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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You could go even further...who if anyone is actually right for our club.

Jackson and Roos seemed to have it tacking in the right direction. Neither there now and it's like we're adrift at sea with Shettino at the helm !!

It's very hard to  gauge Bartlett.. 

Only reason I bring it up is the Mahoney/Pert fiasco when Jackson left, Bartlett may be quiet but a serial micro manager and control freak. As i said, I don't know or see day to day but he has never inspired me with confidence, especially his putrid radio interviews. Maybe he is causing unnecessary pressure through the whole club?

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2 minutes ago, SFebes said:

I'm not so sure it's a stable board and club tbh. But I wouldn't know. You seem triggered lately Redleg, unlike you I must say. Enjoy brother.

Not sure what you mean by “triggered” Febes, but as upset as everyone else on DL I am not convinced that Bartlett or Goodwin are to blame for this year. Well actually Goodwin does carry some blame but not sure that the Premiership coach of last year, Simpson , would have done much better given our injuries, poor pre season and some terrible skills shown by the available players. Just a few gimme goals kicked, would have given us a few more wins.

I don’t blame The Coach for players missing gimme goals when they are professional footballers who probably do nothing else than play footy. 

Anyway I enjoy the discussion. 

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2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Not sure what you mean by “triggered” Febes, but as upset as everyone else on DL I am not convinced that Bartlett or Goodwin are to blame for this year. Well actually Goodwin does carry some blame but not sure that the Premiership coach of last year, Simpson , would have done much better given our injuries, poor pre season and some terrible skills shown by the available players. Just a few gimme goals kicked, would have given us a few more wins.

I don’t blame The Coach for players missing gimme goals when they are professional footballers who probably do nothing else than play footy. 

Anyway I enjoy the discussion. 

Silly thing is mate, I agree with you. Thats why I haven't been posting this season, I knew before it started we were in trouble. Just not sure Bartlett is helping things is all.

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58 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Something got me thinking last night.....Is Bartlett the right guy?

Been wondering that for a long time

nice guy, yes but he grew up in WA and played for Meth Coke

Where is the connection and why....?

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11 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

So the afl didnt change the rules in the off season? Actually they changed them before the season ended and it was very public...No secrets here. We have just failed to adapt. That others have shows it's US..not them  imho

Injuries didnt happen? Now ask why so MANY...and the nature of them ?? How did that come about ( to such an inordinate amount !)

And no other trams got better....lol...thought the Tram was a reference to driving...maybe.. Well Teams are always going to ebb and flow...and some just spiral....down ;)

Interesting ... Like a train wreck

see above ;)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Redleg said:

I am not saying Goodwin is a good or bad Coach but last year we loved him and this year some want him out.  

We have to accept that there was more than Coaching that caused this year. If we don’t we truly are a rabble. 

More than coaching..That's an interestingly coined idea. What about our game is NOT actually determined by how we play it and go about it ? Technique ( maybe we could introduce this ...be a novelty ) Tempo, Training etc etc....all are edicts. They come from somewhere ( someone ) 

All roads lead to.....

I like winning Red. Last year we set alight the candle at both ends towards the eos...we did this because we couldnt win a snag raffle unless we did.  But it had consequences. All roads lead to.....

I accept we are a rabble

Edited by beelzebub

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2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

More than coaching..That's an interestingly coined idea. What about our game is NOT actually determined by how we play it and go about it ? Technique ( maybe we could this ...be a novelty ) Tempo, Training etc etc....all are edicts. They come from somewhere ( someone ) 

All roads lead to.....

I like winning Red. Last year we set alight the candle at both ends towards the eos...we did this because we couldnt win a snag raffle unless we did.  But it had consequences. All roads lead to.....

I accept we are a rabble

Yes it's undeniable bb.

I have read the very interesting navel gazing above. There is no absolute reason or single person to blame for our shitful state but it is a reality. I'm over it though.

For me the real hard questions will emerge in about a year's time. If this years history repeats itself then we will be an irrelevant and well [censored] footy club.

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1 hour ago, Redleg said:

I am not saying Goodwin is a good or bad Coach but last year we loved him and this year some want him out.  

We have to accept that there was more than Coaching that caused this year. If we don’t we truly are a rabble. 

Check out the comments after our loss to Hawthorn last year. I think you'll find most of the people criticizing him were also the most cautious heading into this season. Our worst footy under Goodwin hasn't come when we've been destroyed by injury. It's come when we've been healthy (round 23 2017, vs Hawthorn last year, Prelim). We've been broadly poor this year, but never truly terrible. Not to the extent we were vs Hawthorn or in the Prelim. We had zero tackles in the first 15 minutes in round 23 2017. It's not entirely a coaching issue but it went from being an outlier to a trend.

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5 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Yes it's undeniable bb.

I have read the very interesting navel gazing above. There is no absolute reason or single person to blame for our shitful state but it is a reality. I'm over it though.

For me the real hard questions will emerge in about a year's time. If this years history repeats itself then we will be an irrelevant and well [censored] footy club.

I find it incredibly ironic that not 30 secs ago I actually had the club on the phone. Maybe its not only Google that listens to everything  !!

BBO. It concerns me that we may well repeat this year next.

Id seriously counter that person/people are not to blame. Heres why:

if you or anyone is to accept that we can alter our course , that we can instigate plans  that cause us to do better, to win, to succeed then surely the opposite must hold true also. That is to say our predicament is also a consequence of a design, an implementation and course of action. Things are built , anything, to a design. Someone has had to create that. Then from the masterplan, the big picture come directives, delegations etc to bring about the construct. A poor design does not end well. 

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43 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I find it incredibly ironic that not 30 secs ago I actually had the club on the phone. Maybe its not only Google that listens to everything  !!

BBO. It concerns me that we may well repeat this year next.

Id seriously counter that person/people are not to blame. Heres why:

if you or anyone is to accept that we can alter our course , that we can instigate plans  that cause us to do better, to win, to succeed then surely the opposite must hold true also. That is to say our predicament is also a consequence of a design, an implementation and course of action. Things are built , anything, to a design. Someone has had to create that. Then from the masterplan, the big picture come directives, delegations etc to bring about the construct. A poor design does not end well. 

I'm not arguing a no fault situation bb. I'm guessing it is more a combination of [censored] ups and ill luck that led us to this sorry state. However, I don't believe we can definitively apportion it or pin it down 

I'm hoping that the [censored] ups will be recognized and rectified by those that are well paid to do so. I'm also hoping that all ill luck has been exhausted and the footy gods will shine upon us.

My third hope is that those who claim this year is an aberration ( the recession we had to have so to speak) are correct.

Otherwise we are well and truly up that well known waterway.

 

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2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

see above ;)

Opinion are fine. U have an opinion and u like sharing it.

I think your anlysis lacks some credibility but its not then end of the world.

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3 hours ago, Redleg said:

Not sure what you mean by “triggered” Febes, but as upset as everyone else on DL I am not convinced that Bartlett or Goodwin are to blame for this year. Well actually Goodwin does carry some blame but not sure that the Premiership coach of last year, Simpson , would have done much better given our injuries, poor pre season and some terrible skills shown by the available players. Just a few gimme goals kicked, would have given us a few more wins.

I don’t blame The Coach for players missing gimme goals when they are professional footballers who probably do nothing else than play footy. 

Anyway I enjoy the discussion. 

If our opponents has kicked only 3 more gimme goals, we could be sitting on 2 wins for the season. We have had more narrow wins than narrow losses (10 points either way) 

This argument works both ways but only ever seems to be used to make a club look better than they have actually been. All clubs supporters do it, and it is a shade dishonest.

Clutching at straws.

This year has been putrid.

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7 minutes ago, ding said:

If our opponents has kicked only 3 more gimme goals, we could be sitting on 2 wins for the season. We have had more narrow wins than narrow losses (10 points either way) 

This argument works both ways but only ever seems to be used to make a club look better than they have actually been. All clubs supporters do it, and it is a shade dishonest.

Clutching at straws.

This year has been putrid.

We are pathetically close to being last. Hawks, Blues, Suns. 

Funnily, we could easily still be in finals content. Eagles, Crows, Dogs. 

That said we're closer to last than we have ever been to finals. 

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I have patience for only the first 4 rounds next year.

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9 minutes ago, SPC said:

I have patience for only the first 4 rounds next year.

Yes. I certainly hope the Club is honest with the Members over Summer. 

It certainly wasn’t last year...

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2 hours ago, praha said:

Check out the comments after our loss to Hawthorn last year. I think you'll find most of the people criticizing him were also the most cautious heading into this season. Our worst footy under Goodwin hasn't come when we've been destroyed by injury. It's come when we've been healthy (round 23 2017, vs Hawthorn last year, Prelim). We've been broadly poor this year, but never truly terrible. Not to the extent we were vs Hawthorn or in the Prelim. We had zero tackles in the first 15 minutes in round 23 2017. It's not entirely a coaching issue but it went from being an outlier to a trend.

How can it be a trend when you've picked out just three games from the end of 2017 to now?

I agree with your sentiment that we've been broadly poor this season without necessarily being terrible, but this season is a complete write off for me.  We were doomed before a ball was bounced due to the injuries we suffered and the surgeries that occurred over the pre-season.

How Goodwin goes next year, with hopefully a much cleaner run at it, will tell us all we need to know.  While we've played a few shockers under him since he took over, we've also played some our best football of the last decade (not that hard to achieve I'll admit) under him and I think we need to see how he responds before we write him off.

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6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. I certainly hope the Club is honest with the Members over Summer. 

It certainly wasn’t last year...

that would incur refunds surely 😂😂😂

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15 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

How can it be a trend when you've picked out just three games from the end of 2017 to now?

I agree with your sentiment that we've been broadly poor this season without necessarily being terrible, but this season is a complete write off for me.  We were doomed before a ball was bounced due to the injuries we suffered and the surgeries that occurred over the pre-season.

How Goodwin goes next year, with hopefully a much cleaner run at it, will tell us all we need to know.  While we've played a few shockers under him since he took over, we've also played some our best football of the last decade (not that hard to achieve I'll admit) under him and I think we need to see how he responds before we write him off.

We have been terrible this year. Please do not sugar coat anything. 

The skill level is as bad as i have seen, no system or rhythm  all year, and that is seperate to injuries. 

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3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

How can it be a trend when you've picked out just three games from the end of 2017 to now?

I agree with your sentiment that we've been broadly poor this season without necessarily being terrible, but this season is a complete write off for me.  We were doomed before a ball was bounced due to the injuries we suffered and the surgeries that occurred over the pre-season.

How Goodwin goes next year, with hopefully a much cleaner run at it, will tell us all we need to know.  While we've played a few shockers under him since he took over, we've also played some our best football of the last decade (not that hard to achieve I'll admit) under him and I think we need to see how he responds before we write him off.

Sorry I mean that those games were outliers but it now appears they were a reflection of a current trend. Not that they alone reflect the trend in isolation. I think however that concern after those matches was reasonable (concern of those performances becoming a trend).

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On 7/18/2019 at 2:53 PM, DemonLad5 said:

Something that probably has been said already is that we have too many mids that want the footy 

 

Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Harmes. All great players, but all jump on the ball. None of them hold their space to get the handball 

 

GWS has always had the same issue 

That doesn't stop Geelong's midfield with Kelly, Dangerfield and Selwood. It's how we set up at stoppages that needs to be looked at. 

I believe we're far too attacking and it makes us too easy to coach against. 

We're too attacking with little plan B. 

I hope that in tandem with a tinkered game style and a new midfield coach, we can rectify this issue pretty quickly next year. 

14 hours ago, praha said:

I like your post but this final paragraph epitomises the culture that engulfs the club.

We shouldn't be celebrating high draft picks, a softer draw, or new coaches. These are all reflections of a poor team. Quite literally they are consequences of being poor. We need to move past this. 

I hate the fact that we're looking at draft prospects for pick 2. It's [censored] embarrassing. 

Where is Redleg celebrating these things? He's just saying there's no need for the wrist-slashing that you tend toward.

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On 7/18/2019 at 9:56 AM, Macca said:

Other teams crowd our forward line (constantly) and one way to counteract that is to move the ball into the forward line quickly (which we often do)

The trouble with that is the ball delivered into the forward line line quickly isn't necessarily 'lace-out' so we need our forwards to win their own ball.

Which,  as we have seen all season,  isn't happening.  Our forwards won't play in front,  won't make multiple leads and they often stand around like Brown's Cows.  And our defensive pressure in our forward line is woeful.

With the game we play forward pressure is essential. Tmac isn't a natural at this, Petracca is ok but not as fast as you'd like, Weid is Ok but not imposing or quick enough yet, Garlett and Spargo have been ineffectual, Hunt is Ok but really should be better for all his speed etc etc

It's the missing key to our game this year, the forward pressure to lock the ball in and make the other team panic into coughing the ball up to us to score off a forward half intercept.

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On 7/18/2019 at 2:44 PM, Redleg said:

I wrote a discussion piece looking at several aspects of what has caused our poor season and questioned how much is the Coach’s fault.

You have your own view and that is that it is Goodwin’s fault. 

I respect your  view but don’t share it.

I don't respect it

 

22 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

 

23 hours ago, beelzebub said:

All of what ffs

We are where we are because effectively  thats where we drove the car to.

We caused our own problems.  And someone was in charge directing.

Its not really  that hard. ...

You think we've arrived at the destination but the journey is ongoing. We've hit a bump in the road and you want to torch the car and push it off a cliff

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1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

With the game we play forward pressure is essential. Tmac isn't a natural at this, Petracca is ok but not as fast as you'd like, Weid is Ok but not imposing or quick enough yet, Garlett and Spargo have been ineffectual, Hunt is Ok but really should be better for all his speed etc etc

It's the missing key to our game this year, the forward pressure to lock the ball in and make the other team panic into coughing the ball up to us to score off a forward half intercept.

The pressure from our forwards is one of many areas where we are being let down.

Watch our forwards carefully ... they won't adhere to fundamentals and fail in all areas (as a collective)

Not playing in front

No multiple leads (think Nick Rewoldt)

No making space (not enough anyway)

No real forward line teamwork (they don't work as a unit)

Non existant forward line pressure. 

Kicking at goal is abysmal ( a combination of choking & yips)  Poor kicking actions to boot.

Face it,  there's hardly a redeeming feature to be seen.  An epic fail.  Coach killers.

Petracca is the only shining light ... I solitary forward.  Yet he often remains the focus as many expect A grade according to his draft pick number.

 

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13 hours ago, Kent said:

You are right BB

Wishing  and hoping and praying wont fix it. The footy department are in serious denial. Could not believe they didn't review the prelim. That fact alone says it all. The fact that Goodwin deflected that really makes me wonder what sort of a incompetent coach we have employed. We didnt want to learn from a thrashing in a prelim ?We ignore and carry on in delusion. Well that's what we did and that is why we are where we are SECOND BOTTOM!!!

They didn't review the prelim with the players. I don't think they've ever said the coaches didn't review the game.

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1 minute ago, Macca said:

The pressure from our forwards is one of many areas where we are being let down.

Watch our forwards carefully ... they won't adhere to fundamentals and fail in all areas (as a collective)

Not playing in front

No multiple leads (think Nick Rewoldt)

No making space (not enough anyway)

No real forward line teamwork (they don't work as a unit)

Non existant forward line pressure. 

Kicking at goal is abysmal ( a combination of choking & yips)  Poor kicking actions to boot.

Face it,  there's hardly a redeeming feature to be seen.  An epic fail.  Coach killers.

Petracca is the only shining light ... I solitary forward.  Yet he often remains the focus as many expect A grade according to his draft pick number.

 

This happens all over the ground not just in the forward line. Drives me berserk seeing players do half hearted leads, or worse no leads at all which then doesn't open up space for players behind them to lead into. Makes it so easy to defend as well because the ball invariably gets kicked on top of their heads so the defender can jump over the top to spoil or intercept.

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