Ruck depth

[Pates 9,660]

So obviously Gawn is our number one and I’m confident that a pre-season to get over his injury from last year will help restore him to one of the premier ruckmen of the competition. 

But should he go down again I am concerned about where that leaves us. We have Pederson as our chop out ruck should he (hopefully) continue his form from last year and TMac. Trading Watts and delisting Spencer has also meant we have lost two of our other secondary options. 

Do we need to look into drafting a mature age ruck as a back up?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Pates

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

6 minutes ago, Pates said:

So obviously Gawn is our number one and I’m confident that a pre-season to get over his injury from last year will help restore him to one of the premier ruckmen of the competition. 

But should he go down again I am concerned about where that leaves us. We have Pederson as our chop out ruck should he (hopefully) continue his form from last year and TMac. Trading Watts and delisting Spencer has also meant we have lost two of our other secondary options. 

Do we need to look into drafting a mature age ruck as a back up?

Taylor indicated that they will back Gawn in so we don't seem to be after ruckman only midfield depth and small forwards we will be looking at.

[ickey_11 145]

Tommy McD is probably the next option after Pederson, with Mitch King developing. I also expect them to draft another on the primary list or rookie list

Edited October 19, 2017 by ickey_11

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Trade for Grigg.

[old dee 23,801]

We played our best football this year without Gawn and Spencer. A greatly overrated position in this era of AFL.

We have enough Ruckman, worry more about who will kick a winning score.

[Diamond_Jim 12,598]

The whole idea of the ruckman is up for debate.

I am starting to think that you have one maybe two at the most and then you back it up with KPP/Ruck players. These are competent Casey level players who would ruck for that team at least one quarter per game.

The idea of grooming future ruckmen is just too fraught with chance and ties up list spots.

I also think it is relatively easy to go into the trade season and pick up another club's back up ruckman in return for a promise that they will be first ruck.

Coming into 2017 I was excited by the dominance that Gawn could deliver. Injuries aside my thoughts have now changed and while I think rucks are useful they are rarely winners.

Will be very interesting to see how Natanui and Gawn perform in 2018.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

Apparently a lot of 2nd rucks were thrown up at trade week (Nichols, Goldy/Pruess etc.) and no one wanted them, not even GWS who knew their main ruck is about to retire. Goes to show the position has changed and teams value having 1 decent one then making do if injury's strike. A fit and dominating Gawn could change the thoughts again, so lets hope he gets back to those 2016 levels. 

[hemingway 7,628]

31 minutes ago, old dee said:

We played our best football this year without Gawn and Spencer. A greatly overrated position in this era of AFL.

We have enough Ruckman, worry more about who will kick a winning score.

Old Dee, I don't agree.

A dominant ruckman is a weapon.  You can get by pinch hitters or second string ruckman if you have a class midfield but you can still gain tremendous advantages from a dominant big man.   

When Gawn was dominant he brought teammates into the game and gave us improved clearance.  Collingwood beat us in the final match with a dominant ruckman, Grundy.

Nankervis may not have been the reason for a Tigers flag but he was a major contributor. 

When Gawn was at his best he gave us tremendous advantages not only at centre bounce but around the ground with his marking capability. Opponents had trouble matching up on him.  

A dominant big man brings others into the game and gives your team a tremendous psychological advantage. 

[old55 23,625]

We have enough IMO.

Gawn/TMac is the preferred set.  Pedersen is back-up.

We need King and Filipovic to play at VFL level to develop - with another pre-season King should be ready to play at AFL level a bit next year if necessary.

Keilty can ruck at a pinch.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

54 minutes ago, old dee said:

We played our best football this year without Gawn and Spencer. A greatly overrated position in this era of AFL.

We have enough Ruckman, worry more about who will kick a winning score.

I won't  elaborate.

Spencer went down definitely lost that game because of his injury against Richmond. Gawn All Australian form . Win most of the games.

Ruckmen  can dominate ....Very vital. 

[beelzebub 23,380]

Ruck depth ?  We have none...depth.

Im not sure that is as much a worry as it used to be. That said , how long would Pedo be utilised as a fill in..or would you want to pressgang TMac too often ?

I'm still leaning on the side of a good ruck is better than none.  But we only have the ONE fair dinkum ruck atm.

[old dee 23,801]

30 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Ruck depth ?  We have none...depth.

Im not sure that is as much a worry as it used to be. That said , how long would Pedo be utilised as a fill in..or would you want to pressgang TMac too often ?

I'm still leaning on the side of a good ruck is better than none.  But we only have the ONE fair dinkum ruck atm.

There are a couple of kids at Casey they will do if push comes to shove. 

You can get by with someone who just competes. 

[beelzebub 23,380]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

There are a couple of kids at Casey they will do if push comes to shove. 

You can get by with someone who just competes. 

that's all  !

[old dee 23,801]

Just now, beelzebub said:

that's all  !

A grossly over rated position in today's game bb.

Richmond won a flag with an average one.

we have far more pressing problems.

Like who kicks the goals.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,242]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

A grossly over rated position in today's game bb.

Richmond won a flag with an average one.

we have far more pressing problems.

Like who kicks the goals.

I reckon Weid is good for around 40 od !

[hemingway 7,628]

20 minutes ago, old dee said:

There are a couple of kids at Casey they will do if push comes to shove. 

You can get by with someone who just competes. 

no you cant 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

Old Dee, I don't agree.

A dominant ruckman is a weapon.  You can get by pinch hitters or second string ruckman if you have a class midfield but you can still gain tremendous advantages from a dominant big man.   

When Gawn was dominant he brought teammates into the game and gave us improved clearance.  Collingwood beat us in the final match with a dominant ruckman, Grundy.

Nankervis may not have been the reason for a Tigers flag but he was a major contributor. 

When Gawn was at his best he gave us tremendous advantages not only at centre bounce but around the ground with his marking capability. Opponents had trouble matching up on him.  

A dominant big man brings others into the game and gives your team a tremendous psychological advantage. 

Yes you are right on.

I am hoping for Gawn to produce his All Australian  form. I think then l think then we will be a dominant team. 

[DeeZone 9,879]

Definitely need a 198 - 200 cm fwd / ruck on our list that can compete and kick a goal when required.

[DeeZone 9,879]

Ps(one with aggressive tendencies)

[old dee 23,801]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

no you cant 

I think we will never agree on this one Ernest.

[beelzebub 23,380]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

A grossly over rated position in today's game bb.

Richmond won a flag with an average one.

we have far more pressing problems.

Like who kicks the goals.

I would agree in so much as i would rate the role of say ..a good running outside mid as more a pressing need than rucking per se.

[old dee 23,801]

1 hour ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I reckon Weid is good for around 40 od !

I am not going to fall for that on Bbo 

Too obvious

Edited October 20, 2017 by old dee

[Rogue 585]

We have our #1 ruck and two kids developing. It'd be nice if one of them was a bit further along with their development, though.

I don't think you need 4+ on your list. Where would they all play? One in the AFL team, two at Casey with them both spending time up forward, and then what..?

Edited October 20, 2017 by Rogue

[Diamond_Jim 12,598]

Last year we had 4 specialised ruckmen on our list. Admittedly they were at different stages of development but that was at least one and I suspect two too many. There has to be another way to develop the players through that 18- 24 year old period. Would much prefer one of those two places to go to a back up KPP player who provided solid ruck relief at VFL level. Perhaps the other to a specialist small forward.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

10 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Last year we had 4 specialised ruckmen on our list. Admittedly they were at different stages of development but that was at least one and I suspect two too many. There has to be another way to develop the players through that 18- 24 year old period. Would much prefer one of those two places to go to a back up KPP player who provided solid ruck relief at VFL level. Perhaps the other to a specialist small forward.

Including Cat B rookies it's 47 on your list. So it has been ok to 4 rucks if one of them is a Cat B or you've got a useful player like Maynard on your Cat B list. The issue is how to development them now the VFL Development league is gone. Filipovic or any other really young ruck would be better off playing local footy now than sitting on the pine for large parts of VFL games.

I think that's a factor in our decision to keep 3 and not have a Spencer type mature ager. If we had Spencer again then King and Filipovic would do nothing, they'd almost have to rotate weeks off. Now at least the young guys can share the ruck time.

King has shown me enough that in a year or two he can be a solid back up. Find a Pedersen replacement in the next year or two might be harder to do.