Match Preview and Team Selection - Round 1

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

2 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

 

This is the fear with wagner. 3 turnovers a game. Poor dispoal efficiency. 

You count them? He has improved at training, but let's wait and see, crucifixion set for 6.30pm Sunday?

[Deespicable 2,726]

11 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Assuming Brayshaw with teeth and since he didn't train parts of week would make sense. You could also consider he was poor in JLT 1 and good in JLT 2. Does being half good get you in our team these days?

Maynard over Tyson I think is more about providing us an option to play a defensive role on Selwood or GAJ if necessary without Viney. The only other option is Vince but you need multiple plans. A lot on here have questioned the quality of Tyson for a few years so you need to also expect that these decisions will occur as we get better. He is also one of our only mid options that really has no flexibility of role. 

Wagner is clearly the new whipping boy with Frost the player seen as what we want him to be not the player he performs as.  Wagner provides a lot more flexibility, allows us to free up Hibberd and Hunt to attack as well as the ability for Vince or Lewis through the middle and is much better in execution than given credit. He may not be the best player but his role in the team gives us a more flexible 22. For where Frost is at go back and watch how our backline functioned when OMac went off and Frost came on in the JLT. 

Expect to see strong debate like this every week as people adjust hopefully to the decisions a quality team with quality depth need to make at match committee and the increased expectations to stay in the team. 

Final note. Great to see finally no one querying Melksham's inclusion and growing importance to the team. For those that question if the selectors know what they are doing go and visit some early threads from last year. 

Brayshaw wasn't just good in JLT2, his last quarter was sensational - the first time since his opening year that I thought he can be elite. To drop him after that is incomprehensible, so let's hope they were worried about his wisdom tooth reaction.

You make a good point about Maynard being chosen to play more of a tagger role on Selwood or Ablett. It's still a big call though on Tyson.

I have no problems with Wags playing, he can play tall and small so gives our defence more flexibility, even if his kicking lacks penetration. But what seems to have been missed is that Jordy Lewis, who has trained all season with the backs, is selected and will play as a midfielder - barring us ditching one of our other seven defenders. Too me that is a surprise. Clearly Jordy can cope - he played around 250 games in the guts for the Hawks. But it is still a shock and smacks a little of 'different rules'. But then again maybe Jordy at the Hawks had a knack of annoying Selwood.

I just hope that for the first six weeks, we rotate our squad around a little - we will need to a bit when we have just five days between Tigers and Bombers, but what we are seeing is that we have a squad of about 30 players who are all damn good and not all of them can fit into 22.  So maybe adopting cricket's horses for courses policy is appropriate.

 

[Macca 16,997]

9 hours ago, McQueen said:

I see this as a sign of significant progress.

No longer do we select a ‘best 22’ in general... we select a best 22 for the opposition on the weekend.

It’s a clear indicator of the depth now within the list and a constant reminder to players that you’re not an automatic inclusion.

The competitive nature of even getting a game is now becoming very evident to our list.

This, as supporters, is what we’ve been waiting a long while for.

Ego’s are out the door.

Team first.

Good post Steve ... although I don't believe we necessarily have an 'ego' issue - more like pure ability,  application,  energy & effort.  All the noise in the media is just that - noise. 

Brayshaw,  Tyson & Frost could have all been picked but in Goodwin's eyes they are lacking in some of the basics.  By not playing any of the 3 it puts the whole list on notice.  All 3 are not being punished either - Goodwin is endeavoring to improve all 3 players. 

As you said,  team first. 

[defuture15 899]

5 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

You count them? He has improved at training, but let's wait and see, crucifixion set for 6.30pm Sunday?

Crucifixion?

Good

Line on the left 1 cross each

[samcantstandya 1,057]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I doubt it very much. 

I double doubt it.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

15 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Has Maynard ever actually done anything resembling that, either at Casey, or any of his other games?

Casey watchers?

His other one AFL game, that's what he is building his game on, if you think Viney attacks the bal with ferocity, we are talking a 90kg midfielder with basketball agility, could be anything

[McQueen 17,865]

17 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Has Maynard ever actually done anything resembling that, either at Casey, or any of his other games?

Casey watchers?

Have you seen how agro he was on a basketball ball court?

From the limited vision I’ve seen of him at Casey he was very physical.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,209]

9 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Brayshaw wasn't just good in JLT2, his last quarter was sensational - the first time since his opening year that I thought he can be elite. To drop him after that is incomprehensible, so let's hope they were worried about his wisdom tooth reaction.

To be clear I rate Brayshaw in our best 22 but I think we are passed the point where one great quarter in 8 gets you a round 1 spot. I think if fit he would have probably played ahead of Maynard and possibly Hannan but am ok that if he's not 100% and based on inconsistency of form over the JLT that we have the depth to make these choices. 

Dont think it will take long to see him in the red and blue. 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

14 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Assuming Brayshaw with teeth and since he didn't train parts of week would make sense. You could also consider he was poor in JLT 1 and good in JLT 2. Does being half good get you in our team these days?

Maynard over Tyson I think is more about providing us an option to play a defensive role on Selwood or GAJ if necessary without Viney. The only other option is Vince but you need multiple plans. A lot on here have questioned the quality of Tyson for a few years so you need to also expect that these decisions will occur as we get better. He is also one of our only mid options that really has no flexibility of role. 

Wagner is clearly the new whipping boy with Frost the player seen as what we want him to be not the player he performs as.  Wagner provides a lot more flexibility, allows us to free up Hibberd and Hunt to attack as well as the ability for Vince or Lewis through the middle and is much better in execution than given credit. He may not be the best player but his role in the team gives us a more flexible 22. For where Frost is at go back and watch how our backline functioned when OMac went off and Frost came on in the JLT. 

Expect to see strong debate like this every week as people adjust hopefully to the decisions a quality team with quality depth need to make at match committee and the increased expectations to stay in the team. 

Final note. Great to see finally no one querying Melksham's inclusion and growing importance to the team. For those that question if the selectors know what they are doing go and visit some early threads from last year. 

Top post. 

Agree with all. Those who question the Tyson decision are some of the the same ones who questioned the Melksham trade. 

[brendan 3,437]

50 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Assuming Brayshaw with teeth and since he didn't train parts of week would make sense. You could also consider he was poor in JLT 1 and good in JLT 2. Does being half good get you in our team these days?

Maynard over Tyson I think is more about providing us an option to play a defensive role on Selwood or GAJ if necessary without Viney. The only other option is Vince but you need multiple plans. A lot on here have questioned the quality of Tyson for a few years so you need to also expect that these decisions will occur as we get better. He is also one of our only mid options that really has no flexibility of role. 

Wagner is clearly the new whipping boy with Frost the player seen as what we want him to be not the player he performs as.  Wagner provides a lot more flexibility, allows us to free up Hibberd and Hunt to attack as well as the ability for Vince or Lewis through the middle and is much better in execution than given credit. He may not be the best player but his role in the team gives us a more flexible 22. For where Frost is at go back and watch how our backline functioned when OMac went off and Frost came on in the JLT. 

Expect to see strong debate like this every week as people adjust hopefully to the decisions a quality team with quality depth need to make at match committee and the increased expectations to stay in the team. 

Final note. Great to see finally no one querying Melksham's inclusion and growing importance to the team. For those that question if the selectors know what they are doing go and visit some early threads from last year. 

Is that you goody, this post nails it the coaches have a plan and we just need to trust they know what they are doing 

[rjay 24,964]

3 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Top post. 

Agree with all. Those who question the Tyson decision are some of the the same ones who questioned the Melksham trade. 

Long bow there 'steve'...

..but I do question the Tyson decision and also the reasoning behind it. Maynard hasn't shown enough at senior level to justify his selection, disposal very iffy and runs to wrong positions.

Sunday I guess will be the judge.

[sue 9,107]

27 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Just a note on Maynard, Goodwin stated it is everything, training included, that is taken into consideration 

Thursday, last training before 1st gane, let's ease thru it and not get hurt

Not Maynard, he attacked the whole session, including one contested possession followed by a flat out 70 metre sprint into the 50 to be on the end of the chain he started

So, either everyone else didn't follow the team rule to train hard (in which case the whole team bar Maynard should be dropped) or Maynard didn't follow the team rule to take it easy at training.  If the latter, why was he rewarded with a spot in the team?  I'm confused....

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

3 minutes ago, sue said:

So, either everyone else didn't follow the team rule to train hard (in which case the whole team bar Maynard should be dropped) or Maynard didn't follow the team rule to take it easy at training.  If the latter, why was he rewarded with a spot in the team?  I'm confused....

Everybody trained, but watching training for last five years, you can see the attitude, high level but let's not get hurt

Maynard 'attacked'

[leucopogon 1,519]

Going early, we lost this one at the selection table

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

7 minutes ago, rjay said:

Long bow there 'steve'...

..but I do question the Tyson decision and also the reasoning behind it. Maynard hasn't shown enough at senior level to justify his selection, disposal very iffy and runs to wrong positions.

Sunday I guess will be the judge.

1 game? Didn't get BOG?

[rjay 24,964]

5 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

1 game? Didn't get BOG?

I'm looking at the JLT (and AFLX for what it's worth) games 'Sat'...I don't think he did enough to justify selection.

...but as I say, Sunday will be the judge.

Edited March 24, 2018 by rjay

[faultydet 7,611]

30 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

His other one AFL game, that's what he is building his game on, if you think Viney attacks the bal with ferocity, we are talking a 90kg midfielder with basketball agility, could be anything

He has played practice matches also Sat. Thats what I was referring to.

 

Can he read the play? Has looked a bit lost when ive seen him.

 

 

[jnrmac 20,104]

52 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Has Maynard ever actually done anything resembling that, either at Casey, or any of his other games?

Casey watchers?

Maynard's last game was a final for Casey. Justin Plapp's report:

Corey Maynard: Corey had 35 disposals, including 27 contested possessions, five marks, 18 clearances, nine inside 50s and five tackles. I can simply say that Corey’s game on the weekend was probably one of the best performances I’ve ever seen at VFL level – in any game. The way he willed himself to generate something from his team – and through critical contests – was outstanding. He also showed his ability to win the contested ball and get the ball going forward for us, highlighted by his clearance work. He had huge numbers – and he was huge for us. He’s a great young leader that’s finding his way. He dug in and did everything he could for his team. I thought he was best-on-ground by a mile.

If anyone is wondering why Maynard has been selected I think hardness is one of his key attributes.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

Questioning a depth players inclusion at the expense of a best 22 player does not make him a "whipping boy" get a grip

[DubDee 25,915]

Wow Frost has become a gun defender capable of keeping Hawkins quiet in the past 48 hours!

frost decision making and disposal is worse than wagners. Just because he is big and fast people tend to not see this?

[chook fowler 19,459]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I wouldn’t rule out Brayshaw’s teeth being an issue, but it is interesting that there was talk on here after AFLX about him not really having a position.

You wouldn’t want to have a smack in the chops soon after having your wisdom teeth out.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,209]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Questioning a depth players inclusion at the expense of a best 22 player does not make him a "whipping boy" get a grip

A "depth player" who played all the JLT and is named when we have 40 fit players. I think he is higher in those considered for selection than a lot on here understand. The best teams have role players who on their own you would not rate highly but are rated a lot higher due to their impact to the overall team structure. I think Wagner is clearly one of these but most focus on his alleged erratic execution and inability to defend well which seems to be limited in example over the preseason. 

I enjoy those that use the lost at selection crutch if we lose but will be silent if we win. Being he played all preseason when we were undefeated speaks more to if it ain't broke don't fix it. 

To be clear I would not have personally named him in my best 22 but I can read the bigger picture as to why.

[Hot as Hell 466]

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Assuming Brayshaw with teeth and since he didn't train parts of week would make sense. You could also consider he was poor in JLT 1 and good in JLT 2. Does being half good get you in our team these days?

Maynard over Tyson I think is more about providing us an option to play a defensive role on Selwood or GAJ if necessary without Viney. The only other option is Vince but you need multiple plans. A lot on here have questioned the quality of Tyson for a few years so you need to also expect that these decisions will occur as we get better. He is also one of our only mid options that really has no flexibility of role. 

Wagner is clearly the new whipping boy with Frost the player seen as what we want him to be not the player he performs as.  Wagner provides a lot more flexibility, allows us to free up Hibberd and Hunt to attack as well as the ability for Vince or Lewis through the middle and is much better in execution than given credit. He may not be the best player but his role in the team gives us a more flexible 22. For where Frost is at go back and watch how our backline functioned when OMac went off and Frost came on in the JLT. 

Expect to see strong debate like this every week as people adjust hopefully to the decisions a quality team with quality depth need to make at match committee and the increased expectations to stay in the team. 

Final note. Great to see finally no one querying Melksham's inclusion and growing importance to the team. For those that question if the selectors know what they are doing go and visit some early threads from last year. 

I did my lid to you big red. 

You have indeed mastered the art of self serving narrative. 

Your commentary on Wagner is at the very least arguable. 

I prefer to challenge the inflammatory assessment of Frost superbly summarised under the catch all and shut up statement "watch how the backline functioned when O Mac was off and Frost came on". 

I hope you watched the JLT replay, sir to wit any impartial observer would have noted in the period O Mac was on, the ball barely went into our defence.

Both on the field and the scoreboard we were dominating and centre clearances went all our way. 

Now sir,  contrast that with the 3rd quarter where indeed you were correct in that O Mac was off the ground. St Kilda dominated clearances and fired both precise and chaos balls incessantly into their forward line. Our whole backline was under the pump becuase we had lost control at the mid field. 

Are you suggesting sir, that St Kilda's 6 goal 3rd qtr dominance be attributed to the absence of O Mac? The player who conceded 2 poor frees 1 of which that led to 1 of the Saints early goals.  Is Frost now supposedly single handedly,  responsible for the entire defence. 

I respectfully suggest you take the patch off your bad eye and try watching the game from a wider perspective. 

Neither of these players will be our panacea but to excuse the accountable lapses of one to pass off responsibility to the other smacks of narrowed vision. 

We will miss a big, strong, fast and courageous body against the Cats. That is all. 

In my view the MFC would have been better served with both O Mac and Frost rather than O Mac and Wags. Nothing more. 

I hope the 22 we have selected perform to their best. If that be good enough we will all enjoy the game. If not, we can decide whether the fame was lost on Sunday the  25th or Friday the 23rd.

No doubt there will be much boisterous discussion, either way. 

[640MD 3,383]

I just hope the Selectors know more than I do about football, I got a surprise at the omissions and who got included

 

Go Dees

[PaulRB 6,391]

On reflection and acquiescing to the odd idea the Goody and the MC know more about footy and our team than I do, the selections hit me as aggressive and positioning us to match, hunt and hurt Geelong around the ball, rebound well and put the Cats to the sword when the opportunity arises. 

Maynard and Wagner are in because they complement our game plan/style more than those left out.

Assuming Maynard brings the endeavour and skills that the above review of his last VFL game indicate, to AFL level, we may have another big bullocking agile midfielder. That would be a big win.

Wagner has hit me as a player who’s nature is to “defend to create” and is building his game upon efforts to have us rebound, efforts which sometimes fail, but he doesn’t drop his head or deviate from his role, and thus will only improve. 

Reckon, the Cats are in for a tough day at the office on Sunday, and Goody’s selections seem less odd in the context of developing the players for the roles he sees us needing to build a great team for September.

I trust his plan.

Edited March 24, 2018 by PaulRB