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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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9 hours ago, bush demon said:

So don't shoot the messenger this is just what my boss heard on 3AW.... initials SG.... announcement, Sunday.

Melbourne welcoming back Simon Godfrey to the club as a specialist kicking coach! 

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23 minutes ago, trout said:

I have been hearing rumours for most of the year that Petracca won’t be at Melbourne next year, I hope it’s not true, one of a handful that has improved this year. I have also thought it to be a load of rot and thought nothing of it, but given the year we have had I would say watch this space. 

would legit not sign up if we lost him. 

Hogan and then Petracca...not to mention others...

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Die Hard Demon said:

imagine if we brought in Ross Lyon on the back of sacking Goodwin.. i’d leave the country permanently 

I'd return to the country immediately. (I wouldn't, but i would be over the [censored] moon with an experienced coach that took his clubs to finals 8/13 years)

Edited by John Demonic
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29 minutes ago, trout said:

I have been hearing rumours for most of the year that Petracca won’t be at Melbourne next year, I hope it’s not true, one of a handful that has improved this year. I have also thought it to be a load of rot and thought nothing of it, but given the year we have had I would say watch this space. 

at least his value has gone up :)

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7 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

Excellent post Rusty - very well thought out and articulated.

The biggest issue for us posters on Demonland is we don't know all of the facts. And on the limited facts we have I wholeheartedly agree with the points raised by yourself.

I also want to make myself clear - I don't automatically disagree with the dissenting viewpoint.

Goodwin has faults, he has made mistakes and some big mistakes IMO, but are these automatically sackable? Was the failure completely Goodwin or a combination of leadership issues? Is change needed or will he learn and improve?? Will it force changes that are needed to be successful? Was he suitably provided all of the support he needed? There are a lot of mitigating factors for this years failures and we are not even started talking about results or the requirement for the game plan to change or the players ability to execute in 2019 due to various reasons (which some have come to light on the forum recently).

I'd be amazed if the board sack him now, mainly because the board agreed to resign him 6 months ago for a further 2 year. What changed so dramatically that change is now needed? Was the proper process not followed? Was any process undertaken? Clearly these questions won't be answered on Demonland but on face value that points to a complete failure by the powers that be.

If Goodwin is sacked (and this is pure speculation at this stage), I think the bigger story here is the failure of the MFC leadership.

And that is what you and I are talking about @Rusty Nails, the lack of stability and leadership at this club is the biggest issue holding back the MFC.

I am really excited to see what plays out over the next month or 2, it is going to be very interesting

 

 

@Rusty Nails

Ross Lyon is on 57% win loss right? And that's after taking a hit with the last 4 seasons. WOuld make sense to appoint a coach like that if he became available.

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43 minutes ago, trout said:

I have been hearing rumours for most of the year that Petracca won’t be at Melbourne next year, I hope it’s not true, one of a handful that has improved this year. I have also thought it to be a load of rot and thought nothing of it, but given the year we have had I would say watch this space. 

Where exactly have you heard these rumours? One of the girls who works for me is good friends with him and at the start of the year she was telling me how much he loves the club. Unless things have changed in the last six months hard to believe that. 

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10 minutes ago, AllMyTeamsAreWank said:

Where exactly have you heard these rumours? One of the girls who works for me is good friends with him and at the start of the year she was telling me how much he loves the club. Unless things have changed in the last six months hard to believe that. 

When he was trying to get the hook out of his mouth.

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14 minutes ago, AllMyTeamsAreWank said:

Where exactly have you heard these rumours? One of the girls who works for me is good friends with him and at the start of the year she was telling me how much he loves the club. Unless things have changed in the last six months hard to believe that. 

Same person who told me Weideman needs / needed hip surgery half way through the year. Don’t get me wrong up until today’s news about Petracca’s management speaking to to the club I thought it was a joke and it still might be. It could also be the club wants to trade Petracca.

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1 minute ago, trout said:

Same person who told me Weideman needs / needed hip surgery half way through the year. Don’t get me wrong up until today’s news about Petracca’s management speaking to to the club I thought it was a joke and it still might be. It could also be the club wants to trade Petracca.

I'd be a pretty [censored] off member if the club traded one of the few decent players from this season. I'd also be shitty if they traded him even if he wanted to go. Especially after the Hogan debacle and how Kelly has gone at the cats. 

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7 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

@Rusty Nails

Ross Lyon is on 57% win loss right? And that's after taking a hit with the last 4 seasons. WOuld make sense to appoint a coach like that if he became available.

Correct JD ...for regular season.

Ranked 15th of all time in win/loss records for coaches who went on to coach more than 3 seasons (ie; approx 70 plus games or more).  I have chosen 3 seasons as i suspect very few coaches new to the game would be signed to more than 3 years in their first stint and that first 3 years the win/loss results might' be skewed somewhat statistically taking on the previous coach's list.

Getting into the 4th year and beyond, the list is starting to more accurately reflect the make up / method of play that the coach is looking to implement and his 'preferred/required' players at the draft/trade table.

15th of all time is a stunning number in anyone's language.

Better record than Hinkley, Williams, Buckley, Kennedy & Hardwick.

On par with Sheedy / Malthouse and just shy of the likes of Bobby Rose, Mathews and Parkin.

Logically we would be insane to knock back someone with this record given our history over the last 55 years.

Would he be a good fit with this list?  What sort of baggage does he bring if any?  Could/Would Demon fans handle the dour method/style he is often associated with, even if we were winning most games and assuming we were occasionally making finals?

If the list were a fit and he was able to get somewhere near a 57% winning record?  Very bloody tempting given our present parlous state!

Many, including plenty on here will say the complete opposite though.  There are rumours (scuttlebutt?) that he allegedly could be somewhat toxic and best to lay off but that could just be the usual naysayers looking for a scapegoat or those out of favour with Ross.

Let's not forget that Roos was Ross's protege' before he coached us and many on here have been calling for his return of late...

Extract courtesy of "thewest.com.au"...

AFL great Paul Roos has slammed Fremantle’s sacking of coach Ross Lyon, branding the decision as “bizarre” and “weak” in the face of rising criticism against the club.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

 

 

Edited by Unleash Hell
Rusty handled it
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7 minutes ago, AllMyTeamsAreWank said:

I'd be a pretty [censored] off member if the club traded one of the few decent players from this season. I'd also be shitty if they traded him even if he wanted to go. Especially after the Hogan debacle and how Kelly has gone at the cats. 

Yep agree totally with you.

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Just wondering, if Goodwin moved onto Adelaide’s head coaching gig, would that mean we would avoid the payout?

For example, Pyke sacked, Goodwin to Adelaide.

Just a rumour I read on twitter...

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3 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Just wondering, if Goodwin moved onto Adelaide’s head coaching gig, would that mean we would avoid the payout?

For example, Pyke sacked, Goodwin to Adelaide.

Just a rumour I read on twitter...

Under the north issue,  if Scott gets a new gig the north payout of 2020 is offset against his new salary.

Otherwise, kangas have to pay up in full for 2020 to Scott. 

I don't know if that is standard, and also depends if coach resigns or is sacked , which would then determine payout based on contract.

There's some weird stuff going on in the AFL HR wise that you just don't see outside the game.

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3 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Just wondering, if Goodwin moved onto Adelaide’s head coaching gig, would that mean we would avoid the payout?

For example, Pyke sacked, Goodwin to Adelaide.

Just a rumour I read on twitter...

Dunno...but sounds ok...lets do it and find out !! ;)

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“If your life depended on results next year, and you said you can have one of these two guys coaching next year, I’m taking Ross Lyon because I’ve seen it,” King told SEN’s Crunch Time.

“I’ve seen him correct a club, bring standards, raise the bar with standards, attach players to become the driving force, empower them for every decision and deliver a game plan that, while some don’t like it, it wins home and away games.

“He hasn’t won the ultimate, but he does ring the rag dry on the players and maybe that has a lifespan, but in a one-off block, you’d say Ross.”

Would the Dees be better off in 2020 with Lyon instead of Goodwin?

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17 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

“If your life depended on results next year, and you said you can have one of these two guys coaching next year, I’m taking Ross Lyon because I’ve seen it,” King told SEN’s Crunch Time.

“I’ve seen him correct a club, bring standards, raise the bar with standards, attach players to become the driving force, empower them for every decision and deliver a game plan that, while some don’t like it, it wins home and away games.

“He hasn’t won the ultimate, but he does ring the rag dry on the players and maybe that has a lifespan, but in a one-off block, you’d say Ross.”

Would the Dees be better off in 2020 with Lyon instead of Goodwin?

Interesting post when you reference the heading of, Is Goodwin the right guy?

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17 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Interesting post when you reference the heading of, Is Goodwin the right guy?

Well this is it  for me. It's not whether he has any ability,it's not whether he has the group or not etc etc..add in any number of appropriate metrics. it's whether or not he's the RIGHT guy...for US...the BEST option. Whether he is likely to get us Silverware, let alone wins, become consistently competitive etc etc

Im not sure if I just read some folk wrong but I get the impression for some it's almost more about Simon than it is US. I'm not interested in being a learning centre for developing SENIOR coaches...assistants...fine..but not the Managing Coach .He ought to have his schtick together. Just having a bit of paper and time at other clubs etc is of itself no guarantee..

And its upon this premise that I believe he ISNT the right guy. Not for us, and not now.

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26 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Well this is it  for me. It's not whether he has any ability,it's not whether he has the group or not etc etc..add in any number of appropriate metrics. it's whether or not he's the RIGHT guy...for US...the BEST option. Whether he is likely to get us Silverware, let alone wins, become consistently competitive etc etc

Im not sure if I just read some folk wrong but I get the impression for some it's almost more about Simon than it is US. I'm not interested in being a learning centre for developing SENIOR coaches...assistants...fine..but not the Managing Coach .He ought to have his schtick together. Just having a bit of paper and time at other clubs etc is of itself no guarantee..

And its upon this premise that I believe he ISNT the right guy. Not for us, and not now.

Those who signed him up early, after such a poor Preliminary Final can take a good hard look at themselves too. Could have so easily signed a contract during the bye week. 

I wonder whether he would have been signed under that scenario?

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Perhaps there is an understanding and an acknowledgement within the club that Goodwin wants to head back to Adelaide at some stage - not that he isn't invested in Melbourne of course,(or at a minimum, his career as a coach). Hence signing him on earlier this year to ward off Adelaide (and a little premature based on the prelim).

Perhaps there are also caveats based on performance in his contract, and that should a position open up elsewhere, he is free to pursue them. 

There are many permutations...and perhaps the cosmos has aligned for both parties.

postscript: Personally I dont think this WILL ACTUALLY happen - but would not be surprised as well, it is the AFL and it moves steadily to an an American stylised free for all for whomever you wish, be it player, fd department, coach. 

 

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20 hours ago, John Demonic said:

@Rusty Nails

Ross Lyon is on 57% win loss right? And that's after taking a hit with the last 4 seasons. WOuld make sense to appoint a coach like that if he became available.

Would be interesting which experienced coaches were available when Hawthorn appointed Clarkson or Geelong Thompson.

Malthouse worked out really well for Carlton and Eade for GCS. 

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2 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Perhaps there is an understanding and an acknowledgement within the club that Goodwin wants to head back to Adelaide at some stage - not that he isn't invested in Melbourne of course,(or at a minimum, his career as a coach). Hence signing him on earlier this year to ward off Adelaide (and a little premature based on the prelim).

Perhaps there are also caveats based on performance in his contract, and that should a position open up elsewhere, he is free to pursue them. 

There are many permutations...and perhaps the cosmos has aligned for both parties.

postscript: Personally I dont think this WILL ACTUALLY happen - but would not be surprised as well, it is the AFL and it moves steadily to an an American stylised free for all for whomever you wish, be it player, fd department, coach. 

 

I'd suggest the club extended Goodwin because they have seen enough of what he brings to commit to him longer term. While this year has been an on field disaster, the players, coaches and club will learn from this and make changes that not only help for 2020 but for the next 5-10 years. 

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On the weekend we should be celebrating Jordan Lewis joining the coaching panel we welcome Alan Richardson with a yet to be arranged role.

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6 minutes ago, chookrat said:

I'd suggest the club extended Goodwin because they have seen enough of what he brings to commit to him longer term. While this year has been an on field disaster, the players, coaches and club will learn from this and make changes that not only help for 2020 but for the next 5-10 years. 

We dont even pay our National Leader for what he says he'll  deliver as opposed our Coach  irrespective  of what he does  deliver.

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36 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

On the weekend we should be celebrating Jordan Lewis joining the coaching panel we welcome Alan Richardson with a yet to be arranged role.

Interesting perspectives 

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