Tiger success and luck

[spirit of norm smith 16,450]

Why are the Tigers now in the Grand Final?

Sure it's the strength of Dustin Martin, the class of Trent Cotchin, the sheer nous of Riewoldt  and the stability of Alex Rance. 

Its adding Nankervis, Prestia & Caddy. 

Its adding small dynamic forwards. 

But there are 4 other key factors

1- LUCK ... no injuries all year (really only Nathan Drummond,  35-40 "list player" who did his knee). Amazing. Clean health for 40 others. 

2- FOOTBALL ... football football and football.  The Tigers had 330 possessions (200 kicks, 130 handballs) vs Giants 390 possessions (210 kicks 180 handballs). This was virtually the same in Tigers vs Cats. Other sides like Melbourne overpossess the footy and lose the footy in turnovers  

3- GOALS ... the forwards kick goals. If you are inside 50, run and kick goals. Not a further 3 handballs

and finally

4- G&D... tough determined footballers. No shirkers. Blokes all put their heads over the footy. 

 

[Demon Disciple 12,122]

Momentum. Pure and simple.

Tigers' have it in spades at the moment.

Take that away and you'd find that the Tigers' with the same player's, coaches, etc are a team who mightn't be in the top 8 teams in the AFL.

They are playing with momentum and spirit and 90,000 supporter's behind them. Momentum is a wondrous thing. The Dogs had it all of last September, will the Tigs be able to make it last 1 more week?

Edited September 23, 2017 by Demon Disciple

[biggestred 5,081]

5. Epic defensive work rate.

At one point gws switched  it and the guy went to kick it inside 50 but the tigers had worked so hard to get across it was 6 on 1.

Edited September 23, 2017 by biggestred

[deelete my account 1,194]

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

3- GOALS ... the forwards kick goals. If you are inside 50, run and kick goals. Not a further 3 handballs

There was a manic handball chain that led to a Jones goal against Freo that is the 'positive' aspect of the over-handballing - but it's far too infrequent, but when it comes off it's incredible. Any team with defensive pressure can disable that chain easily though. It's why we need players who can either snap around their body in a scissor kick like motion from 20-40 out the way Rioli and Cameron did this weekend, flexible goal sneaks OR dead eye dicks who we can chip the ball to and we know from 40, it's as good as in. Bruest, Menzel, WB's Dickson springs to mind, and why we need to keep Watts. Garlett is our obvious prime small forward, and Hannan and Petracca have a brilliant knack for kicking a goal inside a pack or shrugging off a pack in Petracca's case, but the livewire forward is one player we need to replace the 'Mid playing at half forward' position. Only elite midfielders who win contests more often than not are worthy of being in the forward line. Melksham has shown promise with his long kicking goals, but i think he's a wing.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Deeprived Childhood

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

Watch all hell break lose this week when only about 15,000 of their 75,000+ members get tickets.  (Plus their MCC and AFL members).

The will really go absolutely feral!! 

 

At least the crowd will be more even.  Can't imagine the die hard Ess, Coll, Carl fans barracking for Richmond.  

Hardwick has already started the sob story of being the underdogs looking for the fairytale wave of love the WB had last year from neutrals. 

[Clintosaurus 7,844]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Watch all hell break lose this week when only about 15,000 of their 75,000+ members get tickets.  (Plus their MCC and AFL members).

The will really go absolutely feral!! 

 

At least the crowd will be more even.  Can't imagine the die hard Ess, Coll, Carl fans barracking for Richmond.  

Hardwick has already started the sob story of being the underdogs looking for the fairytale wave of love the WB had last year from neutrals. 

They will be appealing to the Vicco Pride element for sure. Amazing how many fall for it. I'd rather an interstate team win than any of the scummy Vicco ones.

[Vineytime 847]

8 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Why are the Tigers now in the Grand Final?

Sure it's the strength of Dustin Martin, the class of Trent Cotchin, the sheer nous of Riewoldt  and the stability of Alex Rance. 

Its adding Nankervis, Prestia & Caddy. 

Its adding small dynamic forwards. 

But there are 4 other key factors

1- LUCK ... no injuries all year (really only Nathan Drummond,  35-40 "list player" who did his knee). Amazing. Clean health for 40 others. 

2- FOOTBALL ... football football and football.  The Tigers had 330 possessions (200 kicks, 130 handballs) vs Giants 390 possessions (210 kicks 180 handballs). This was virtually the same in Tigers vs Cats. Other sides like Melbourne overpossess the footy and lose the footy in turnovers  

3- GOALS ... the forwards kick goals. If you are inside 50, run and kick goals. Not a further 3 handballs

and finally

4- G&D... tough determined footballers. No shirkers. Blokes all put their heads over the footy. 

 

Good post, shows that we are not that far away IMO, the Anzac eve game earlier in the year was finals like and we controlled the game for the first 3 quarters. 

[jumbo returns 6,741]

And their captain sticks fat with his players and doesn't bag them out in the media

Nor does their coach

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

Very interesting that a team that ranks 18th for disposal efficiency can still make it to the GF . Take away their manic pressure, and man them up and force them to kick to a contest 

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

40 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

And their captain sticks fat with his players and doesn't bag them out in the media

Nor does their coach

Hang on.

Are you suggesting that our Captain does bag out our players in the media?

Specifically, your love child Jack Watts?

Edited September 23, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Hang on, what?

Can't comprehend what I just posted?

 

[Demonsone 2,037]

Stuck with their coach & their plan....

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

The State Government was desperate for a Tigers win.  Imagine the GF parade and Friday public holiday with barely a crowd! 

[beelzebub 23,364]

23 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Hang on.

Are you suggesting that our Captain does bag out our players in the media?

Specifically, your love child Jack Watts?

Hang on

Are you suggesting he doesn't ?

[qwerty7 326]

I'm so jealous. Why can't this be Melbourne 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,175]

They have a bunch of foot soldiers with limited skill (Rioli aside) but great pressure, have the best player in the comp and the best defensive general. They have no injuries, play with belief and have got momentum in a year when there has been no great sides except the Crows and Sydney for two thirds a season. 

Like the Dogs don't have the team for sustained success but may sneak a premiership if all falls their way next week. Belief is an amazing thing but I think the Crows have exactly the right style to bring them back to earth with a thud.

Edited September 23, 2017 by big_red_fire_engine

[Whispering_Jack 30,054]

LUCK: Anyone else think we might have snuck into the finals if we had Richmond's 2017 injury record?

There's good reason to believe that the other factors in the OP might come into play if you have your best players in the team on a regular week to week basis i.e adds stability and allows momentum to build over the season which is what we're seeing with the Tigers.

[george_on_the_outer 7,590]

The after match celebrations from the Richmond players reminded me of Melbourne in 2000.  Just getting there was an amazing outcome. Tears, hugs excitement. 

Trouble is the GF is against the 800lb gorilla, who have already given them a pasting during the season.  

As BRFE said, they don't have a player list for sustained success, and lack of injuries with a favourable draw this year have got them there, but with luck anything can happen on the day.  

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

Hang on, what?

Can't comprehend what I just posted?

 

Oh I can comprehend. I just can't believe the extent at which you defend Watts.

To the point where you completely misunderstand the commentary from our captain in regards to Watts and what is required from him as a player of nine years.

Jones was asked the inevitable question when on SEN regarding Jack's hiccups this year. He answered it honestly and respectfully. How you can interpret that as "bagging" Watts is genuinely ridiculous.

Your views regarding Watts are so out of whack given he is now a nine year senior player. There comes a point in time at which an individual takes responsibility for their own actions. And Jones wouldn't have been asked the question regarding  Watts' hiccups this year if Jack had taken responsibility and accountability for his preparation as an elite athlete who has been in the system for 9 years. Do you at all understand that?

Edited September 24, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

26 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

LUCK: Anyone else think we might have snuck into the finals if we had Richmond's 2017 injury record?

There's good reason to believe that the other factors in the OP might come into play if you have your best players in the team on a regular week to week basis i.e adds stability and allows momentum to build over the season which is what we're seeing with the Tigers.

Agree luck played a big part.

As it does for any team who makes it to the last day of September.

But that certainly doesn't take away the many other contributing factors that have allowed for this run of form.

Supporters obviously a big one. Hardwick's reprogramming over the off-season in both himself and his coaching techniques/philosophy and their general list strategy and gameplan.

Their players, (especially in their forward half) actually stick to what is required and have been playing that way at a consistently high level all year. Their manic pressure simply hasn't dropped off and I can't see it happening against Adelaide next week given the wave they're riding on in both support from their literally insane fans and the momentum they've built.

 

[Guest]

And with that, the 'argument' about whose rebuild was better is settled.

We and Richmond bottomed out in 2009. They held the faith with Dimma and recruited based on need (something we only started doing successfully under Roos) instead of playing kids whether it made sense or not.

Their top pick of the 09 draft is a likely Brownlow medallist and the best player in the league. We all know what we got from that draft...

That TigerDaze bloke must be feeling pretty happy now.

That being said, the Tiges looked happy to have just made it (like us in 88/00 and the Saints in 97).

When Spud Frawley said in 2001 that he would like to take a bit the passion out of the place, this is what he meant. They have stopped making knee jerk reactions based on fear of the supporter base. They need to even out the other extreme (i.e. losing their s#@! when they come good).

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

And Jones wouldn't have been asked the question regarding  Watts' hiccups this year if Jack had taken responsibility and accountability for his preparation as an elite athlete who has been in the system for 9 years. Do you at all understand that?

Spot on stmj. 

The difference between the Neeld and Roos/Goodwin regimes is that Neeld had a set on Jack the minute he walked through the door. 

Jack can't say that the new regime has been unfair to him. I can clearly remember Roosy, Bernie and Chunk going in to bat for him. As human beings, there are only so many times you can go into bat for someone only for them to let you down.

If this were 2011, then we could excuse it as something that kids do before maturing. But 9 years in?

[rjay 24,919]

18 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Their manic pressure simply hasn't dropped off and I can't see it happening against Adelaide next week given the wave they're riding on in both support from their literally insane fans and the momentum they've built.

Trouble for them is Adelaide will give it back in spades.

In their 2 finals to date physical pressure has been a one way street. Geelong didn't give a whimper and GWS lack hardness bar Ward, a lot of nice footballers but...

[deelete my account 1,194]

11 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Spot on stmj. 

The difference between the Neeld and Roos/Goodwin regimes is that Neeld had a set on Jack the minute he walked through the door. 

Jack can't say that the new regime has been unfair to him. I can clearly remember Roosy, Bernie and Chunk going in to bat for him. As human beings, there are only so many times you can go into bat for someone only for them to let you down.

If this were 2011, then we could excuse it as something that kids do before maturing. But 9 years in?

What is your opinion on trading Watts C.B.F.?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

7 minutes ago, rjay said:

Trouble for them is Adelaide will give it back in spades.

In their 2 finals to date physical pressure has been a one way street. Geelong didn't give a whimper and GWS lack hardness bar Ward, a lot of nice footballers but...

True, which is why it should be a cracking game.

Adelaide are definitely a better ball moving side but if Richmond are as crazed and manic as they have been then it'll even it up for sure.

Flip of the coin game imo.