to 13th placed Collingwood to miss finals in 2017 is a "reactionist"

I think I know who looks more than a little foolish.

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4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Seriously? Pathetic post.

Our pressure dropped from 1st in the comp to 14th in the comp from Round 10. Anyone that points that out is a "reactionist"

Yeah right.

Anyone that points out we lost to 2 bottom 4 sides in a week to miss finals last year is a "reactionist"

Anyone that points out we lost to 13th placed Collingwood to miss finals in 2017 is a "reactionist"

I think I know who looks more than a little foolish.

Bingo, 

nailed my post

from someone who quoted Goody’s record over 4 seasons without knowing how many games were actually in the home and away season 

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9 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Seriously? Pathetic post.

Our pressure dropped from 1st in the comp to 14th in the comp from Round 10. Anyone that points that out is a "reactionist"

Yeah right.

Anyone that points out we lost to 2 bottom 4 sides in a week to miss finals last year is a "reactionist"

Anyone that points out we lost to 13th placed Collingwood to miss finals in 2017 is a "reactionist"

I think I know who looks more than a little foolish.

To be fair in rounds 10 - 16 we also beat the dogs at Marvel, the Lions away from home and Port at port, as well as a red hot bombers team. 

not too unhappy with the block of form overall. especially considering we've had a high intensity training period as Gawn referenced in his post game interview, it makes sense they'd be a bit flat, and the natural difficulties of being up all the time. 

it is a bit reactionist to panic when there was no real evidence there that we had any reason to panic, we were still beating good sides in that period, and our losses were narrow, and more to do with us than the other teams. 

Sure if the Pies came out and belted us by 50 points.. but it's been narrow margins 

 

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15 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Seriously? Pathetic post.

Our pressure dropped from 1st in the comp to 14th in the comp from Round 10. Anyone that points that out is a "reactionist"

Yeah right.

Anyone that points out we lost to 2 bottom 4 sides in a week to miss finals last year is a "reactionist"

Anyone that points out we lost to 13th placed Collingwood to miss finals in 2017 is a "reactionist"

I think I know who looks more than a little foolish.

Is it possible for you to understand that no team has ever maintained optimum "pressure" for every game across the entire season?

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2 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

 

 

... but the caravan rolls along

It's been a long time since a team went through the whole season undefeated.

Here's the H&A record of the last 9 Premiership winners:

2020 Richmond 12-1-4
2019 Richmond 16-6
2018 West Coast 16-6
2017 Richmond 15-7
2016 Western 15-7
2015 Hawthorn 16-6
2014 Hawthorn 17-5
2013 Hawthorn 19-3
2012 Sydney 16-6

We've lost 3 games by a total of 27 points so far, we probably should have won against GWS but for some poor conversion in the last quarter and I'm taking the moral victory against Adelaide where the umpires admitted they got the deliberate out of bounds wrong.

It's not possible to bring maximum heat for 25 matches, we need to bring it in the crunch games against contenders and we have.  Guess what - we're going to lose again this year - probably more than once - get your heads around it!

Last week was still a shocker

not once have i ever thought we would go through the year undefeated, but last week was a shocker. Last night was superb

 

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Is last night's intensity sustainable from now until and into Finals?

I have said that it seems like we always have another gear to goto. But you don't want to be going all out week-in week-out; you have to win some games ugly / 2nd gear etc. Perhaps that is how/why we got rolled by the Pies and GWS? We cannot play with last nights intensity every week.  The Crows game we didn't look flat (IMO) we were just out-coached (and arguably had the game taken away from us by the umps). 

Teams know how to beat us - the blueprint is there. It boils down to execution. Sides that have speed on the ball, good in the contest, can deliver the footy inside 50 quickly before our defensive structure settles. There are only a handful of sides that have the capability and personnel of pulling this off consistently. Nobody has seem to come close when we are 'on' which is promising. 

Goodwin needs to work out a plan B, if our plan A starts to fail - and it is not just more defensive pressure or winning the ball in the contest. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is my response to everyone on this thread still questioning Goody and wanting Clarkson.

*Take away the Collingwood name..

 

We aren't there yet by any stretch of the imagination, but if we do win the flag under Goody's coaching, surely there must be bannings in the works for these peanuts, who turn up in this thread every time there is a slight bump in the road to disingenuously call for Goody's head under the guise of 'accountability'. They've added nothing constructive to a conversation that might have had merit during our lows of 2019. Now, they're just fueled by trolling, nihilism and cynicism. 

Technically, they may not have broken any rules, but they could never be taken seriously talking about football ever again. If Demonland admins won't act, hopefully they'll have enough shame to crawl into the hole they came from. We all know who I'm talking about. 

And they do need to get a big dog up somewhere.

When I say this, I'm not referring to the older and more jaded campaigners on the board. I can understand why they might not be ready and willing to immediately invest their faith. That said, the 'get on the phone to Clarko' sojourn was rolled gold silliness.

 

Edited by Colin B. Flaubert
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I still would want the club to call Clarko and ask him if he's interested in a footy manager role, which is exactly what I said last week too.

He may be over coaching, you just never know. Phone calls are free. 

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1 minute ago, Dr.D said:

Call me crazy but I'd take one of the all great coaches over Simon Goodwin. 

We’re on top of the ladder. Are we not flogging teams enough for your liking?

Personally I’d take Clarkson 10 years ago to - but he ain’t Madonna, he cannot and hasn’t kept reinventing himself.

Id take the grad student that is Simon, because ‘the eyeball test of the ladder’.

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4 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

Is it possible for you to understand that no team has ever maintained optimum "pressure" for every game across the entire season?

Who said it was possible or that we had to?

Don't try to project your thoughts on to me thanks.

Going from 1st to 5th in pressure I get but 1st to 14th? That indicates a lot of things to me. Perhaps its too subtle for you though.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Call me crazy but I'd take one of the all great coaches over Simon Goodwin. 

This isn't your Supercoach team. You can't just drop, cut and change personnel and expect no blow back.

You don't just entertain firing your coach mid season when his team is on top of the ladder and all based on a hunch. The hunch in question being that a highly successful coach, who has been full time for 16 years and most likely needing a mental freshening up either way, might be interested in walking into a team who would most likely be infuriated that the coach they have forged a bond with has been unceremoniously and unfairly fired (should that go ahead).

It would be an act of self sabotage up there with Richmond retaliating against Collingwood in the '80's by bringing in all those mediocre players on inflated wages, Essendon hiring Hird and him signing off on bringing Dank and Robinson to the club, or us tanking in the late '00's

And even if the inquiries go nowhere, what's going to happen if Goody gets wind of this? I'd say we would end up with no coach full stop, and anyone with any talent would recognize us as an absolute bucket shop organization and steer well clear.

Edited by Colin B. Flaubert
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28 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

This isn't your Supercoach team. You can't just drop, cut and change personnel and expect no blow back.

You don't just entertain firing your coach mid season when his team is on top of the ladder and all based on a hunch. The hunch in question being that a highly successful coach, who has been full time for 16 years and most likely needing a mental freshening up either way, might be interested in walking into a team who would most likely be infuriated that the coach they have forged a bond with has been unceremoniously and unfairly fired (should that go ahead).

It would be an act of self sabotage up there with Richmond retaliating against Collingwood in the '80's by bringing in all those mediocre players on inflated wages, Essendon hiring Hird and him signing off on bringing Dank and Robinson to the club, or us tanking in the late '00's

And even if the inquiries go nowhere, what's going to happen if Goody gets wind of this? I'd say we would end up with no coach full stop, and anyone with any talent would recognize us as an absolute bucket shop organization and steer well clear.

No not midseason. You need to learn not to jump to conclusions. Clarkson is still contracted. He could easily take over from Goodwin next season or even the season after next. I'd trust Clarkson with a top 4 list more than Goodwin with a top 4 list. I mean its Clarko!

 

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Just now, Dr.D said:

No not midseason. You need to learn not to jump to conclusions. Clarkson is still contracted. He could easily take over from Goodwin next season or even the season after next. I'd trust Clarkson with a top 4 list more than Goodwin with a top 4 list. I mean its Clarko!

 

I need to not jump to conclusions? This season is still alive, we are legitimately in the hunt for a flag for the first time in my life, and you have already written us off by suggesting we need a new coach!

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1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

We’re on top of the ladder. Are we not flogging teams enough for your liking?

Personally I’d take Clarkson 10 years ago to - but he ain’t Madonna, he cannot and hasn’t kept reinventing himself.

Id take the grad student that is Simon, because ‘the eyeball test of the ladder’.

How can you be so confident that he cannot reinvent himself? He's one of the best modern day coaches and has won 4 flags. And since the flags, it's been a rebuild. Naturally. 

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1 minute ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I need to not jump to conclusions? This season is still alive, we are legitimately in the hunt for a flag for the first time in my life, and you have already written us off by suggesting we need a new coach!

To be fair I wrote Goodwin off a long time ago. I haven't forgiven him for 2 years of terrible coaching and terrible on field performances. This year only proves how inept he's been the last 2 years. And he had no excuses. He had a great list, as good as it is now. 

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Sacking Goodwin would be a disaster and would negatively impact the teams for years. I can't believe we even need this discussion. He and the team have been on a journey together, the club is solid and culture is strong - all our guns have signed on the play for Goody and his gameplan.  We have dominated every top team we have played this season and a lot of the games were non-contests like last night as we were tactically so sound. I have never said that about a MFC team, ever.

Go Goody - take us to glory!

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2 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

To be fair I wrote Goodwin off a long time ago. I haven't forgiven him for 2 years of terrible coaching and terrible on field performances. This year only proves how inept he's been the last 2 years. And he had no excuses. He had a great list, as good as it is now. 

You clearly aren't an empiricist. People tend to adjust their opinions based on the evidence in front of them.

Most of us here gave Neeld the benefit of the doubt in year one because we realized that there may have been other factors in play. However, 3 weeks into 2013, we'd seen enough evidence to see that things were going south in a hurry. Hence, we readjusted our thoughts.

Looking at Goody's record, we have improved on the previous year's performance every year except one (2019). We now have a fully healthy list, a game plan that mixes both elements of attack and defense, and a list age profile that suggests our premiership window is wide open. Yet, apparently we can't change our mind on that.

I have no idea what will happen this year, but as things stand, we are in decent form heading into a certain September campaign. I'll reserve my judgements on what the next step will be then. What I won't do is carry on like a pillock every time there is a slight bump in the road, using said bump as 'evidence' that Goodwin should be sacked.

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27 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

To be fair I wrote Goodwin off a long time ago. I haven't forgiven him for 2 years of terrible coaching and terrible on field performances. This year only proves how inept he's been the last 2 years. And he had no excuses. He had a great list, as good as it is now. 

You have returned to form. Idiotic post.  Goodwin will be upset you haven't forgiven him. Dr D...see a doctor.

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I think this thread has outlived its usefulness, and should be rested until the season's end, when it might have some relevance.  At a time when Melbourne is in the top 2, it makes us look like a bunch of skittish fools. All it does is invite trolls, big noters and malicious idiots.

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1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

How can you be so confident that he cannot reinvent himself? He's one of the best modern day coaches and has won 4 flags. And since the flags, it's been a rebuild. Naturally. 

I merely draw a bead when looking at the dynastic coaches over the last 20 years.

 

Matthews

Thompson

Clarkson

Hardwick

 

All had generational talent (as we do with Clarry, Gawn, Trac(?)) and once that talent left.... it all petered out in the natural cycle that is a non*cough*compromised system.

 

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7 hours ago, CYB said:

Is last night's intensity sustainable from now until and into Finals?

I have said that it seems like we always have another gear to goto. But you don't want to be going all out week-in week-out; you have to win some games ugly / 2nd gear etc. Perhaps that is how/why we got rolled by the Pies and GWS? We cannot play with last nights intensity every week.  The Crows game we didn't look flat (IMO) we were just out-coached (and arguably had the game taken away from us by the umps). 

Teams know how to beat us - the blueprint is there. It boils down to execution. Sides that have speed on the ball, good in the contest, can deliver the footy inside 50 quickly before our defensive structure settles. There are only a handful of sides that have the capability and personnel of pulling this off consistently. Nobody has seem to come close when we are 'on' which is promising. 

Goodwin needs to work out a plan B, if our plan A starts to fail - and it is not just more defensive pressure or winning the ball in the contest. 

So, what exactly would Plan B be? If Plan A is “play well”, what possible Plan B can there be if the starting point is that we are playing badly?

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BTW, it took Clarkson four years to win a premiership at Hawthorn. Goodwin got us into the finals in his second year and has us top of the ladder in his fifth. To be sure, his third year was disastrous for the club but in his fourth year, we missed the finals by a whisker and that was after the extraordinary Covid year, commencing with us playing and losing a game in Perth, with the season in potentially complete disarray. So Who’s to say Clarkson is that much better?

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I have zero issues with the high expectations - I said before the season that we should be pushing for top 4 with our stars and their age bracket and health. 

Goodwin is obviously a capable coach, and he now has suitable support to succeed. 

I am a realist and if injuries strike - this can be altered but we have to finish in the top 4 if Goodwin wants to get an extension at the end of the year for beyond 2022 AND we have to be competitive in that prelim. If we flame out in a semi or god forbid an elimination final - the acid will remain on Goodwin into 2022 and then we are into a fresh season where we are back to 0-0. 

We are still in the grey here, and I think even those staunch Goodwin supporters should acknowledge that.

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