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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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1 minute ago, Engorged Onion said:

Absolutely fine your standpoint also @Sorry kids in reference to gameplan/game day strategy. I think it's not working due to injuries/rehab etc etc..

It's interesting, I used to be anti Goodwin because of his link to Essendon - I seem to have softened in that last 2-3 years. 

I just disagree that because of his link, that you (read anyone) can be so black and white, and think that people can't evolve, change ethic, grow (whatever you wish to call it)... as in, he and anyone within Essendon at the time, should under no circumstances be employed in the AFL.

Fair enough. We all get passionate far more so than we wish because of our lack of success. I respect anyone on here for being concerned enough to care. So lets move on.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Praha...prior to the season's commencement the industry touted us as top 4. Indeed not that we might be...that we ought to be and if not...well..

If we finish last or next to ??  I'd have to say anything below the top 8 is an abject failure...bottom four ought to invoke Seppuku.

I know many have a different view, but i wouldnt be me without my own  ( lol ). On the matter of tenure.  Goodwin has been at the club since late 2014. His 15 season was to watch and observe and be a sponge. 16 he was handed day game duties. 17 he goes solo.

This is effectively his 4th year running the game for us......and we're going backwards. Yes there are reasons...but at the risk of the grammar gestapo arresting me there are reasons for those reasons and they all come out of the FD/coaching box.

Agree mate but he's not going this year. Too many variables causing the downdall and so the club will give him 2020 to redeem. As I've mentioned in past threads I think he'd have until mid-2020 to turn things around.

I'm not a huge fan of Goodwin and certainly lean towards him not being all that good of a coach. I have thought this way since our Hawthorn loss last year. And to a lesser extent our Saints, Cats, and Prelim losses. I felt his coaching on those days in particular was pulled apart. That said I believe in stability and believe we've had anything but that this year from both a coaching and team perspective. So, I will give him the benefit of the doubt over the pre season and into 2020. That will be deep into his 4th full year of coaching.

Further to this though, if we finish bottom 2 I think it will be very difficult for him to recover from that. I don't believe the variables this year are so significant that we're suddenly the worst or thereabouts team in the comp. We should still be battling for a finals spot, and we're embarrassingly far off the pace for a number of reasons. I think his coaching is far down that list of reasons, which is why I'm giving him a clean slate until this time next year.

Edited by praha
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Sorry kids said:

Finally due diligence,  Assistant at Essendon during drug scandal, say no more.

This line of argument is absolute BS, he wasn't in charge of the program or have any say in it. Other clubs had done just as bad as the Bombers but weren't stupid enough to get caught. Hird, Thompson, Dank and Robinson were the ones running it, he was an assistant at the time but shouldn't be tarred because of it. And yeah I know he was named as having taken some supplements, supplements that are not illegal or against the rules for a non-playing participant to take. So I think you should really get over it, it's a rubbish line of argument.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
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5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This line of argument is absolute BS, he wasn't in charge of the program or have any say in it. Other clubs had done just as bad as the Bombers but weren't stupid enough to get caught. Hird, Thompson, Dank and Robinson were the ones running it, he was an assistant at the time but shouldn't be tarred because of it. And yeah I know he was named as having taken some supplements, supplements that are not illegal or against the rules for a non-playing participant to take. So I think you should really get over it, it's a rubbish line of argument.

Fortunately, I do not get my moral compass as to Senior Coaching suitability here. 

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On 7/5/2019 at 12:46 PM, Smokey said:

Wouldn't it be nice if Goodwin's position was structured similarly to IT service delivery; 

 

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We sealed our position with Goodwin by renewing his contract before this season even started. We are stuck with him for better or worse till at least the end of 2021. We simply cannot afford to pay him out before then. IMO our only early out would be if the crows wanted to get him home before that time. 

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Can't sack a coach after one bad season.  Coaches improve with time and Goodwin will learn a lot from this season. 

Mick Malhouse one said "You haven't coached until you've coached a bottom side"

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46 minutes ago, old dee said:

We sealed our position with Goodwin by renewing his contract before this season even started. We are stuck with him for better or worse till at least the end of 2021. We simply cannot afford to pay him out before then. IMO our only early out would be if the crows wanted to get him home before that time. 

If we are still a mess next year and Sponsors start pulling out, Goodwin will be gone. 

The Blowtorch has already started...

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38 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If we are still a mess next year and Sponsors start pulling out, Goodwin will be gone. 

The Blowtorch has already started...

Your constant proclamations make me giggle...

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6 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Your constant proclamations make me giggle...

I don’t find this year funny at all. 

But each to their own....

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19 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Your constant proclamations make me giggle...

In what industry anywhere in the world does a complete shuffling of management during a measurable period -- in this case, coaches during the season -- not equate to a blowtorch? 20+ years in the corporate world working in 3 different companies, I've NEVER seen a shuffling in the middle of a financial quarter.

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4 minutes ago, praha said:

In what industry anywhere in the world does a complete shuffling of management during a measurable period -- in this case, coaches during the season -- not equate to a blowtorch? 20+ years in the corporate world working in 3 different companies, I've NEVER seen a shuffling in the middle of a financial quarter.

Im not disputing that managerial positions are on the line, of course they are, it's football.  For mine, the blowtorch is permanently on the coach after season one. 

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On 7/4/2019 at 4:54 PM, beelzebub said:

Its one sided ....just like our "Success"  It is what it is...

Im not about to say  go you Good Goodwin ) other than out the door ) as I simply dont rate him. Some suggest all is well if he sees the error of his ways.  The club isnt about Goodwin...its about the jumper, the actual success of the team etc. Goodwin, Mahoney, Mccartney..etc etc are all just paid servants of the club. Win or lose at the moment they still rake it in. Id be happy to see them off I truly would.  Theyve had their shot..it's failed. Go!!

If you want to change an outcome ( and speaking of sanity ..as Einstein suggests you have to change the input ) then we need a radical shift.  The players are only trying to implement a game-plan /style/brand call it what you will thats handed to them by the 'Brains Trust "

It's my concerted opinion that they are invariably not only played in a fashion that is unsustainable and only marginally worthy of any sane implementation at best  but that the whole tenet of our game is counter intuitive to about 90% of players.

How does anyone know of success ??  A good question. But first you must accept that many of us have lives/work/ businesses/interests away from football. I.e  Football, or the supporting of such ,  does not define our individual abilities.  I like many here have managed quite ok in life. If id applied the methods of this club to my private life Id be bankrupt. It's because I'm not, like many others, that there is some cause to think that those who can see with clarity in things non football might bring to bear some of their ideas  to it.

Ive spent most of my working life in two areas....  IT..Systems and Networks....and in Building.   Both fields of endeavour are built upon ( npi ) a good working knowledge and the implementation of sound and workable designs.  If it's stuffed on the drawing board it is never going to fly  off of it !!.  Here  I go back to my , all but signature concern; we lose by design. The Architects are bereft of a good design. Our game falls over..and over ...and over.

So yes it's a one sided view. I like things that don't fall over. That's been my training. Unless we change out tack we will chase our tails and repeat, repeat, repeat.   If the same people are in charge I can see NO reason why they as a group are about to change wholesale their approach. If they were to then surely it would have happened by now.

 

I respect this is a football forum and opinions need to be expressed.

But just remember once in a while when you're arguing your position you don't know anything about professional sport and how hard I might actually be. 

Plus there are multiple employment and leadership and professional issues to be considered. 

Just because you read Demonland and watch the news doesn't mean you're informed.

I have no issue in you sharing BB but opinions and facts are 2 different things

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14 minutes ago, Ugottobekidding said:

He is the first coach in 10 years to win a final.

So? Winning finals is part of the job.

Frawley was the first coach at Richmond to win a flag in 7 years. Grant Thomas' Saints grossly underperformed despite playing finals.

Goodwin has struggled this year. He has about 12 months to turn it around. Zero chance he's still coach if we're anything below 6-6 after 12 rounds next year  

 

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He is the first coach in 10 ye

1 minute ago, praha said:

So? Winning finals is part of the job.

Frawley was the first coach at Richmond to win a flag in 7 years. Grant Thomas' Saints grossly underperformed despite playing finals.

Goodwin has struggled this year. He has about 12 months to turn it around. Zero chance he's still coach if we're anything below 6-6 after 12 rounds next year  

 

Don't think Frawley ever won a premiership

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46 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

I respect this is a football forum and opinions need to be expressed.

But just remember once in a while when you're arguing your position you don't know anything about professional sport and how hard I might actually be. 

Plus there are multiple employment and leadership and professional issues to be considered. 

Just because you read Demonland and watch the news doesn't mean you're informed.

I have no issue in you sharing BB but opinions and facts are 2 different things

I think he’s right. The game plan is no good. We’ve lost far too many games this year and have not changed the game plan sufficiently to start winning. I doubt that the current coaching team has the ability to fix what is currently wrong on field. Going from a preliminary final to bottom of the ladder in 14 games is absolutely disastrous and disgraceful and is a direct reflection on the ability of the coaches and players to win games of football together as a team. Change is clearly needed. It doesn’t seem to be happening at the coaching level. This could be stubborn pride or lack of ability. I suspect more of the latter with a smattering of the former.

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1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Im not disputing that managerial positions are on the line, of course they are, it's football.  For mine, the blowtorch is permanently on the coach after season one. 

He must get very burnt.

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3 hours ago, one_demon said:

Can't sack a coach after one bad season.  Coaches improve with time and Goodwin will learn a lot from this season. 

Mick Malhouse one said "You haven't coached until you've coached a bottom side"

Well he will have that qualification in place at the end of the year.

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2 hours ago, praha said:

So? Winning finals is part of the job.

Frawley was the first coach at Richmond to win a flag in 7 years. Grant Thomas' Saints grossly underperformed despite playing finals.

Goodwin has struggled this year. He has about 12 months to turn it around. Zero chance he's still coach if we're anything below 6-6 after 12 rounds next year  

 

Zero chance he gets sacked midseason next year.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Zero chance he gets sacked midseason next year.

Correct but the writing could be on the wall Dr.

Another year like 2019 he will be dead in the water.

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On 7/4/2019 at 4:54 PM, beelzebub said:

Ive spent most of my working life in two areas....  IT..Systems and Networks....and in Building.   Both fields of endeavour are built upon ( npi ) a good working knowledge and the implementation of sound and workable designs.  If it's stuffed on the drawing board it is never going to fly  off of it !!.  Here  I go back to my , all but signature concern; we lose by design. The Architects are bereft of a good design. Our game falls over..and over ...and over.

As someone who also works in this field I always come back to quote from Frank Lloyd Wright:

”You can use an eraser at the drafting table, or a sledgehammer on the construction site.” 

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I have faith in Goodwin and believe he deserves the be judged on next season. Unless Clarkson was available, then I’d cut him for Clarkson. 

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One thing I think the Club should consider with Goodwin from my reading of his background.  It appears he has had little interest in education, he was a super talented sportsman, cricket and football and playing senior footy at a young age when most of us are still learning in formal education and the workplace. I would set out a plan that should include some touring of other world sporting clubs, game strategies and innovations. I am a critic of Goodwins but fully support him having all the tools available while he remains in charge. If as some here believe that  he is but limited in game strategies and stubbornness the club should help him overcome those traits. I would think personal PD would be part of any contract extension these days in professional sport.  

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