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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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Just now, rjay said:

If you look back 'Macca' you will understand that I am seeing the picture you're talking about.

I will add to that, our tall forwards are virtually non existent.

Our problem is personnel, planning and coaching.

I don't think it's terminal but will need quite a bit of work to fix.

The first step is recognition of the problem and the problem is not just injuries...

Say it all the time then rjay ... each time you talk about the gameplan & coaching make sure you mention our hopeless forward line

By doing that you present a more balanced argument ... most of the time you look like you are just blaming Goodwin and the game plan.  Over and over again.

Game plans are overated anyway ... without talent,  no game plan can work.

And we lack talent ... more so in the forward line.  And it's the worst I've seen.  By a stretch.  It really is that bad and I'm surprised that it's not the main focus on our ills.

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20 minutes ago, binman said:

I respectfully say adios to this thread. It's not good for my mental health.

I'm putting in on ignore and leaving it to the handful of brave souls (you know who you are) to fight the good fight against black and white thinking, reinventing history, ignoring facts that don't fit a preferred narrative (eg we haven't adjusted our game plan, totally ignoring the fact we have) and confusing symptom with cause. All to arrive at the conclusion Goody is the problem. 

It's ok to present an argument and then agree to disagree with those who have a different view.

So stick around BM ... many here are talking through their frustration and that's how fans are.  The hip-pocket factor.

Prior to the season many were expecting finals as a matter of course.  Again,  that's how fans think and you won't change it.

So with disappointment comes frustration and then the blame game.  My expectations are always tempered so would rather just look at the form of the players as the season progresses.  Make the appropriate changes as a result.

And there is no doubt that for various reasons we have a numerous amount of players who are down on form.  Collectively we've been poor thus the frustration

Others here might see you as being too wedded to the off-season surgeries and interrupted pre-seasons.  But those who are fit continue to make the same fundamental errors on a constant basis ... not playing in front,  no gut running,  poor conversion rates,  poor disposal levels, no 2 way running,  poor shepherding,  questionable game plan,  average coaching etc etc etc

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2 minutes ago, Macca said:

It's ok to present an argument and then agree to disagree with those who have a different view.

So stick around BM ... many here are talking through their frustration and that's how fans are.  The hip-pocket factor.

Prior to the season many were expecting finals as a matter of course.  Again,  that's how fans think and you won't change it.

So with disappointment comes frustration and then the blame game.  My expectations are always tempered so would rather just look at the form of the players as the season progresses.  Make the appropriate changes as a result.

And there is no doubt that for various reasons we have a numerous amount of players who are down on form.  Collectively we've been poor thus the frustration

Others here might see you as being too wedded to the off-season surgeries and interrupted pre-seasons.  But those who are fit continue to make the same fundamental errors on a constant basis ... not playing in front,  no gut running,  poor conversion rates,  poor disposal levels, no 2 way running,  poor shepherding,  questionable game plan,  average coaching etc etc etc

excellent post.

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37 minutes ago, binman said:

All to arrive at the conclusion Goody is the problem. 

No Goody is not the problem.

This is the problem I have...we have a suite of problems.

Some seem to use injury as the get out clause, it is part of the problem.

Goody is also not the get out clause but he must take some responsibility as the senior coach. Not a lot has changed since the Prelim so he must be brought to account.

Macca is going on about our forward line. I thought it was folly that we expected Tommy to hold us up this year and that's proven correct, but apart from Trac we really have no one. It is a problem but again not the only one.

The defence was very average without May and Lever and now it's looking ok...injury there but also questions on the fitness dept...

These are just some of the problems

...and these are some of the solutions as I see them.

I would like to see a revamped FD and expect that's what we will get.

I hope we're on the phone to Richo and I also hope Goody learns a lot from this year...there is a disconnect somewhere.

I would also hope the draft trade period addresses some of our personnel issues.

Trade in one or two quick small/medium forwards, look at some midfield run...

A KPF would be good but I expect we might have to pray Tommy gets his mojo back, Weid comes on big time and we set up with far better structure.

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18 minutes ago, Macca said:

It's ok to present an argument and then agree to disagree with those who have a different view.

So stick around BM ... many here are talking through their frustration and that's how fans are.  The hip-pocket factor.

Prior to the season many were expecting finals as a matter of course.  Again,  that's how fans think and you won't change it.

So with disappointment comes frustration and then the blame game.  My expectations are always tempered so would rather just look at the form of the players as the season progresses.  Make the appropriate changes as a result.

And there is no doubt that for various reasons we have a numerous amount of players who are down on form.  Collectively we've been poor thus the frustration

Others here might see you as being too wedded to the off-season surgeries and interrupted pre-seasons.  But those who are fit continue to make the same fundamental errors on a constant basis ... not playing in front,  no gut running,  poor conversion rates,  poor disposal levels, no 2 way running,  poor shepherding,  questionable game plan,  average coaching etc etc etc

we would have to be the only team in the history of the game to play finals, have off season surgeries, a shorter preseason, and have this impact performance so significantly that it sees us on the verge of a bottom 2 finish. 

This has Carlton 2002 written all over it.

The only thing that gives me hope is the fact that Richmond were actually garbage in 2016 with 8 wins and 79% percentage with a few 100 point losses. And we all know how they bounced back. But they had a mini rebuild in the offseason. 

Goodwin has got to make tough calls on Lewis and Jordon, consider the roles of Viney and Brayshaw, and completely redevelop his gameplan. 

The next 12 months is going to be the most challenging of his 20+ years in the AFL.

In the words of Ari Gold, "I just don't see it happening."

 

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4 hours ago, binman said:

Rubbish. We have the same players as we did last year who did exactly what you are saying - pressure  lock the ball in and convert. We were the highest scoring team last year. How do you think that happened. By magic?

Last year we had jeffy (before being dropped), then spargo, hannan, vdb and melk all providing forward half pressure. And doing that job super well. The scoreboard does not lie. Again over 23 rounds we were the highest scoring team in the AFL. 

What's changed? Jeffy started and ends the season injured. Spargo has been way out of form. Hannan had a long term injury and has got nowhere near his best since coming back. Vdb has not played a game because of injury and arguably our most important forward melk has barely played a game because of injury (and incredibly is still has more goal assists than anyone bar trac).

Meanwhile bedford and swallow who were drafted for small forward pressure roles are not ready yet., meaning we are playing a kid who a fee weeks ago was playing under 18s footy and another who was loading trucks six months ago.

These are plain facts. Fell free to ignore them but doing so renders your argument we don't have the players for our game style redundant.

The plain facts are that at Half Time in the Preliminary Final we were 0 Goals, with no juice left in the tank, out played and out coached. 

The same Gameplan has been used in 2019 and we are17th  our 4th Quarters have been shocking

They are the plain facts. 

Goodwin has got to change his strategies and attitudes, otherwise he will be out the side door next year. 

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38 minutes ago, praha said:

In the words of Ari Gold, "I just don't see it happening."

 

An Entourage ref the best thing about this thread so far

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23 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

An Entourage ref the best thing about this thread so far

Hug it out: we are in this together!

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1 hour ago, binman said:

I respectfully say adios to this thread. It's not good for my mental health.

I'm putting in on ignore and leaving it to the handful of brave souls (you know who you are) to fight the good fight against black and white thinking, reinventing history, ignoring facts that don't fit a preferred narrative (eg we haven't adjusted our game plan, totally ignoring the fact we have) and confusing symptom with cause. All to arrive at the conclusion Goody is the problem. 

Goody is very much part of the problem...a very big part. he is not alone...That you  are not prepared to see the blinding obvious is well...your prerogative Bin. 

I have for a long time banged on that much of our malaise if by design. With that design and the outcome of events to that design have come ramifications.  That we are where we are cant really be put down to the players so  much as how they are instructed to play and coached to do so. Only one dept is responsible for that. One in particular for the style and nature of gameplan.

In the end we all just want us to play well, win games and put more silverware in the cupboard. We are getting  no closer to this.

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1 hour ago, rjay said:

A KPF would be good but I expect we might have to pray Tommy gets his mojo back, Weid comes on big time and we set up with far better structure.

We need 2 KPF's ... An extra 1 just in case the first one isn't great.

In the unlikely event that we end up with 4 top key forwards trade out 1 of them

Do we draft 1 and trade for 1? 

That should be the focus ... having an abundance of NQR midfielders and inbetweeners serves no real purpose.

And we need a couple of small forwards as well ... maybe even 3 to find 1 or 2. 

Unless we trade for absolute proven forward talent it becomes a percentage play

T-Mac,  Melk & Trac being the mainstays but 2 of those 3 have injury concerns so we need cover for them as well.

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As for the injuries ... if the club had a greater depth of real talent we can cover for those injuries. 

But our recruiting from the tail end of the Daniher era through to the start of the Roos era was abysmal.  And we're still paying a price now.

And it is the clubs fault that we don't have greater talent depth,  no one else's.

So we can't use injuries as a reason for our failings.  And every club has their fair share of injuries so it's not just us. 

We went into the season with 2 questionable key forwards ... neither T-Mac nor Weideman are proven,  ridgy-didge key forwards.  Not to be relied on anyway.  Both fail to deliver this season and hey presto,  we're a cellar dweller again. 

And our small forwards ain't much chop either.  On top of all that our midfielders don't kick enough goals and are constantly looking at giving the ball off.  Plus,  we choke in front of goal.  A recipe for disaster and we wrote the script.

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“We’ve just learnt over that last 48 hours that he’s now under pressure” - David King on Simon Goodwin, AFL 360 tonight.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

“We’ve just learnt over that last 48 hours that he’s now under pressure” - David King on Simon Goodwin, AFL 360 tonight.

 

Can't hide from the facts. Was always building. The more these damning stats present themselves, the more the pressure builds.

Interesting take from Robbo, that the club is "talking confidently". Goodwin talks like a coach of a team in the midst of a slump. King was fairly brutal in his assessment. 

I expect a quick turnaround, and for the club to be in a contending position in 12 months time. Otherwise, get rid of him before the rot truly sets in. This year isn't just poor. We are quite literally setting new records for ineptness. Literally, actual records for ineptness.

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12 minutes ago, praha said:

Can't hide from the facts. Was always building. The more these damning stats present themselves, the more the pressure builds.

Interesting take from Robbo, that the club is "talking confidently". Goodwin talks like a coach of a team in the midst of a slump. King was fairly brutal in his assessment. 

I expect a quick turnaround, and for the club to be in a contending position in 12 months time. Otherwise, get rid of him before the rot truly sets in. This year isn't just poor. We are quite literally setting new records for ineptness. Literally, actual records for ineptness.

Yes Goodwin is going to turn this around quickly or he won’t at all. There will be no need to wait for 2-3 years. 

The lack of team cohesion is like nothing i have seen before, from players who do have talent. 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/16/2019 at 9:26 PM, old dee said:

If we are not at least around eighth place at the break in 2020 he will not see out the year.

Yeah he will

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
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Goodwin

Ever been such  an  oxymoron 

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11 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Bray -> Trac. Missed kick by 5m, Trac in space

Trac -> Tom. Kick to def adv, strong mark

Melk -> Weid. shanked set shot, no def spoil

Harmes-> Melk. kick to def adv, def slips over

Selwood slips -> Viney kicks straight to def, ball bobbles Trac -> Jones -> goal

Henderson slips -> Hannan goal

Omac the ol' Reverse Falcon spoil.

I'm on team Goodwin, but I have to admit, it's amazing how when you're winning things just all seem to work out in your favour, ball bounces the right way, opposition panics, our mistakes get covered up.

Momentum, flow, call it what you will it's intangible and it's real. Especially in sport.

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9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah he will

One thing is certain Dr one of us is correct.

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22 hours ago, Macca said:

Say it all the time then rjay ... each time you talk about the gameplan & coaching make sure you mention our hopeless forward line

By doing that you present a more balanced argument ... most of the time you look like you are just blaming Goodwin and the game plan.  Over and over again.

Game plans are overated anyway ... without talent,  no game plan can work.

And we lack talent ... more so in the forward line.  And it's the worst I've seen.  By a stretch.  It really is that bad and I'm surprised that it's not the main focus on our ills.

* GODZILLA BUMP

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18 hours ago, Macca said:

As for the injuries ... if the club had a greater depth of real talent we can cover for those injuries. 

But our recruiting from the tail end of the Daniher era through to the start of the Roos era was abysmal.  And we're still paying a price now.

And it is the clubs fault that we don't have greater talent depth,  no one else's.

So we can't use injuries as a reason for our failings.  And every club has their fair share of injuries so it's not just us. 

We went into the season with 2 questionable key forwards ... neither T-Mac nor Weideman are proven,  ridgy-didge key forwards.  Not to be relied on anyway.  Both fail to deliver this season and hey presto,  we're a cellar dweller again. 

And our small forwards ain't much chop either.  On top of all that our midfielders don't kick enough goals and are constantly looking at giving the ball off.  Plus,  we choke in front of goal.  A recipe for disaster and we wrote the script.

*GOZILLA BUMP II

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Posted (edited)

Other teams crowd our forward line (constantly) and one way to counteract that is to move the ball into the forward line quickly (which we often do)

The trouble with that is the ball delivered into the forward line line quickly isn't necessarily 'lace-out' so we need our forwards to win their own ball.

Which,  as we have seen all season,  isn't happening.  Our forwards won't play in front,  won't make multiple leads and they often stand around like Brown's Cows.  And our defensive pressure in our forward line is woeful.

Edited by Macca
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1 hour ago, Macca said:

Other teams crowd our forward line (constantly) and one way to counteract that is to move the ball into the forward line quickly (which we often do)

The trouble with that is the ball delivered into the forward line line quickly isn't necessarily 'lace-out' so we need our forwards to win their own ball.

Which,  as we have seen all season,  isn't happening.  Our forwards won't play in front,  won't make multiple leads and they often stand around like Brown's Cows.  And our defensive pressure in our forward line is woeful.

Not much to like there Dr. As our results show.

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50 minutes ago, old dee said:

Not much to like there Dr. As our results show.

Dr Macca ... doesn't quite work old dee ha ha

An influx of talent is always the fix though ... as always,  we're always building or at least you'd like to think that we're always building

The acquisition of May & Lever thus making Frost & Oscar the back ups is the pointer.  It's my belief that we have to do the same thing in the forward line.  And you find a way to do it.

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I think the 6,6,6, has exposed us greatly & because we only have the 1 style game plan we are very predictable. 

Who's responsibility is it to make the appropriate adjustments?

Roosey handed us a ready made finals team & a list that had depth, flexibility & grunt. We've gone backwards & there doesn't seem to be any notable changes to our game plan.

I'm concerned & its a long way back from here.

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