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Is Goodwin the right guy....


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Is Goodwin the right guy?  

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1 hour ago, binman said:

Spot on jnr. 

Looked tired. Played tired.

As goody also said, the break has come at a good time.

Such a lazy and pathetic excuse. 

We were no less tired than Collingwood. This is the AFL. We were down on effort, application and a skill level all over the field. 

Being tired had nothing to do with it. 

Edited by JimmyGadson
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17 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Such a lazy and pathetic excuse. 

We were no less tired than Collingwood. This is the AFL. We were down on effort, application and a skill level all over the field. 

Being tired had nothing to do with it. 

Sounds like, you'd be 100% daily in your workplace and your life then JimBob.

No fatigue, no external pressures, impacting on performance, effort or decision making. 

I have a visual of you as just a guru on a cloud merely observing his/her experiences as they come and go, come and go, without ever getting caught up in the struggle of existence. 

A guru or a yogi if you will 

😇

and of course if that's not your experience, you'd see yourself as being lazy and pathetic?

edit; if that came across as passive aggressive - apologies.

I for one can see a clear link between 'being tired' as a reality of elite sport over a season that rolls for essentially 10 months of the year and how it impacts on performance.

I get surprised when others cannot, and then use punitive language as you did.

Edited by Engorged Onion
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18 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Such a lazy and pathetic excuse. 

We were no less tired than Collingwood. This is the AFL. We were down on effort, application and a skill level all over the field. 

Being tired had nothing to do with it. 

Imagine thinking so highly of your own opinions that you would say something like this with authority lol  

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Could this be made into something along the lines of a spam containment thread? It seems like any type of whinge about Goody gets new life breathed into it as soon as things taken even the slightest negative turn.

Should we win a premiership under his coaching, I personally look forward to the day when all the jokers who have fertilized this manure dump get to turn up here and eat a sh** sandwich of their own.

Edited by Colin B. Flaubert
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1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Sounds like, you'd be 100% daily in your workplace and your life then JimBob.

No fatigue, no external pressures, impacting on performance, effort or decision making. 

I have a visual of you as just a guru on a cloud merely observing his/her experiences as they come and go, come and go, without ever getting caught up in the struggle of existence. 

A guru or a yogi if you will 

😇

and of course if that's not your experience, you'd see yourself as being lazy and pathetic?

edit; if that came across as passive aggressive - apologies.

I for one can see a clear link between 'being tired' as a reality of elite sport over a season that rolls for essentially 10 months of the year and how it impacts on performance.

I get surprised when others cannot, and then use punitive language as you did.

 

1 hour ago, Smokey said:

Imagine thinking so highly of your own opinions that you would say something like this with authority lol  

 

I don't buy that we had a down game because we were 'more tired' than they were.

I think it's a lazy, insular and an easy way to excuse a loss.

Do supporter really think more than half our side underperformed because they were individually more fatigued than their opponents? Lol.

 

Obviously I accept there are individuals faced with distractions, tragedy, anxiety, fatigue etc etc that will impact performance weekly. But not almost an entire 22 on the same game.

That's ridiculous. 

 

I think it's far more likely that the individuals at Collingwood were at higher arousal levels due to it being Buck's send off game and they followed a blueprint of how to penetrate our defensive zone. 

We were down, we lacked arousal (due to a multitude of factors I imagine, fatigue perhaps one of them for a select few players). We lacked skill execution, we lacked team cohesion and selflessness.

 

Going into the game we were more talented than they were. We had more stars on the field than they did. We had a more solid system than they did. But we lost. We were outworked, outplayed and outcoached. 

 

It was a bad loss and not because we were tired.

 

 

Edited by JimmyGadson
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15 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

I don't buy that we had a down game because we were 'more tired' than they were.

I think it's a lazy, insular and an easy way to excuse a loss.

Do supporter really think more than half our side underperformed because they were individually more fatigued than their opponents? Lol.

 

Obviously I accept there are individuals faced with distractions, tragedy, anxiety, fatigue etc etc that will impact performance weekly. But not almost an entire 22 on the same game.

That's ridiculous. 

 

I think it's far more likely that the individuals at Collingwood were at higher arousal levels due to it being Buck's send off game and they followed a blueprint of how to penetrate our defensive zone. 

We were down, we lacked arousal (due to a multitude of factors I imagine, fatigue perhaps one of them for a select few players). We lacked skill execution, we lacked team cohesion and selflessness.

 

Going into the game we were more talented than they were. We had more stars on the field than they did. We had a more solid system than they did. But we lost. We were outworked, outplayed and outcoached. 

 

It was a bad and not because we were tired.

 

 

The funniest part being that you would have absolutely no idea if tiredness was a factor or not. 

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11 hours ago, Dr.D said:

You say this but how many people on this board were talking about flags, hopes and dreams at the end of 2018 only to come 17th and 9th in the following 2 years?  Everyone needs a bit of Dr in their life to keep them grounded :) 

I for one, don't predict we'll finish top 4 this year. Nor do I think we'll reach a prelim.  It's still a successful season nonetheless because of the improvement from last year. 

DL can be very precious, that's for sure - people digging up old posts to "hold people to account" and whatnot. Too much time spare evidently.

To your last point though - I have some sympathy for that view - what path do you see this taking? ie W/L going forward. That is interesting to think about.

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1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

I don't buy that we had a down game because we were 'more tired' than they were.

I think it's a lazy, insular and an easy way to excuse a loss.

Do supporter really think more than half our side underperformed because they were individually more fatigued than their opponents? Lol.

 

Obviously I accept there are individuals faced with distractions, tragedy, anxiety, fatigue etc etc that will impact performance weekly. But not almost an entire 22 on the same game.

That's ridiculous. 

 

I think it's far more likely that the individuals at Collingwood were at higher arousal levels due to it being Buck's send off game and they followed a blueprint of how to penetrate our defensive zone. 

We were down, we lacked arousal (due to a multitude of factors I imagine, fatigue perhaps one of them for a select few players). We lacked skill execution, we lacked team cohesion and selflessness.

 

Going into the game we were more talented than they were. We had more stars on the field than they did. We had a more solid system than they did. But we lost. We were outworked, outplayed and outcoached. 

 

It was a bad loss and not because we were tired.

 

 

There are quite a few posts of yours to suggest that you are another Goodwin basher.

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On 6/14/2021 at 9:23 PM, olisik said:

Which bottom 4 team have we not lost/struggled against?

North we were down by 20 in the 3rd Q

Hawks we only ran over in the last

Neither 4 quarter comprehensive/convincing wins.

We beat the Hawks by 50 points

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2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Such a lazy and pathetic excuse. 

We were no less tired than Collingwood. This is the AFL. We were down on effort, application and a skill level all over the field. 

Being tired had nothing to do with it. 

Jimmy you are a curious cat. Always seem to be spoiling for a fight.

Not for the first time, i'm confused by one of your posts.

And not for the first time you seem to have misrepresented my comments 

I said we looked tired. Played tired.

And in case i need to spell it out, by tired i mean physically and mentally

You don't agree that we looked tired and played tired?

If so why then would you write: 'we were down on effort, application and a skill level all over the field'. Are they not all evidence of players who looked tired and played tired?

In fact, in the post you quoted that so attracted your ire, I could well have written: 

  • Spot on jnr. Looked tired. Played tired. As evidence of looking tired and playing tired, we were down on effort, application and skill level all over the field.

A few more questions Jimmy:

  • please enlighten me as to where i excused their performance (comprehension note: there is a difference between a reason and an excuse)? 
  • you don't think accusing me of making a lazy and pathetic excuse might be a little hyperbolic, not to mention unnecessarily confrontational? 
  • how on earth would you know if the dees players were more or less tired than the pies players? I mean, i know you are well connected in AFL circles but i think I'm safe to assume you don't have access to the MFC and CFC training load data, their GPS numbers or their medical reports
  • how on earth would you know if being tired had nothing to do with the performance of the dees players?

Tiredness had nothing to do with their performance? Please.

Logic would suggest that in fact it is extremely likely physical and mental tiredness was a factor in their performance.

A young team, at the half way mark of a grueling season, coming off back to back huge games against premiership contenders, who have been up for 3 months and who play an incredibly taxing game style.

Of course being tired is a likely to be a factor in their very flat performance.

Does it it excuse their performance. No. Might it help explain it? Yes.

As goody said in his presser goody said, the break has come at a good time.

Because, you know, the team is tired. 

Edited by binman
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2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

I don't buy that we had a down game because we were 'more tired' than they were.

I think it's a lazy, insular and an easy way to excuse a loss.

Do supporter really think more than half our side underperformed because they were individually more fatigued than their opponents? Lol.

 

Obviously I accept there are individuals faced with distractions, tragedy, anxiety, fatigue etc etc that will impact performance weekly. But not almost an entire 22 on the same game.

That's ridiculous. 

 

I think it's far more likely that the individuals at Collingwood were at higher arousal levels due to it being Buck's send off game and they followed a blueprint of how to penetrate our defensive zone. 

We were down, we lacked arousal (due to a multitude of factors I imagine, fatigue perhaps one of them for a select few players). We lacked skill execution, we lacked team cohesion and selflessness.

 

Going into the game we were more talented than they were. We had more stars on the field than they did. We had a more solid system than they did. But we lost. We were outworked, outplayed and outcoached. 

 

It was a bad loss and not because we were tired.

 

 

Collingwood’s blue print doesn’t work if we come out switched on with how we played the previous 2 weeks.

You don’t consider after getting ourselves up for 2 big games against two other contenders there was potential for a let down

Taking into account the likelihood of the Pies lifting for Bucks and us being slightly off and not setting self doubts in to them by putting them away early, would not surprise me if we were somewhat tired or not fully switched on mentally happens to all teams.

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52 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

There are quite a few posts of yours to suggest that you are another Goodwin basher.

What that got to do with it?

His points are valid. Your response isn't. 

Argue his points if you must

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2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

I don't buy that we had a down game because we were 'more tired' than they were.

I think it's a lazy, insular and an easy way to excuse a loss.

Do supporter really think more than half our side underperformed because they were individually more fatigued than their opponents? Lol.

 

Obviously I accept there are individuals faced with distractions, tragedy, anxiety, fatigue etc etc that will impact performance weekly. But not almost an entire 22 on the same game.

That's ridiculous. 

 

I think it's far more likely that the individuals at Collingwood were at higher arousal levels due to it being Buck's send off game and they followed a blueprint of how to penetrate our defensive zone. 

We were down, we lacked arousal (due to a multitude of factors I imagine, fatigue perhaps one of them for a select few players). We lacked skill execution, we lacked team cohesion and selflessness.

 

Going into the game we were more talented than they were. We had more stars on the field than they did. We had a more solid system than they did. But we lost. We were outworked, outplayed and outcoached. 

 

It was a bad loss and not because we were tired.

 

 

Ever think that maybe people are just expressing what they perceive as contributing factors to our loss, and not excuses?

Do you reckon ANYONE here is thinking to themselves "we lost to Collingwood, but it's ok because we were tired"? 

All you're offering here is strawman arguments and opinions dressed as facts. 

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23 hours ago, Demon17 said:

Plus the Pies unpicked our greatest strength - May/Lever duo.

Hard low kicks into the forward line nullified their strengths.

This isn't an original idea, esp against McGovern at the Eagles and could be our achilles heel if executed by oppo teams. To date most have been unable to do it.

and how do you stop low hard kicks to leading forwards??? Pressure!!! Pressure the ball carrier and force balloon balls forward which allows defenders to role off and intercept mark.

Without PRESSURE defenders are useless.

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20 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

What that got to do with it?

His points are valid. Your response isn't. 

Argue his points if you must

I don't think his points are valid, in my opinion he is just having another swipe at Goodwin, I happen to agree with Binman.

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1 hour ago, Grimes Times said:

Without PRESSURE defenders are useless.

Exactly. 

Question: what was the common element of out first half against the Lions and the whole Collingwood game?

Answer: opposition marks inside 50

Why? Because we applied bugger all pressure to the fella kicking the ball inside 50, particularly in the pies game.

Do people really think the pies suddenly found the key to unlock the dees defence - low hard kicks to forwards that defenders can't spoil?  

 

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5 hours ago, binman said:

Exactly. 

Question: what was the common element of out first half against the Lions and the whole Collingwood game?

Answer: opposition marks inside 50

Why? Because we applied bugger all pressure to the fella kicking the ball inside 50, particularly in the pies game.

Do people really think the pies suddenly found the key to unlock the dees defence - low hard kicks to forwards that defenders can't spoil?  

 

The cause of the lack of pressure was different in the two games though.

Against Brisbane we were being beaten through the middle by an elite midfield. We weren't getting much ball and were badly losing the territory game with a paltry amount of inside 50s compared to them.

Against Collingwood we were generating plenty of inside 50s and giving ourselves opportunities to score, but turning it over and then being caught out on the turnover. We were also flatter than we ought to have been.

I'm also still of the view the SCG dimensions exacerbated those problems - the Pies wanted to get on with it as direct as possible and the SCG allowed them to do that with the fewest kicks possible, and therefore in the quickest possible time.

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55 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Anyone who thinks we lost to the Pies because Goodwin was outcoached has absolutely NFI.

Keen to hear how you think we lost to a less talented, less structured, less skilled and a bottom 4 team, if not for lack of motivation, inability to change game-plan or pivot, team selection or ability to make changes on the field when needed.

Why did we see Darcy Cameron taking marks in defence where as we did not see any of our forwards doing the same for example?

Edited by olisik
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Please @Dr. Gonzo save yourself the time and energy and don't bother explaining. You'll only stoop to low level IQ.

Me and many other normal supporters understand exactly where you're coming from with your comment.

Edited by dazzledavey36
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13 hours ago, Superunknown said:

DL can be very precious, that's for sure - people digging up old posts to "hold people to account" and whatnot. Too much time spare evidently.

To your last point though - I have some sympathy for that view - what path do you see this taking? ie W/L going forward. That is interesting to think about.

I have us losing to Essendon, Port, WCE, Geelong and Dogs. So that puts us at 15-8 which I don't think will be enough for top 4.

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16 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

I have us losing to Essendon, Port, WCE, Geelong and Dogs. So that puts us at 15-8 which I don't think will be enough for top 4.

 
You judge this on one poor game and forget the good ones.
That's the spirit.

And FWIW it wouldn't surprise me if we were tired.
Our game plan is intense.
Built on relentless pressure, hard tackling and 2 way running.
We haven't got enough skilled players to slice teams apart and need to resort to hand to hand combat in the trenches.
So far this year the boys have been working their arzes off and getting it done for the most part.

Edited by Fork 'em
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19 hours ago, binman said:

Jimmy you are a curious cat. Always seem to be spoiling for a fight.

Not for the first time, i'm confused by one of your posts.

And not for the first time you seem to have misrepresented my comments 

I said we looked tired. Played tired.

And in case i need to spell it out, by tired i mean physically and mentally

You don't agree that we looked tired and played tired?

If so why then would you write: 'we were down on effort, application and a skill level all over the field'. Are they not all evidence of players who looked tired and played tired?

In fact, in the post you quoted that so attracted your ire, I could well have written: 

  • Spot on jnr. Looked tired. Played tired. As evidence of looking tired and playing tired, we were down on effort, application and skill level all over the field.

A few more questions Jimmy:

  • please enlighten me as to where i excused their performance (comprehension note: there is a difference between a reason and an excuse)? 
  • you don't think accusing me of making a lazy and pathetic excuse might be a little hyperbolic, not to mention unnecessarily confrontational? 
  • how on earth would you know if the dees players were more or less tired than the pies players? I mean, i know you are well connected in AFL circles but i think I'm safe to assume you don't have access to the MFC and CFC training load data, their GPS numbers or their medical reports
  • how on earth would you know if being tired had nothing to do with the performance of the dees players?

Tiredness had nothing to do with their performance? Please.

Logic would suggest that in fact it is extremely likely physical and mental tiredness was a factor in their performance.

A young team, at the half way mark of a grueling season, coming off back to back huge games against premiership contenders, who have been up for 3 months and who play an incredibly taxing game style.

Of course being tired is a likely to be a factor in their very flat performance.

Does it it excuse their performance. No. Might it help explain it? Yes.

As goody said in his presser goody said, the break has come at a good time.

Because, you know, the team is tired. 

Goody, in his presser, said that the break had probably come at a good time "after a result like that". 

You're the one interpreting that answer as the team being tired. 

I'm not going to go through your survey of questions, maybe I should have been more clear in what I was trying to say so I'll try again. 

You said the players were looking and playing tired. 

I agree. But I don't think that it was because we were any more physically or mentally tired than the opposition. One could argue that the week they had would have been far more mentally taxing on their club and players. 

Another argument is that we have a superior head of fitness and therefore a greater level of fitness across our playing list with more effective weekly planned training/recovery throughout the week. We also had a ten day turnaround which is ample recovery time. 

It's more about what your comments infer and I get that soft underbelly of the Melbourne football club feeling when I read it. So perhaps I'm easily triggered. 

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On 6/16/2021 at 3:15 PM, Grimes Times said:

and how do you stop low hard kicks to leading forwards??? Pressure!!! Pressure the ball carrier and force balloon balls forward which allows defenders to role off and intercept mark.

Without PRESSURE defenders are useless.

Spot on.  Its a complete package defensively

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