Jump to content

Darkhorse72

Women told to score more

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, rjay said:

Sorry 'Lucifer', you can't compare the 2 games. It's the nature of soccer is it's a low scoring game and that you are on the edge of your seat for the whole game because at any moment the score could come.

The skills are sublime.

You can't relate that to womens football. The nature of Australian football is it's a free flowing and scoring game but despite all their best efforts in the AWFL the scores are low because the skills at this stage are poor.

Fair comments rjay. Perhaps it is the closeness of a game rather than the scoreline which creates the excitement eg Dees vs Giants last week.

I was drawing attention to 'goals scored' seemingly being the sole measuring stick for the AFLW being enjoyable to watch (and a defacto measure of its success). 

Its a shame the focus is on 'low' scores for which there are many reasons: 

  • innate skill,
  • short 'pre-season'
  • inexperience playing as a team,
  • low time the ball is 'in-play' (from short quarters and limited time-on),
  • 16 players on full sized oval,
  • Player related - experience, fitness, match practice, part-timers, non-football backgrounds etc.

Yet Hocking puts the low scores down to 'congestion' and defensive coaching!  Hocking hurt his own product this week by generating negative headlines and a negative narrative.  Hocking needs to nurse this through because the scorelines won't get better in a hurry. 

Wonder what he will come up this week:  last night's game scores were 3.12.30 to 1.3.9.  A grand total of 4 goals!!

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

I'm all for AFLW league, but if you want to be professional, then you need to look professional. Daisy Pearce and Mel Hickey are obviously the role models for the game. But when I see players like Cranston who to me looks 15kgs overweight, it just doesn't look good for the game. I saw several large women running around across the games on the weekend and I honestly couldn't take it seriously. Schoolboys could run all over them. I haven't even mentioned skills yet, but gosh they were atrocious and on par with a under 16's schoolboy games just from watching the first half of the Melb vs GWS game.

In short, work on your bloody fitness so you can at least resemble an athlete and learn how to kick properly and you'll make the game more bearable to watch. 

 

Um, she lost 15 kgs since last season and of her 3 goals, one was outrunning an opponent and another was the match-winner. Not to mention a sublime pick-up at full speed out of a contest which we'd marvel at in the men's game. All in the second half when other players were running out of gas.

Looks pretty good to me. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2018 at 5:48 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm not sure where the 15 goals comes from?  An AFL game is 120 minutes but an AFLW game is a little over half that at 68 minutes (with 16 relatively inexperienced players).  If last week's scores are adjusted for time played they would be much more like an AFL game. 

Upscaling/adjusting of the scores from yesterdays MFC Vs Crows game  for minutes played would have us scoring almost the 100 points level (98.82 to be precise) generally considered to be par in the men's game.  Even then, there were numerous times in the second half of last season our mens team failed to get above the 100 points mark.

Edited by Rodney (Balls) Grinter
Mental calculation error.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/9/2018 at 11:30 PM, Caligula's Cohort! said:

I'm all for AFLW league, but if you want to be professional, then you need to look professional. Daisy Pearce and Mel Hickey are obviously the role models for the game. But when I see players like Cranston who to me looks 15kgs overweight, it just doesn't look good for the game. I saw several large women running around across the games on the weekend and I honestly couldn't take it seriously. Schoolboys could run all over them. I haven't even mentioned skills yet, but gosh they were atrocious and on par with a under 16's schoolboy games just from watching the first half of the Melb vs GWS game.

In short, work on your bloody fitness so you can at least resemble an athlete and learn how to kick properly and you'll make the game more bearable to watch. 

 

Doesn't look as 'unfit' as Tony Locket did at times when he played and no one seemed to make a huge thing about that.  

I don't recall plugged going for too many runs on the ball like Cranston either.

Edited by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 2/9/2018 at 10:35 AM, Little Goffy said:

On the congestion issue, I would guess that you could almost build an imaginary equation to explain it. Obviously in any game of footy congestion happens whenever the ball gets stuck in one space long enough for extra players (the peloton?) to arrive.

So, the 'trouble' is that in the women's game the player's willingnes to work hard to get to contests has reached a standard above a balance with player's ability to quickly grab and dispose of the ball.

The two main skill deficiencies in the women's game seem to be

a) collecting a loose ball from the ground

b) quick, effective handballs to a teammate to open up into space.

Both are skills that take a lot of practice. And then some more practice. And some more practice after that. They are also skills that basically don't turn up in any other sport that players might be switching across from. Not in netball, soccer, basketball, long distance running, or even ultimate frisbee.

So it makes sense that they are the skills coming through most slowly for new players. And unfortunately I expect it will continue to be a slow process improving those particular skills.

On the one hand, it'll take years to really pick up, while we wait for all those Auskick girls to have spent ten years with a Sherrin in their hands all day.

On the other hand, there's definitely no biological reason limiting women's ability to collect a loose ground ball or to execute an effective handball. So, for the fans, when you see that error, at least you'll know that it will eventually clear up.

And if you happen to know any fit young women or girls (it'd be granddaughters for most on this sight, yes? :P ) make sure you do chaotic handball drills with them every time you see them.

 

 

Good analysis and agreed.

The other area where the women's game will be inherently at a disadvantage with respect to congestion is the lesser distance that players can achieve, both by hand and foot which will inherently compress the spread of players around stoppges and make it harder to break out into open space.  Not sure how that could be best combatted?  Limited zoning perhaps? (Which I also think could be a good thing for the men's game).  Perhaps cut the feild in half and make it that all defenders can not go past half way, with one player a side to be perminantly positioned in the foward 50 arc...might be reasonably feasible to umpire using GPS tech now.

I'm still at a miss as to why the AFL don't keep pulling back the interchange limit in the mens game.  In my mind, it would force players to pace themselves more and for coaches to revert back to tactics that didn't rely on every player trying to cover the whole feild all the time.

Aussie rules is at it's best when it's a free flowing display of airial and ground ball contests between a limited number of opponents, not a huge pack of players fighting for clearances.  The occational pack is ok IMHO, but when the game starts to be defined more by packs than ball movement is when it looses it's appeal.

Edited by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tonight the Bulldogs delivered a very decent score by any standard:  12.14.86.  In the process they destroyed Carlton whose season is over and booked themselves a GF berth.  Cartlton were woeful - I even started to feel a bit sorry for the players (but not the club or the jumper).

If the AFL wants to complain about low scoring they should go knocking on Carlton's door.  They are the culprit, week after week after week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/02/2018 at 9:06 AM, rjay said:

Sorry 'Lucifer', you can't compare the 2 games. It's the nature of soccer is it's a low scoring game and that you are on the edge of your seat for the whole game because at any moment the score could come.

The skills are sublime.

You can't relate that to womens football. The nature of Australian football is it's a free flowing and scoring game but despite all their best efforts in the AWFL the scores are low because the skills at this stage are poor.

It’s why I love football and hate soccer. Soccer is like watching grass grow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We score quite well. We’re just more chosey about our men ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a really good article on the Bulldogs game style/game plan.  It is clearly successful and high scoring even with key players out (not that Carlton is much opposition (praying that we thrash them in round 6)).  https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/womens-afl/the-western-bulldogs-ball-movement-and-game-style-is-the-future-of-the-aflw/news-story/d7889aa0c5f4c76838e64859950e5402

"They have a strong quality of player across their 22, and have a game plan every player can work to — rather than just their stars".

We try to control ball movement by taking possession whereas Freo and Collingwood were very good at controlling ball movement by tapping, kicking and sliding it forward.  How often did they move it from the back to the forward line virtually along the ground (because their kicking and handball wasn't good enough to avoid turnovers).  We just don't get to ground level often enough preferring to rely on our considerable skill to win out.

Freo and Pies tactics have kept us to low, percentage killing scores.  We do need to change how we play.

I hope Stinear reads that article.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    COOKED by The Oracle

    I can vividly remember when the Demons ventured onto Blundstone Arena for the first time in early 2016 only to lose to the Kangaroos by 20.11.131 to 21.10.136.    Melbourne was then a team on the up and up: young, enthusiastic and bold. It gave up a huge quarter time deficit after kicking against a strong wind but made that up by half time and fell dramatically short after an exciting high scoring affair.  The team lost no fans that day - they were willing to take the game on and attac

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    HELP by KC rom Casey

    The Casey Demons finished off their home and away season against Frankston at Skybus Stadium on Sunday with a narrow, unconvincing 6-point victory that left the door slightly open for a top eight berth when the VFL finals begin in a fortnight’s time. While sunny skies prevailed over Frankston in the morning, the skies became overcast by noon and heavy waves pounded the bay nearby as the rains came in to greet the players as the game started. And conditions stayed dark and dreary for the rem

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THANKS BUT NO THANKS by George on the Outer

    Thanks, but no thanks! In a round where the club was supposed to thank their fans for the support during the year, the Melbourne Football Club chose to do otherwise with a 53 point loss to a team that sat 15th on the ladder.  Don’t give us cheap jumpers that can’t be sold in the Demon shop.  Don’t give us vouchers to shop there, give us something on the field, which is why we come to the football in the first place. It was a disgraceful performance, which started with a disgracefu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SLEEP OUT AT THE MCG by The Oracle

    Around about 12 months ago Melbourne and Sydney fought out an epic battle between two top eight teams fighting for the best possible ladder position in the lead up to the finals. The Swans triumphed by 9 points at the MCG after the Demons came back from five goals down at three quarter time. But for its poor kicking for goal, Melbourne might well have won the game and finished in the top four. Who knows what might then have happened for the club in September? As a consequence, the person re

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A LITTLE RAY OF SUNSHINE by KC from Casey

    Two clubs that have been hard hit by injury recently took part in a dour battle under dark clouds and, with intermittent showers falling, it wasn’t a pretty game at Victoria Park on Sunday. Despite all that, the Casey Demons added a little ray of sunshine to their day to get the job done over a "traditional" rival with a 15 point victory over Collingwood VFL that breathed life back into their season. There were a few highlights at the ground that in past days has seen many titanic batt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THE RETRO ROUND by George on the Outer

    We have seen it all before… Yes, a wonderful idea to showcase what used to be in football.  Big crowds, umpires who knew how to apply the rules and not opinions, high marks, skilful players. But for the Melbourne supporters their retro is what it has been like for the past 10 years. Losing games, end on end, year after year.  Opportunities squandered in front of goal. VFL standard players running around at the MCG. Just more of the same, and the game against Collingwood was no ex

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Thanks to Demonlanders for their input into this week’s preview. Ralphius Maximus is short and bittersweet: We'll crack in at the bounce to create a contest, win our share of the ball, butcher the forward movement and get scored on easily from the intercepts. Not that hard to predict. Big Demon says: Unfortunately Collingwood will win because they have a lot more to play for. We will be good in parts but really the season is well over so we will have to put up with those bell

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    WHAT, NO BLOOD? by George on the Outer

    The feeling when turning up to the MCG on a Saturday night to play a top four side in Richmond, while the Melbourne sits cemented in close proximity to the bottom of the table is like attending the Colosseum in Ancient Roman times. The expectation is that a bloodbath is about to occur. There are 100,000 Richmond members and 50,000 Melbourne members, and despite the fact that it turned out to be a wet night after half-time, a crowd of only 37K bothered to turn up. That should never have happ

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    A MAN’S ERRAND by KC from Casey

    A young and undermanned Casey Demons were sent out on Saturday to the Swinburne Centre in the shadows of the MCG on a man’s errand against a very experienced Richmond VFL combination which is the clear ladder leader and fielded no less than 18 AFL listed players. It was expected to be a rout and the Tigers made easy work of it in the early stages when they held a 26 point lead by quarter time. To their credit however, the Demons weathered the storm and kept their opponents within the range

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THAT’S FOOTBALL by Whispering Jack

    As the season rolls on towards the finals and the football world witnesses the aftermath of the sacking of the league’s unsuccessful coaches, it’s almost  inevitable that the spotlight will turn firmly upon the complete and utter failure of season 2019 - the Melbourne Football Club.  For a team that finished in fourth place last year and was heavily touted as a premiership contender, the fall from grace has been dramatic. As things stand, the Demons look certain to finish 13 places down on

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE MOMENT OF TRUTH IS COMING by KC from Casey

    At half time in Sunday’s game at Trevor Barker Beach Oval, things weren’t looking too flash for the flailing finals prospects of the Casey Demons. Key forward Sam Weideman had suffered a concussion in his first contest and, with a few exceptions, the team was playing like a rabble rather than a finals contender. The Demons were 23 points in arrears to the Zebras and their season was headed towards oblivion. It was the skipper Mitch White who spurred his team on by word and by deed - he fini

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    RIPPING THE HEART OUT by George on the Outer

    And BOG for St. Kilda in last night’s game at Marvel Stadium? It was Melbourne!  This brilliant contributor managed to be the initiator of 13.7 in turnovers for the side, and resulted in a come from behind victory for the mighty Saints. That’s it folks, Melbourne have set a new record for the most turnovers resulting in opposition scores. Despite leading half way through the final quarter (yet again) the Demons managed to right themselves and deliver the ball directly to the opposition

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

×
×
  • Create New...