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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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12 hours ago, Redleg said:

I am not saying Goodwin is a good or bad Coach but last year we loved him and this year some want him out.  

We have to accept that there was more than Coaching that caused this year. If we don’t we truly are a rabble. 

Peter Jackson spoke at the end of last year and warned the supporters and club about panicking and melting down when the inevitable backwards step came. Linear progression for 6,7,8 years on the way to a flag is unheard of and was unlikely to happen for us. The backwards step has been more dramatic than we would have liked it expected but the supporters need to show faith the club is on the right track. If this continues into next year then questions will be asked but at this stage I'm willing to write this off as a bad year and learning year.

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33 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This happens all over the ground not just in the forward line. Drives me berserk seeing players do half hearted leads, or worse no leads at all which then doesn't open up space for players behind them to lead into. Makes it so easy to defend as well because the ball invariably gets kicked on top of their heads so the defender can jump over the top to spoil or intercept.

There's a coaching issue as well but what if the players just aren't good enough anyway?

We could replace the most of the forward line (save for Petracca) and I wouldn't bat an eyelid.  T-Mac as well if he can regain his consistency.  Melksham has been missed but his form before getting injured was questionable. 

It's as bad as I've seen and I watched all of the 70's.  Can't take a grab to save ourselves and we just don't look like it.  Change of personnel needed in the off-season

By contrast,  I have no such concerns with the midfield & backline.  Those areas aren't perfect obviously but our forward line is diabolically bad.

And I have been saying the same thing since round 1.  The focus here was on Oscar & Frost but they were never really the issue as we always had May & Lever returning.  Biding time so to speak.

But where are our replacements for our dysfunctional forward line?  The off-season most likely.  Rawlings needs some talent to work with (that's if he remains in the position)

Edited by Macca
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20 minutes ago, Macca said:

There's a coaching issue as well but what if the players just aren't good enough anyway?

We could replace the whole forward line (save for Petracca) and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. 

It's as bad as I've seen and I watched all of the 70's.  Can't take a grab to save ourselves and we just don't look like it.  Change of personnel needed in the off-season

By contrast,  I have no such concerns with the midfield & backline.  Those areas aren't perfect obviously but our forward line is diabolically bad.

And I have been saying the same thing since round 1.  The focus here was on Oscar & Frost but they were never really the issue as we always had May & Lever returning.  Biding time so to speak.

But where are our replacements for our dysfunctional forward line?  The off-season most likely.  Rawlings needs some talent to work with (that's if he remains in the position)

Agree we desperately need TMac to find his prior form, Petracca to nail his set shots, Weid to develop and to recruit 2 crumbing goalsneaks.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Agree we desperately need TMac to find his prior form, Petracca to nail his set shots, Weid to develop and to recruit 2 crumbing goalsneaks.

I'd recruit 2 key forwards ... tired of seeing the list clogged up with inbetweeners & NQR's

Trade for 1 (free agent?) and draft one as well.  Trade for a small forward whilst drafting another is on the cards too.

If we make 10 list changes and we use half of those spots for forwards,  we can get back in the game.

I'd be surprised if the FD would be happy to go with T-Mac & Weideman alone.  Most surprised.

In a really good team with a top-rate list I see T-Mac as the 2nd or 3rd forward with a Weideman as back-up.

And the FD has to be planning for a top-rate list capable of winning multiple flags. 

Think big and aim big is the only way.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They didn't review the prelim with the players. I don't think they've ever said the coaches didn't review the game.

The mistakes we saw in that Prelim final (more so in the first half in that game) did give us a hint at what we might see going forward.  Again,  we've seen the same types of errors from round 1. 

We choked,  got stage fright,  whatever you want to call it,  but the mistakes have remained.  The nightmare continued.  We all wanted it to go away but we've seen more of the same.

So we win 4 games in a row leading into that prelim final and play some really good footy and then we hit a brick wall.  We haven't recovered either Gonzo.

The coach stays but we need an influx of talent in the right areas and same deal for the FD.  Sometimes you just have to make changes to try and get better.  If that doesn't work,  change the head coach.  He's got 3 years left on his contract so he'll be coaching next year anyway.

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11 hours ago, Macca said:

The mistakes we saw in that Prelim final (more so in the first half in that game) did give us a hint at what we might see going forward.  Again,  we've seen the same types of errors from round 1. 

We choked,  got stage fright,  whatever you want to call it,  but the mistakes have remained.  The nightmare continued.  We all wanted it to go away but we've seen more of the same.

So we win 4 games in a row leading into that prelim final and play some really good footy and then we hit a brick wall.  We haven't recovered either Gonzo.

The coach stays but we need an influx of talent in the right areas and same deal for the FD.  Sometimes you just have to make changes to try and get better.  If that doesn't work,  change the head coach.  He's got 3 years left on his contract so he'll be coaching next year anyway.

We were stuffed before we went out on the ground.....stuffed because the Eagle had their plan B ( Be for B cleverer than these fools and Beat the living Jaysuz out of them ) and stuffed because we were spent..totally. They were running on empty. There was a very simple reason for this.

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17 hours ago, Macca said:

The pressure from our forwards is one of many areas where we are being let down.

Watch our forwards carefully ... they won't adhere to fundamentals and fail in all areas (as a collective)

Not playing in front

No multiple leads (think Nick Rewoldt)

No making space (not enough anyway)

No real forward line teamwork (they don't work as a unit)

Non existant forward line pressure. 

Kicking at goal is abysmal ( a combination of choking & yips)  Poor kicking actions to boot.

Face it,  there's hardly a redeeming feature to be seen.  An epic fail.  Coach killers.

Petracca is the only shining light ... I solitary forward.  Yet he often remains the focus as many expect A grade according to his draft pick number.

 

Good post Macca and very fixable with one off season. Two pressure forwards and a decent contested mark are needed.

Cats forward line last year couldn't keep anything in their forward 50 due to having no pressure at the ground level 

Smart trading picking up of free agents may not guarantee us being absolute top 4 contenders but the improvement would see greater reward for our inside 50s and subsequent turn in our results..

Defensive work of the mids and more outside run also need work 

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1 minute ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Good post Macca and very fixable with one off season. Two pressure forwards and a decent contested mark are needed.

Cats forward line last year couldn't keep anything in their forward 50 due to having no pressure at the ground level 

Smart trading picking up of free agents may not guarantee us being absolute top 4 contenders but the improvement would see greater reward for our inside 50s and subsequent turn in our results..

Defensive work of the mids and more outside run also need work 

Im trying not to sound like the broken record but yes it may be fixable in the off season. Anything can I suppose if there's the will and the acumen. I do wonder though why it even needs fixing. we are talking about the most basic fundamentals of playing football ..I would have thought.

The issues Macca raises should not be issues. They ought to be so ingrained into the psyche of players that anything else would be nigh on impossible.

You dont get to the AFL to only begin to learn the game then...You've honed your craft over probably a decade of competition and rising through age groups and divisions. So why is it so many more than capable players have got to us ..and become walking disasters ?

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51 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Good post Macca and very fixable with one off season. Two pressure forwards and a decent contested mark are needed.

Cats forward line last year couldn't keep anything in their forward 50 due to having no pressure at the ground level 

Smart trading picking up of free agents may not guarantee us being absolute top 4 contenders but the improvement would see greater reward for our inside 50s and subsequent turn in our results..

Defensive work of the mids and more outside run also need work 

I reckon we're every chance to be a top 4 contender next year mate. Teams can beat us right now, because as you imply, we have no pressure at ground level in our forwardline. It comes out so easily. We're still 8th for clearances and 2nd for inside 50s, so learn to lock the ball in and we're back as a serious contender IMO.

I completely agree with your point about it being very fixable over the one off season and for at least one more year, I'll trust this FD (the one who has built trust with me) to make the right calls and learn from its oversights in the 2018-2019 off season.

I should also say in regards to oversights over the 2018-2019 off season, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the FD knew we'd slide quite a bit this year given all the injuries and restricted pre seasons. I'd say it's less likely they knew quite how far we'd fall though.

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21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im trying not to sound like the broken record but yes it may be fixable in the off season. Anything can I suppose if there's the will and the acumen. I do wonder though why it even needs fixing. we are talking about the most basic fundamentals of playing football ..I would have thought.

The issues Macca raises should not be issues. They ought to be so ingrained into the psyche of players that anything else would be nigh on impossible.

You dont get to the AFL to only begin to learn the game then...You've honed your craft over probably a decade of competition and rising through age groups and divisions. So why is it so many more than capable players have got to us ..and become walking disasters ?

Domino effect quite simple really, AVB massive out in terms of forward pressureand we probably need to move on from him, Garlett been done for 2 years, we improved last season when we moved him out, Melk is the best ball user of our forward 6.

It needs fixing because a lot of other things are still working but the drop off this season shows this part of the game plan needs tweaking. It has happened with more lowering of the eyes and lateral movement but it isn't ingrained enough and under pressure they revert back to sending chaos balls in.

The games we"ve done well in are the ones where we've been better with our movement inside 50 and when we have won plenty of ground ball in there. It hasn't been consistent enough.

I like Weid but needs another year of development and would like to see us trade for or pick up another big forward to stay at home and let Tmac play up the ground. 

I get you don't rate Goody, Stevie Wonder could see that, but I don't mind him. He has learning to do and should learn more from this season than he has since retirement.

Changes I want to see are in the Assistant role with some fresh ideas and plenty of experience 

Mcartney, Matthews, Plapp, Chaplin, Rooke all replaced. The final makeup looking something like

Alan Richardson in as Senior Assistant 

Rawlings as defensive coach

Ratten/Knights as midfield coach

Lewis as stoppage coach 

Tudor as forward coach

 

 

 

 

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On 7/19/2019 at 9:58 AM, Redleg said:

I am not saying Goodwin is a good or bad Coach but last year we loved him and this year some want him out.  

We have to accept that there was more than Coaching that caused this year. If we don’t we truly are a rabble. 

Simply untrue. Nice try at revisionism. For a start this thread was started in April 2018.

Second. If you look at our 2018 year it was basically rubbish until we changed our game style after the Swans game (rd 21) where we got poleaxed. Round 22 we went to perth and had a memorable win that started 4 wins in a row including 2 finals.

If we are being really serious we had 4 good weeks. Our game plan was still questionable with us being very easy to score against and chaotic on our fwd entries.

Many of us said the jury was still out on Goodwin and it still is. I still can't get over the last round of 2017 where we didn't lay a tackle for the first 15 minutes and lost the game and a shot at finals. That was a massive black mark about his coaching ability and his bewildering selections week after week still say to me the jury is out.

He has a long way to go.

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4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Simply untrue. Nice try at revisionism. For a start this thread was started in April 2018.

Second. If you look at our 2018 year it was basically rubbish until we changed our game style after the Swans game (rd 21) where we got poleaxed. Round 22 we went to perth and had a memorable win that started 4 wins in a row including 2 finals.

If we are being really serious we had 4 good weeks. Our game plan was still questionable with us being very easy to score against and chaotic on our fwd entries.

Many of us said the jury was still out on Goodwin and it still is. I still can't get over the last round of 2017 where we didn't lay a tackle for the first 15 minutes and lost the game and a shot at finals. That was a massive black mark about his coaching ability and his bewildering selections week after week still say to me the jury is out.

He has a long way to go.

I left out the word “late” before “last year “. 

What I meant to say was that late last year, during the finals, we loved Goodwin, but this year some want him gone. 

That is not revisionist. 

You may have not loved him during the finals, but I dare say most DL’s did. 

Agree with your last line though that he has a long way to go. Also agree that some of his selections are baffling and I will add that parts of our game are terrible.

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29 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

what you said

(noted for brevity only )

PSD..Thanks for the considered answer.

We probably have no alternative to currently to watch and wait...and see what transpires.

I dont mind those changes by the way....can you organise that ....cheers

Edited by beelzebub

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14 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I left out the word “late” before “last year “. 

What I meant to say was that late last year, during the finals, we loved Goodwin, but this year some want him gone. 

That is not revisionist. 

You may have not loved him during the finals, but I dare say most DL’s did. 

Agree with your last line though that he has a long way to go. Also agree that some of his selections are baffling and I will add that parts of our game are terrible.

 

25 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Simply untrue. Nice try at revisionism. For a start this thread was started in April 2018.

Second. If you look at our 2018 year it was basically rubbish until we changed our game style after the Swans game (rd 21) where we got poleaxed. Round 22 we went to perth and had a memorable win that started 4 wins in a row including 2 finals.

If we are being really serious we had 4 good weeks. Our game plan was still questionable with us being very easy to score against and chaotic on our fwd entries.

Many of us said the jury was still out on Goodwin and it still is. I still can't get over the last round of 2017 where we didn't lay a tackle for the first 15 minutes and lost the game and a shot at finals. That was a massive black mark about his coaching ability and his bewildering selections week after week still say to me the jury is out.

He has a long way to go.

I hope that this is more another learning curve rather than a reflection of an underlying trend. 

Round 23 2017 was terrible and the start of my own concerns. vs Hawthorn last year it firmly embedded those concerns. I was willing to give him a pass after the Prelim and even after round 1 this year (you'll find I clashed with a few here after round 1 for defending Goodwin, including SWYL and beelzebub, arguing we would bounce back, but now we're all on the same page). 

I think it's convenient that we've had interrupted pre-seasons and injuries because it hides coaching inadequacies. However I also think it's a reflection of poor coaching choices, and a symptom of rather than a catalyst towards poor coaching.

Again i am willing to give him a pass because I think that's the reasonable thing to do. But this year has been a disgrace and utter failure. The lower we finish the less time Goodwin has left. Stay in 17th and he probably has 8-9 weeks in 2020 to show any sort of turnaround. 

There are so many variables that it's truly hard to get an accurate gauge on his coaching ability. But our worst games have come when we've been fit so I think that raises concerns. 

Tbh I'd have him at good odds to be the next coach gone. And I believe from rumblings I've heard that eyes and ears are already out for a possible replacement, should he be gone mid-season. This is why our assistant hirings in the off season are crucial. If Goodwin goes we need a reasonable replacement. We can't afford to wait until rounds 14-15 to see of we improve. If we're struggling 8 rounds in, cut losses and look for a replacement to get us into finals. We need this team to get finals experience.

Edited by praha

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1 hour ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Good post Macca and very fixable with one off season. Two pressure forwards and a decent contested mark are needed.

Cats forward line last year couldn't keep anything in their forward 50 due to having no pressure at the ground level 

Smart trading picking up of free agents may not guarantee us being absolute top 4 contenders but the improvement would see greater reward for our inside 50s and subsequent turn in our results..

Defensive work of the mids and more outside run also need work 

Nothing beats talent PSD ... when building a proper list you can't have too many 'He's ok' & 'He's Alright' types.  Faith is one thing but brutal honesty works better.

We've periodically over-insured on midfielder and inbetween types whilst leaving ourselves short elsewhere.

As previously stated (injuries aside) the acquisition of proven talent with Lever & May together with the improvement of Frost shores up our key backs (with Oscar as back-up) but we're light on up forward.  We don't have a proven gun key forward and there's no real back up.  We've tried out a variety of small forwards but haven't unearthed a star.

T-Mac has been a disappointment this season (prior to getting injured) but having the no.1 mantle thrust upon him might have been counter productive.  He's a more than decent no.2 or no.3 in my judgement.  Some players are better suited as the no.2. 

In a nutshell,  our recruiting in the off-season needs to be centred on improving our forward line,  injecting some pace and class elsewhere together with some outside running attributes.  Some pace out of the backline needs to be addressed looking ahead as well.

Our top end pick this off-season will probably be used on the best standout junior and that player may well be another midfielder type.  But we can trade and recruit for needs with all the rest of it.  I wonder if we might trade our 2020 first round pick?  And there's free agency to explore as well.  Plus,  we might trade out a player or 2 that represents value coming back.  I wouldn't rule anything out.

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We will have pic 2 this season to use on some high end talent. 

God knows who we will pic but I have NO confidence in the footy department to get it right. 

In fact I have no confidence in the coach either. We just seem to go from one disaster to another. We have had one good season 2018 in about 15 yrs. THATS PATHETIC. 

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2 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

We have had one good season 2018 in about 15 yrs. THATS PATHETIC. 

Driving to Casey today I reflected on the proposition that making finals should not be too hard.

Reach the top 8 of an 18 team comp including years with some deep cellar dwellers.

To do it once in 15 years is as you say.... "pathetic".

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2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Second. If you look at our 2018 year it was basically rubbish

Really?

This is the same side that won in Perth, won in Adelaide and won in Queensland while also stringing together six wins in a row in the middle part of the season.  

I can't argue with the fact we lost some winnable games, but to suggest 2018 was basically rubbish up until the end of the season is just that.  Rubbish.

And, to finish, we also peaked at the right time of the season when we beat the Eagles, GWS, Geelong and then Hawthorn.  I'd say, compared to the actual 'rubbish' we served up in previous seasons, that 2018 was a success.

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🤔 Im thinking we didnt peak quite at the right time ........

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15 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

🤔 Im thinking we didnt peak quite at the right time ........

Correct. Sadly most on here think close enough is good enough....

We were far from ready last year and even further away now...

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Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Correct. Sadly most on here think close enough is good enough....

We were far from ready last year and even further away now...

I didn't say that.  

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There is a one word answer to this whole thread, ‘No’. He has lost me. I am considering cancelling my membership until Goodwin is gone!

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Three teams above us have sacked their coach and the pressure is also on Hinkley and perhaps Pyke.

The .. we have to stick with him... brigade amuse me.

Sacking your coach gets you a membership boost if done the right way... just ask the three teams that have sacked theirs

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6 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Three teams above us have sacked their coach and the pressure is also on Hinkley and perhaps Pyke.

The .. we have to stick with him... brigade amuse me.

Sacking your coach gets you a membership boost if done the right way... just ask the three teams that have sacked theirs

Yes i am sure Nought Supporters are all missing the ex!!!

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