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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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Anyone who says they definitively know any professional elite level sport coach will remain until a certain period of time or absolutely will see out their contract has not followed much elite level professional sport in their life. 

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10 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Port, Geelong and Richmond are good examples in the last 20 years of why persisting with a plan for as long as possible is rewarded.

what?

Port have won one premiership in 22 years, Dump Road one in 39 years and Geelong have been an unmitigated disaster in finals since Scott coached Thompson's third premiership seven years ago. And it's working well for the Aints right now . . . sticking with no-clue Richo. 

Every one of those teams are doing better than the MFC, much better. I'll take a flag every 22 years.

On Geelong, here we are again and they're looking ominous.

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8 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Anyone who says they definitively know any professional elite level sport coach will remain until a certain period of time or absolutely will see out their contract has not followed much elite level professional sport in their life. 

In your mind you seem to know everything

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10 hours ago, Macca said:

Technical issues aside,  I reckon Goodwin can turn things around.  If not,  he's in trouble.  He won't be going anywhere this season though.  He needs some new assistants together with some fresh ideas from those new assistants. 

And it isn't a stretch for the club to have a mid-season review and go in a somewhat different direction as of our next game.  Change things up.  FD,  leadership group & senior players all involved. 

We've got nothing to lose as we won't be playing finals this season.  Personally,  I reckon we need to win as many games as possible this season rather than aiming for a top end draft pick (and therefore tank the season)

Besides which,  we can trade ourselves into a better position in the draft if we have a player or players in mind. 

10 wins is still possible but we certainly need to get a hurry on DJ.  8 wins offers some hope as well but a 16 or 17 loss season would be disastrous for the club. 

There appears little chance that this mob will win another game let alone 8 the way they are going

How   would the club react to that possible scenario?

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We have far greater issues with the playing list rather than the coach.  I'd also argue that Goodwin needs better assistants.

The odd bit is that Goodwin gets questioned far more than Bailey or Neeld ever did yet Goodwin's overall win/loss record is miles better.  And the quintessential measurement in footy is the win/loss ratio.

Goodwin is by no means coaching well but he's not that bad either ... the skills of the players are lacking to an alarming degree so in many ways it wouldn't matter who was coaching the team right now.

We need a big lift right across the board.  It is not just the coach and it is not just the players either.  Pert needs to step in with regards to the KPI's of the FD.  As CEO,  the buck also stops with him. 

And I'm not sure that any of the assistant coaches are adding any substance either.  Do any of them have any expertise with regards to the skills of the game and if so,  do they know how to pass those skills on? 

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21 minutes ago, Kent said:

There appears little chance that this mob will win another game let alone 8 the way they are going

How   would the club react to that possible scenario?

We will win more games ... a total of 7 or 8 is my bet but we might get to 9 or 10 wins

Edited by Macca
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1 minute ago, Macca said:

We will win more games ... 7 or 8 is my bet but we might get to 9 or 10 wins

Gees Macca I hope you are right. But on what I saw at the G yesterday it is highly unlikely.

But you never know I went along yesterday believing we were a chance.

The first 5 minutes told me that we were going to be done as we set up and played like we have all year and it just hasn't worked.

Maybe if the game plan was tweaked, we may be able to kick scores to win. If not it appears we are in for a bottom four finish.

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1 minute ago, Kent said:

Maybe if the game plan was tweaked

That's the key 'Kent'...at the moment our opponents know what they are going to get and it's easy to play us.

Tweak the plan, we change that dynamic and get back in the game.

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11 minutes ago, rjay said:

That's the key 'Kent'...at the moment our opponents know what they are going to get and it's easy to play us.

Tweak the plan, we change that dynamic and get back in the game.

The plan to be tweaked yes rjay but the actual skills of the players is not even VFL level

It's deplorable to watch.  We can get the ball alright but after that it's a mess.

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15 minutes ago, Macca said:

The plan to be tweaked yes rjay but the actual skills of the players is not even VFL level

It's deplorable to watch.  We can get the ball alright but after that it's a mess.

It's rally bad 'Macca'...

I can only hope that if we get a bit more spread and open up the forward half we might find better options and hit more targets.

We're playing an old brand and it doesn't work.

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2 minutes ago, rjay said:

It's rally bad 'Macca'...

I can only hope that if we get a bit more spread and open up the forward half we might find better options and hit more targets.

We're playing an old brand and it doesn't work.

Yep ...and  if you're not playing keepings-off (at speed) you're out of the game.

We were nowhere near this bad last year although we did see the signs last year (a fit of the fumbles,  shocking conversion (Sydney game round 21) etc etc)

It is as if we didn't do any skills training in ths off-season.  Quite frankly,  it is unacceptable for a so-called professional outfit.

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34 minutes ago, Macca said:

The plan to be tweaked yes rjay but the actual skills of the players is not even VFL level

It's deplorable to watch.  We can get the ball alright but after that it's a mess.

Is the gameplan the key in the sense that we promote speed and play on at the expense of skills. May need to look at the balance.

Players at AFL level are skilled so it's not as though we don't have them but we aren't executing at the required level.

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This well controlled list/game management scenario is playing out a treat in regard of a quick dip, high draft pick and some trades into flag window from 2020.

Worry not, this is the tank well managed dip/rebuild we needed.

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5 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Is the gameplan the key in the sense that we promote speed and play on at the expense of skills. May need to look at the balance.

Players at AFL level are skilled so it's not as though we don't have them but we aren't executing at the required level.

We often go 'wide' as well DJ and that is the fault of those disposing of the ball,  those making the leads and the coaching.

On the odd occasion where we go sideways or backwards (to reset) we then often then repeat the process and go wide.

And a lot of our forwards aren't 'Naturals' either ... not sure how you fix that other than to recruit natural forwards. 

Our key forwards need to play in front and take contested marks - that isn't happening either. 

Taking a contested mark in the forward line is hard work these days but we don't work hard for those contested marks.

'Work For One' should be the catch-cry.

But we need a rebuild to the playing stocks, lets face it.  A lot on our list aren't going to get much better and we have holes to fill anyway.

Our forward line has been dysfunctional all season so there's a starting point.

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1 hour ago, Superunknown said:

Every one of those teams are doing better than the MFC, much better. I'll take a flag every 22 years.

On Geelong, here we are again and they're looking ominous.

Agree Super . . . Every one of those teams are doing better than the MFC, much better.

And doesn't that say a lot about the Demons when we can say that St Kilda, with one premiership in 123 years, is doing a lot better than us?

And on Geelong . . .  they have look ominous (or at least pretty good) every year for the last seven years under Scott after round 11. 'Nuff said.

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Will say that with everything thats gone down this year Goodwin in my eyes still the right man for the job and will bring us sustain success. 

Why i have confidence is that the teams we have lost too  we've had more inside 50s, won the clearences and and contested possessions.

The only issue this year is obviously we've had no continuity starting from the pre season right until now with all our injuries. Our mid to forward connection has been poor also.

Get those things right next year, add in a top 5 pick, smart recruiting over the draft, everyone back fully fit come day 1 of pre season and i am backing us to push for top 4 next year.

Lets also put things in perspective. We are still relatively young in terms of games experience. Also we are still relying on 22-23 year olds with 60 to 80 games of experience. Next year we'll have a few who will hit that 100 game mark and really start to flourish.

Also condolences to the goodwin family..

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/the-death-of-melbourne-coach-simon-goodwins-fatherinlaw-among-demons-year-of-woe/news-story/7e37078408873e2784208e80b5a1daf1?fbclid=IwAR1mC4LiUMyiLaTtFf5g-cDEc0gtYM2wUUMZcPWwBEAl20dHo-QnUnpwWto

Edited by dazzledavey36
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9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Will say that with everything thats gone down this year Goodwin in my eyes still the right man for the job and will bring us sustain success. 

Why i have confidence is that the teams we have lost too  we've had more inside 50s, won the clearences and and contested possessions.

The only issue this year is obviously we've had no continuity starting from the pre season right until now with all our injuries. Our mid to forward connection has been ppor also.

Get those things right next year, add in a top 5 pick, smart recruiting over the draft, everyone back fully fit come day 1 of pre season and i am backing us to push for top 4 next year.

Lets also put things in perspective. We are still relatively young in terms of games experience. Also. We are still relying on 22-23 year olds with 60 to 80 games of experience. Next year we'll have a few who will hit that 100 game mark and really start to flourish.

Also condolences to the goodwin family..

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/the-death-of-melbourne-coach-simon-goodwins-fatherinlaw-among-demons-year-of-woe/news-story/7e37078408873e2784208e80b5a1daf1?fbclid=IwAR1mC4LiUMyiLaTtFf5g-cDEc0gtYM2wUUMZcPWwBEAl20dHo-QnUnpwWto

we've had more inside 50s, won the clearances and and contested possessions.

“If your experiment needs a statistician, you need a better experiment.” 

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1 minute ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

we've had more inside 50s, won the clearances and and contested possessions.

“If your experiment needs a statistician, you need a better experiment.” 

But its fact. 

Whats letting us down is our mid to forward connection and ability to score. We are generating enough inside 50s, yet somehow our ball use going forward is the worst i have seen since the Neeld years.

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They're not fit enough.

Salem has never been elite fit. His kick around the corner that went straight to Pendlebury then straight back in for a goal wouldn't have happened if he was fitter. It was lazy football. When you aren't fit you make bad decisions, you give up easier. Half Collingwoods team are in there because they are fit enough. Look at a bloke like Greenwood

No-one could go with Hoskin-Elliot yesterday. 

Clarry and Max are fit and keep going all day.

Get rid of Misson now and get in a good conditioning and fitness squad and I'm sure it will all turn around.

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31 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

But its fact. 

Whats letting us down is our mid to forward connection and ability to score. We are generating enough inside 50s, yet somehow our ball use going forward is the worst i have seen since the Neeld years.

But its fact. 

“The truth is more important than the facts.” 

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The evidence is slowly mounting that Goodwin is not the right guy, but the ill-advised contract extension all but ensures that he will be here for 2020 and most likely 2021 as well.

That being the case, the club needs to ensure that Goodwin is supported as much as possible by having quality assistants and mentors around him. A major clean out of the football department, particularly the assistant coaches, is essential.

Beyond that I'd be encouraging him to spend a few months away from the football club over the pre season, because he doesn't seem to be handling the pressure particularly well at present.

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It has been a perfect storm this year in terms of what could go wrong has gone wrong. 

Starting with all the post season surgeries ( though I do wonder if they might have held off on some) and interrupted pre seasons. Both compounded by in season injuries.

And we have been unable to get any continuity week to week.

Again this week, even with some of our better players back we have a late out (and don't bring in a like for like player), then lose frost early (forcing fritter back) and in the same incident Salem off and then struggling. That was after salem being a late out against the crows and i'm i pretty sure it has happened on other occasions too.

All of that has to be factored in when we seeing how goody is going. It also had to be factored into any assessment of his game plan.

On the latter point any game plan would look redundant if you turn the ball over as often as we do and enter inside 50 so appallingly, where we combine directly turning the ball over and kicking it to our forwards disadvantage or over their head all together.

On our rubbish  kicking perhaps it  is partly a function of the pre season issues and of course with better players back it will improve. And there is the fact that we have very few really good kicks. But even with all that what is happening? They ate just woeful st the moment. 

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Watching Goodwins press conferences and his demeanor I just dont think he is handling the pressure at the moment.

He needs better support and better quality line coaches maybe a better football manager. If he doesn"t get it, his future looks grim in my opinion.

It looks to me that there is a greater  possibility  he will retire rather than be sacked  at some point over his contract term. Time will tell

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2 hours ago, Macca said:

The plan to be tweaked yes rjay but the actual skills of the players is not even VFL level

It's deplorable to watch.  We can get the ball alright but after that it's a mess.

We are the only team that cannot kick-mark-kick-mark, because our foot skills are sub VFL level.  Petracca can hit a bullseye from 55, but can't hit a barn from 15 metres out.  We have no choice but to play kamakaze manic 5th gear footy.

Maybe its time now, with the season over, to pick 20 players who can hit a target, rather than 20 'bulls' as has been the mantra for so long now.  Then and only then can the coaching staff start to implement a slower cautious gamestyle ala Geelong have in 2019.

 

 

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