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Dees2014

Is Goodwin the right guy....

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23 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im sure some here think I have some pathological hatred of the bloke...and some others. I'm here to say I don't. The reality is I have no care for an opinion for most unless they impact the club. Im sure  Goody, Macca, Josh , Todd etc etc are all people I could enjoy a beer with and wax lyrical given other opportunity but in terms of whats happening to the MFC it's not whether I or anyone likes them....or doesn't.  It's about whether they are giving us what we want ...especially for the buck.  Success.  And they aren't.

it's not personal...just ever so much matter of FACT. Time to go you guys.

There is nothing wrong with that argument.

My point (although probably badly made) is that there are different measurement of success than just the scoreboard or ladder. Old mate Roosy himself has said the same thing.

To build a winning culture and a good club etc etc it takes time, patience the path isn't straight, there will be set backs.  Olld mate Peter J used to say that.

At the end of the day it depends what you want out of football. The media and fans want results and they want them quickly. As a society we have no patience and I do get it, we are a club starved or any real success. I want to see it as much as the rest of us on here. but there is no perfect path. No one club's path would be the same as any others. There are 18 clubs and if everything is 100% even that's a 5% chance every year of success. 5%

I personally still think we are building. Fix up the defence issues (We are too easily scored against) cut out the terrible ball use errors, the kicking for goal issues (which I think experience has a big part in this - but for some it is inexcusable) and some good luck with injuries, I honestly believe we can turn it around next year under Goody. But the off season is very important for fitness and off season moves (on and off field)

But he can't afford to keep having losing seasons, I 100% agree with that. 

Edited by Unleash Hell
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5 minutes ago, Beetle said:

I just wish he would speak like he is speaking to any one of his mates, instead of the robotic rehearsed media training rubbish he brings week in week out.

I understand the need to tow the company line every now and then, but for [censored] sake cut the monotone [censored], show some emotion and speak frankly. 

The supporters deserve it after this diabolical year. It’s too late the stem the bleeding now...

I think if Goody had a range of emotions in relation to coaching we would have seen them over the past 4 years. i think he is very much the talented sportsman who did all the right things in relation to getting himself right to play at a successful parochial interstate club and unfortunately out of his depth and comfort zone at MFC. And in a position that has beaten far more credentialed coaches including the great RD Barassi. So in my view he needs an enormous amount of emotional and game day support otherwise it is all going to end in another teary press conference.

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I just watched Goody’s Presser

That is the first time i have heard him speak naturally. It was good. He knows the sharks are moving in. 

But is he strong enough to get through it?

 I hope he does, but the talk must be converted into action 

That first Quarter 1.5 to 5.1 says it all..and the 4 Quarter fitness

He must demand the Club give him better fitter athletes...

 

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The bottom line is, Goodwin has next year to prove he is the right guy. Missing finals next year will mark his papers. We can’t waste this window. 

2020 will be a make or break year for him and the club. 

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It's amateurish to not have conditions applied to coaching contracts.  Makes it easier to dispense with a coach in that instance.

e.g. Man Utd coach David Moyes was given a 6 year contract a few years back but because he didn't reach certain KPI's in his first year he was sacked and only received 1 year's salary of his 6 year deal. 

High standards were applied and expected and because he didn't meet those standards,  he was let go. 

He still received a hefty payout and was free to manage elsewhere in an immediate sense. 

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3 minutes ago, Jaded said:

The bottom line is, Goodwin has next year to prove he is the right guy. Missing finals next year will mark his papers. We can’t waste this window. 

2020 will be a make or break year for him and the club. 

I said it a few days ago. If he wants any chance at succeeding being a full time Coach there won’t be much of a holiday this Summer, he is going to have to work full time right through. 

We need a team that is physically and mentally sharpened up by 5-10%

The effort is there, has been every week. But the players are not able to perform at the level on game day

First Quarter is not fatigue, it’s upstairs

Fourth Quarter is Fatigue...

Both are not up to AFL standard...

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10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I just watched Goody’s Presser

That is the first time i have heard him speak naturally. It was good. He knows the sharks are moving in. 

But is he strong enough to get through it?

 I hope he does, but the talk must be converted into action 

That first Quarter 1.5 to 5.1 says it all..and the 4 Quarter fitness

He must demand the Club give him better fitter athletes...

 

Call me nuts but if that is true at least I can blame being a Dees supporter since 64.  we know goalkicking has been a weakness all year.If as many say the players are cooked what would have hurt to have had the past weeks training primarily focused on goalkicking with a light physical load. As a coach back your own destiny and tell Mission to go jump.

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Its becoming less common for AFL coaches to be paid out their full contract. 

Macca left his behind at WBD.  Scott did also in the sense that he will be paid by North for next year only if he does not get another coaching gig.  Bolton was an employee with some security but not on a term contract so they had a negotiated payout.  Richardson was out of contract this year with a trigger clause for next year which didn't happen. 

So, it depends how a contract is structured and the nature of 'out' clauses. 

I would hope the club has linked at least part of Goodwin's contract to performance eg making finals, # of finals won etc.

After all that is how sponsorship agreements are structured.

Having said that I really don't expect Goodwin to be sacked.  I reckon he will make it - if we get some better people around him.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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1 minute ago, Sorry kids said:

Call me nuts but if that is true at least I can blame being a Dees supporter since 64.  we know goalkicking has been a weakness all year.If as many say the players are cooked what would have hurt to have had the past weeks training primarily focused on goalkicking with a light physical load. As a coach back your own destiny and tell Mission to go jump.

I have no idea why Goal Kicking is not a standard training routine, i don’t understand why there are 10 coaches in the box and nothing changes in 17 weeks either

 

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At last a bit of emotion in his message to the fans. Good to see him angry and pizzed off and saying “ enough is enough “ It will be interesting to se if it translates into action. 

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If you havent already, take a look at his "after the siren" video from today.

He has finally shown that losing hurts. Its the first time i have seen him show what borders on anger at losing.

I am not celebrating his being upset so much as hoping that it translates into something that shows on the park.

If he finally realises that you cant "cuddle" this team into good form, then i call today a win.

Get up 'em Goody. You cant be everyones friend with so much riding on the result.

 

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2019-07-21/rd-18-after-the-siren-simon-goodwin

Edited by ding
Great minds Chook.......
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14 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Its becoming less common for AFL coaches to be paid out their full contract. 

Macca left his behind at WBD.  Scott did also in the sense that he will be paid by North for next year only if he does not get another coaching gig.  Bolton was an employee with some security but not on a term contract so they had a negotiated payout.  Richardson was out of contract this year with a trigger clause for next year which didn't happen. 

So, it depends how a contract is structured and the nature of 'out' clauses.

Having said that I really don't expect Goodwin to be sacked.  I reckon he will make it - if a lot of the people around him are changed.  And if we get him a good mentor.

 

Big IF....a mighy big IF

Goodwin is a product of others. They all need to go...but the others if not Goidwin

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7 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

At last a bit of emotion in his message to the fans. Good to see him angry and pizzed off and saying “ enough is enough “ It will be interesting to se if it translates into action. 

Frankly, Goody getting angry at this point of the season is not going to do anything other than confuse the players. 

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Would have thought "enough's enough" should have come about 6 rounds in when we'd only won 1 game and had been smashed in half the games, rather than after round 18 when we're 17th on the ladder.

It would if we were a good club. It would if we were a more demanding club. It would if we had genuine hunger for success.

But no, this is the group that doesn't review games, cancels anything that's too hard and rolls out the 'that one will burn' cliche whenever needed despite never backing it up.

Couldn't care less about Goody's 'emotion' or lack thereof, is that our latest alternative scoreboard? How much emotion Goody shows? Geez we have low expectations now don't we.

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1 minute ago, Sorry kids said:

Frankly, Goody getting angry at this point of the season is not going to do anything other than confuse the players. 

Too bad.

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17 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Frankly, Goody getting angry at this point of the season is not going to do anything other than confuse the players. 

the players already look confused.

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On 7/20/2019 at 7:59 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

Three teams above us have sacked their coach and the pressure is also on Hinkley and perhaps Pyke.

The .. we have to stick with him... brigade amuse me.

Sacking your coach gets you a membership boost if done the right way... just ask the three teams that have sacked theirs

Brad Scott was at North for 10 years

Richardson at the Saints for 6 with not much to show for it

Bolton at the Blues for 4 with no runs on the board whatsoever

Hinkley has been at Port for 7 years and they're still flakey, haven't done anything since his first couple of seasons

Pyke will not get sacked this year and is basically in the position Goodwin will be in next year if our poor form continues into 2020

Goodwin is in his 3rd year and has just missed fi also by the narrowest margin ever and then took the side to a prelim. We've had a very bad season and he has some learning to do but he and the club should have some runs on the board to wait and see how they rebound next year with a fitter list and some of our young guys another year in. To compare him to the other coaches above is just dumb

 

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On 7/20/2019 at 7:59 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

Three teams above us have sacked their coach and the pressure is also on Hinkley and perhaps Pyke.

The .. we have to stick with him... brigade amuse me.

Sacking your coach gets you a membership boost if done the right way... just ask the three teams that have sacked theirs

And I couldn't give a stuff about membership boosts, I just want to see onfield success. And that is more likely to come from off field stability rather than emotional bloodletting.

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Pressure, folks.

Earlier this week, King said there was now pressure on his job. Someone mentioned on Monday that "over the past 48 hours we've learned" that his job was under pressure. Can't remember who it was.

He's been comfortable thinking of a long term contract, and talking positivity of a team that's underperforming. 

Coincidentally, a week after some in the media say pressure has risen, he gets worked up in a press release after yet another lose in yet another winnable game.

This is it, folks. 

In the words of Percy Wetmore...

"Dead man walkin'. We got a dead man walkin' 'ere."

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1 minute ago, praha said:

Pressure, folks.

Earlier this week, King said there was now pressure on his job. Someone mentioned on Monday that "over the past 48 hours we've learned" that his job was under pressure. Can't remember who it was.

He's been comfortable thinking of a long term contract, and talking positivity of a team that's underperforming. 

Coincidentally, a week after some in the media say pressure has risen, he gets worked up in a press release after yet another lose in yet another winnable game.

This is it, folks. 

In the words of Percy Wetmore...

"Dead man walkin'. We got a dead man walkin' 'ere."

I too, think he has always showed himself as a man secure in a long term contract. It is also on display with his lack of urgency. Lets see how he handled the added pressure coming his way. I am concerned because he has no success as a non footballer, Coach or Captain to fall back on.

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28 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Frankly, Goody getting angry at this point of the season is not going to do anything other than confuse the players. 

Unless of course he lets them have it more than we know.  I never watch press conferences for the above reason. Coach-speak 101 ain't for me.

I have always judged a coach by the way the team performs on the weekends.  But I judge the players in the same way. 

So it's a bit of both in terms of the critique.  It has to be that way too.  Both can get accolades and both can get critiqued harshly.  Same goes for the FD,  Admin & Board.

Judge them all in the same way I say.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Brad Scott was at North for 10 years

Richardson at the Saints for 6 with not much to show for it

Bolton at the Blues for 4 with no runs on the board whatsoever

Hinkley has been at Port for 7 years and they're still flakey, haven't done anything since his first couple of seasons

Pyke will not get sacked this year and is basically in the position Goodwin will be in next year if our poor form continues into 2020

Goodwin is in his 3rd year and has just missed fi also by the narrowest margin ever and then took the side to a prelim. We've had a very bad season and he has some learning to do but he and the club should have some runs on the board to wait and see how they rebound next year with a fitter list and some of our young guys another year in. To compare him to the other coaches above is just dumb

 

Goodwin has grossly under performed at this stage. Round 23 2017 was a disgrace, as was the Prelim. Coaches rarely if ever bounce back from the type of drop we've seen this year. He's an exceptionally average coach.

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1 minute ago, praha said:

Goodwin has grossly under performed at this stage. Round 23 2017 was a disgrace, as was the Prelim. Coaches rarely if ever bounce back from the type of drop we've seen this year. He's an exceptionally average coach.

How has he grossly underperformed? Do you think we should have won a premiership in his first 2 seasons? If so it's your expectations that need to be re-evaluated, not the coach.

This year has been bad. Bad all round and some readjustments need to be made in the offseason. But he's earnt the right to be given the benefit of the doubt for one season, especially consideri g the diabolical state of our injury list.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How has he grossly underperformed? Do you think we should have won a premiership in his first 2 seasons? If so it's your expectations that need to be re-evaluated, not the coach.

This year has been bad. Bad all round and some readjustments need to be made in the offseason. But he's earnt the right to be given the benefit of the doubt for one season, especially consideri g the diabolical state of our injury list.

Third year as a coach, five years in a senior role. Moving toward  the end of his third year we are 17th place and back where it all began under Roos.. If you average the three years- 9th, 4th, 17th  the average is 10th place. Perhaps grossly is a stretch but none of us would have settled for an average of 10th place when we had the Roos-Goodwin handover sold to us. A crystal ball tells me 10th would be about right for us next year too.

 

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8 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Goodwin owns the gameplan which has to rank as the worst or at least the worst executed in the league.

It's a game plan that is doomed to fail other than for short patches within a season (subject to most of your best players being fit and in form which we clearly have been a mile off having on the park since the season started).

The two most successful teams over the last decade or so (Cats and Hawks), don't play a chaos game for the entire match or matches on end for good reason.  And they certainly don't use it as a major method of game style when moving the ball up the field from defence.

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