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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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I'd love to have a dip at him, but stuff me, I couldn't do any better.

He may not last beyond 2020, or he may be our next premiership coach.  Results is all that matters, and if these aren't any good then he'll get the flick, as he should.

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Just now, Wiseblood said:

I'd love to have a dip at him, but stuff me, I couldn't do any better.

He may not last beyond 2020, or he may be our next premiership coach.  Results is all that matters, and if these aren't any good then he'll get the flick, as he should.

Spot on Wise.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, 3183 Dee said:

Also, if you look at the way Roos coached - whether you liked his style or not - he set the culture and the message and then relied on the expertise of great assistant coaches. The culture was built around self-reliance and backing yourself and your team mates. At the moment, ours seems to tick all the boxes of a corporate speak culture, but we have seen, in every game this season, a team that has little idea of how to counteract and overcome adversity on-field and, conversely, apply the killer instinct when they have the opponent on the ropes.

And the empowerment of assistant coaches left the club with Roos.

Edited by Lord Nev
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

I agree. Both those issues were always my concern. It displays a lack of judgement IMO. Peptides saga should have ruled all involved out as candidates for any club, and history has largely proven that should've been the case. The Goodwin appointment had a lot to do with the ego of Paul Roos, and his ambition to have an untried coach carry on his legacy so that he gets maximum credit. Roos dropped the baton at the last change. We need a proven coach and tactician, someone who can teach strategy and have the team playing to a structure. 

Not sure where that idea came from. 

Roos wasn't looking for another coaching career.  Jackson coaxed him out of retirement on the basis that he mentor a successor.  Roos first choice late in 2013 was Dew but sadly that didn't work out.  I recall rumours that Ling may have been interested but he had no coaching experience at all. There is no public record on who else Roos approached but I would be surprised if there weren't others..

Goodwin was introduced to Roos and mfc in the second half of 2014 by his good mate, Todd Viney.  Roos said he didn't know much about him but was impressed with his approach to people management etc.  I recall reading that Goodwin had several meetings with the mfc Board where he was grilled on the Ess drug saga.  They accepted his explanations and was appointed.

Roos did his job.  Not convinced that others in mfc did theirs.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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11 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

I agree. Both those issues were always my concern. It displays a lack of judgement IMO. Peptides saga should have ruled all involved out as candidates for any club, and history has largely proven that should've been the case. The Goodwin appointment had a lot to do with the ego of Paul Roos, and his ambition to have an untried coach carry on his legacy so that he gets maximum credit. Roos dropped the baton at the last change. We need a proven coach and tactician, someone who can teach strategy and have the team playing to a structure. 

It was a succession plan put into place from the moment Roos walked in the door. If they had gone for a coach waiting in the wings who already had been a top level, experienced coach then why get Roos at all? That was the plan, that was sold to Roos, it was the plan that was sold to the members and I would say most members were happy with it. It has nothing to do with Paul's ego and to suggest that is, in my view, disrespectful.

I remain of the opinion that there is one coach out there right now that I would move heaven and earth for, the rest....meh. That one person is Al Clarkson who has runs on the board, and has shown adaptability to situations and trends in the game. Damien Hardwick as well perhaps.

Goodwin may not be the right person for us but he's got another year to run on his contract, and I picture him seeing out most of it.

I'd spew if we got Ross Lyon.

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19 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I agree with most of your post (it's mostly facts not opinion) but just wanted to clarify/question the above points.

What is the "worst player management initiative" you're talking about? The camp? That was before the 2018 season not 2019 from memory. 

Shocking mismanagement? Are you referring to the high number of post season surgeries?

We did trade away our 1st pick this year - but we got Kozzie out of it. Is it worth it? This year is the most compromised draft in history with F/S and Academy picks. Plus there is no under 18 comp to go off although we didn't know that when we traded the pick out.

I forgot about the camp. But mostly talking about player and injury management. Ultimately it ends with him and he signs off. Everything led to a preseason stacked with surgeries. I guess not directly his fault but ultimatel he is the head coach. Mid-season football department restructuring is pretty much unheard of. It doesn't get talked about enough. That would have come from the CEO and board and was ultimately an indictment on the performance of Goodwin and the FD over the corresponding 6-12 months.

Kozzie has been a fantastic get I will give you that. I still think it's important to highlight though that we gave up our first round pick on the assumption we finish highly. If we finish bottom 4 with a healthy list (unlikely but on current form who knows) then I think you could argue it was a poor deal long term. Hard to say but still worth highlighting. 

For the record I do suspect this year's draft will likely see any future draft pick trades pushed back a year (ie. North gets out 2021 pick rather than our 2020 pick).

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2 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

Pickett looks exciting but hasn’t really done much yet except in a few preseason games.

He's just turned 19 and has played 2 games.

So far he's averaging 10.5 disposals, 2 tackles and a goal a game.

Pretty silly comment tbh.

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3 minutes ago, 3Dee said:

We are 2-9 in past 11.

That is seriously unacceptable for the reasonable amount of talent we have on our list.

Goodwin simply needs wins, and it has to start on Sunday against an out of form side.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

He's just turned 19 and has played 2 games.

So far he's averaging 10.5 disposals, 2 tackles and a goal a game.

Pretty silly comment tbh.

Not at all. I’m commenting on the previous post which was singing his praises. It’s a bit early for that in my view. I’m also hopeful that he’ll be a good pick up. Sniping on this forum is more silly!

Edited by President Dee Trump

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5 hours ago, Pates said:

Goodwin may not be the right person for us but he's got another year to run on his contract, and I picture him seeing out most of it.

Try another two years to run on his contract.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2019-melbourne-resign-coach-simon-goodwin-until-end-of-2022/news-story/fc4f328d933faaae53a9dbb4efbe6e2d

This isn't a Hardwick or Buckley scenario whereby they had runs on the board in terms of multiple finals series. We're talking about a coach who has almost 3 years of contract security despite owning a 6-20 record in his past 26 games.

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1 minute ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Try another two years to run on his contract.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2019-melbourne-resign-coach-simon-goodwin-until-end-of-2022/news-story/fc4f328d933faaae53a9dbb4efbe6e2d

This isn't a Hardwick or Buckley scenario whereby they had runs on the board in terms of multiple finals series. We're talking about a coach who has almost 3 years of contract security despite owning a 6-20 record in his past 26 games.

It’s obvious to all commentators in the media where the deficiencies in his game plan lie. It seems unbelievable that he hasn’t rectified them yet with quite a bit of talent on our list now...

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It's a fascinating challenge as the problem with our style of play is staring the whole football world in the face, but whether Goodwin has the solution is the big question.

The good news is if he can figure it out, we can jump up pretty quickly. But if I'm being honest with myself, I think it's looking unlikely.

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6 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

Not at all. I’m commenting on the previous post which was singing his praises. It’s a bit early for that in my view. I’m also hopeful that he’ll be a good pick up. Sniping on this forum is more silly!

"Kozzie has been a fantastic get I will give you that" is hardly "singing his praises".

The point is, it's silly to be saying "hasn't done much" after 2 games, especially given he's played ok in both.

Not sure what part of my post was 'sniping' you.

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10 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

"Kozzie has been a fantastic get I will give you that" is hardly "singing his praises".

The point is, it's silly to be saying "hasn't done much" after 2 games, especially given he's played ok in both.

Not sure what part of my post was 'sniping' you.

A fantastic get is singing his praises. Calling someone’s comment silly is sniping. How many players have we had that so many on here thought were fantastic gets that turned out complete duds? Lots.

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2 minutes ago, My name is legion said:

A fantastic get is singing his praises. Calling someone’s comment silly is sniping. How many players have we had that so many on here thought were fantastic gets that turned out complete duds? Lots.

We're getting a bit precious if calling a silly comment silly is 'sniping' now.

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1 hour ago, 3Dee said:

We are 2-9 in past 11.

This needs mentioning tonight to the President

 

Nice work 3D

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2 hours ago, 3Dee said:

We are 2-9 in past 11.

This this this this and this.

Goodwin is killing this club. It's pathetic that people stand up for his poor record.

 

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Posted (edited)

Sugar coat this.

In our last 26 games we have had 2 wins by more than 1 goal

The worst team in the whole competition

 

Why hasn't Goodwin been sacked already?

Edited by jnrmac
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2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

That is seriously unacceptable for the reasonable amount of talent we have on our list.

Goodwin simply needs wins, and it has to start on Sunday against an out of form side.

The weeks, games and aspirations of supporters wane, shrivel and die. Thanks, Goody.

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8 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

In our last 26 games we have had 2 wins by more than 1 goal

almost worthy of appearing on the Demonland banner

Sure there are excuses but to be so consistently bad is worrying. Even those who are wrong are right every now and then but we can't even do that it seems.

For those who point to Buckley and Hardwick etc those coaches had their teams in the 9-12 spots in their bad years.  Who can think of a surprise win in 2019...

 

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7 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

almost worthy of appearing on the Demonland banner

Sure there are excuses but to be so consistently bad is worrying. Even those who are wrong are right every now and then but we can't even do that it seems.

For those who point to Buckley and Hardwick etc those coaches had their teams in the 9-12 spots in their bad years.  Who can think of a surprise win in 2019...

 

The Buckley and Hardwick comparisons are in some respects broader than simply ladder position.

Certainly if Goodwin had taken over a team like Buckley did and then coached us to six consecutive seasons of worse performance, Demonland would have been baying for blood. It is true, though, that the worst Collingwood season in those six years was a 9.5 win season and the worst percentage was 94%, so certainly they never fell as low as we fell last year.

And as to Hardwick, I think if Goodwin had taken us to three consecutive elimination finals and we'd lost them all (one to a side that didn't finish the home and away season in the top 8), Demonland would have been baying for blood. 

As to surprise wins in 2019 - I'd say either of Hawthorn or Fremantle were surprise wins. Fremantle had won three straight including beating Brisbane in Brisbane and Collingwood at the G.

Point taken, though, as is jnrmac's stat about our lack of wins over a goal.

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2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

We're getting a bit precious if calling a silly comment silly is 'sniping' now.

It is possible to have a mature discussion without calling people’s opinions silly or precious. 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Sugar coat this.

In our last 26 games we have had 2 wins by more than 1 goal

Why hasn't Goodwin been sacked already?

I'll have a dip here @jnrmac at sugar coating, however I'd prefer to call it sense making, using the context of what has gone on.

Finals 2018

Lost to WCE - smashed... so disappointing. But the team had ran out of legs, plenty of evidence throughout 2018 that we had the right mix and the right style, not against the top 4, but had plenty of 19-23 year olds playing.

2019. Gentle reminder, interrupted preseasons and surgeries for many of the list. Now people have views on what was right here, do you nurse people through, or knowing that the season probably would be a write, do you commit to many surgeries and weather what comes your way.

Beat sydney in sydney by 20 odd points (with interrupted pre season and surgeries)

Beat Hawks by 5 points  (with interrupted pre season and surgeries)

Beat Freo by 20 odd points  (with interrupted pre season and surgeries)

Beat GC by 1 point  (with interrupted pre season and surgeries) 

By my calculations also lost  7 games by 4 goals and under and considering  interrupted pre season and surgeries, a deficit of one goal a quarter is passable.

1 blow out by 80 against Geelong

1 smashing by Sydney by 50 points

2 drubbing by 40 points against St Kilda and Richmond

1 loss by 6 goals (1 goal and a quarter each quarter) to Brisbane

All this with  interrupted pre season and surgeries to many of team. Ill keep banging this drum :)

Ok... now 2020

1 loss to WCE with the context of COVID - season being postponed, players getting home. For me that is all relevant

3 months later

A 1 point win against Carlton - disappointing how it played out... but (we had 5 new players in the team that had not played with one another in a competitive match) Figures may be slightly wrong, BUT that is really really relevant.

Then... 2.5 weeks later after a cancelled match,   we lose by a kick that could have gone through... but yes a win by less than a goal.

 

So, there are glaring issues (like most teams) re: forward line, (Weid not coming on) midfield's inability, unwillingness to run on defence

But we win the I50's (like the last 3 years) and I for one can't wait for the composure to come one when the certain players start doing things differently. 

All teams bomb the ball in and hope the key forward bring it down, the high press is an issue, but its more of a an issue that on field does not adjust quick enough. 

Someone on here put up a great stat over the last few days of all the players and how few (many under 10 matches) matches have been played for the MFC.

I liken the midfield to Richmond, and what I mean by that, is that Richmond started winning premierships when Cotchin was 27 years of age and had played circa 190 games. That's a midfield (i cant be bothered to list the others) roughly 10 years into a career. Same with WCE.

Viney (whom is around B grade, aside from effort), Petracca, Oliver are circa 24 years old and played around 80-110 games... That is HALF of where Richmond were at before the started winning premierships and being consistently consistent.

I thought Cotchin was overrated, I thought they were lucky in 2017... nope. 

Consistency of playing together is what matters.

Yes, there will always be a turnover of players, yes there will always be a hope that we can improve in key positions, you're telling me the FD aren't actively trying to do that with the relationships they have by bringing n Langdon and Co, but they cannot do it all at once.

On a side note, I hate the language around someone will not be in the team to win the next premiership. For god's sake Mitch Morton won one, Steven Armstrong won one etc etc.

For mine Goodwin's relationship building and the context of preseason injuries, limited time playing together is why he will stay on for the next two years. 

Close wins and loses are always about versions of luck, and trying to limit 'luck' going against you.

I think the trajectory of this team will be on a steep curve up. Not in 2020 (i dont care about this season and see it as a glorified training run) but 2021 is where things will start to click, and not click through dumb luck, but click through a whole range of systematic process that have been finely tuned and the players have had more exposure to, to implement it time and time again together out there where it counts.

Anyway thats my two cents and this is why he hasn't been sacked already Jnr.

Because Football Clubs love relationships working, but they also love metrics beyond the WinLoss record.

If Goodwin still has the players, then he will still be there.

 

 

Edited by Engorged Onion
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