Farewell Jack Watts

[Gator 17,383]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I really hope this isn't true.

Clear communication and role clarity are absolutely critical in running a high performance work environment.

I also still don't understand why Goodwin and others have spoken so openly about Watts' limitations in circumstances where they are not wishing to keep him and he:

- is known to be an enormously popular figure within the club; and

- has expressed his love of the club and desire to stay.

Makes no sense to me. Maintain a modicum of class and discuss the various trade options with other clubs more discretely.

 

So you're saying players need to be delisted at their exit interview also ?

So Keefe from Collingwood and Mullett/Wagner/Gibson from North, who've been delisted today, must be filthy with their clubs because they weren't told at their exit interviews ?

I'm not sure why he wasn't told at his exit interview, but I do know he was given plenty of notice prior to trade week starting.

Mountain/molehill.

Edited October 10, 2017 by ProDee

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

VP, I don't want to get into a slanging match with you mainly because I consider you to be one of the better contributors on this forum.

You can either accept or reject what I've said.

I will however add one more thing. Did you not get the feeling that the love the supporters gave Watts was similarly shared by the playing group? Do you at all consider just how that must be influencing them and moulding their behaviours around the club?

This club has celebrated mediocrity for a long time now and at last Goodwin is putting a full stop to it before it begins to infect our next batch of potential stars.

 

Loving him as a mate and loving playing with him are 2 different things. I'm sure we've all played with blokes who we were great mates with but didn't like playing with them as they were not quite up to it.

(you know you're not great when you struggle in Div 2 SFL)

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I really hope this isn't true.

Clear communication and role clarity are absolutely critical in running a high performance work environment.

I also still don't understand why Goodwin and others have spoken so openly about Watts' limitations in circumstances where they are not wishing to keep him and he:

- is known to be an enormously popular figure within the club; and

- has expressed his love of the club and desire to stay.

Makes no sense to me. Maintain a modicum of class and discuss the various trade options with other clubs more discretely.

 

You will be surprised how little clear communication there was with Jack throughout the year. Can assure you Watts was blindsided. Very poor.

[Lord Travis 10,743]

8 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Goodwin was even starting to look like Neeld last night, squinting and twitching

I thought the same thing and was terrified! He had the eyebrow twitch going and delivered a lacklustre speech devoid of passion and just demanding people give. Was not great...

If Watts is going to nominate Geelong, hopefully we can get pick 20 out of them. Maybe need to shuffle a late pick with them to seal the deal. Pick 33 is not worth the trade and I'd be disappointed if the club caved and gave him up for that.

[Gator 17,383]

1 minute ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

You will be surprised how little clear communication there was with Jack throughout the year. Can assure you Watts was blindsided. Very poor.

Says who ?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

1 hour ago, At the break of Gawn said:

http://player.triplem.com.au/melbourne/#/shows/The Hot Breakfast/11397

Was actually in the morning. Start at the 48min mark.

Key points from the segment (also contains snippets of a small interview with Trac and Gawn regarding Watts)

- Gawn and Petracca surprised by the trade and don't want him to go. Trac said that if Mahoney and Viney think it's best for the club then so be it (maybe it's not Goody?). He's Gawny's best friend so he said he'll watch him in the stands anyway wherever he goes but would great to still have him around.

- Roos said Watts is an extremely popular player at the club. Roos was shocked with the news after his progress after the past 2 years

- Said Watts is not a player you can bring straight back from injury. He's not an elite endurance player and requires time to build that up again. Said the club should've taken some responsibility in bringing him back too early

- Roos/Goody were sick of talking about Watts just because he's a no.1 pick. Once you're in the system you're just an AFL player. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. Players need to take responsibility of their weaknesses but need nurturing/support

- Claimed that Watts won 6-8 games off his own boot the last two years.

- likened the strengths/weaknesses situation to Johannisen. JJ couldn't get a game under McCartney. Beveridge focused on his positives and used his strengths to good effect.

- Goody was really supportive of Watts at end of 2016. So is unsure what had changed with Goody's views, but Goody would be taking advice from whole FD.

- Watts thought exit interview went ok. Not completely positive. But nothing unusual.

- Watts was advised by Connors first he was going to be traded. Not by the club. 

- Just added the usual positives about Jack. Elite decision maker, beautiful kick etc etc. Is suited in a top 8 side.

 

 

- Progress over the past 2 years where he regressed back to old habits of an unprofessional to his training and preparation

- He had a hamstring injury, not like he was coming back from a knee reco give me a spell. So he needed 6 weeks in the reserves to regain fitness before being able to return to the seniors? From a 3 week injury? This is just utter rubbish. And if a full time professional AFL player who has been in the system 9 years and has barely had any prolonged length of time out injured hasn't built up enough of a tank to cope with 4 weeks out with a hammy and needs another month to regain fitness in the reserves then that proves the point being made by the FD in regards to his approach to his training and his profession.

- When has he won a game off his own boot? He kicked the matchwinners against the Pies and last year against the Suns but I wouldn't say he won those games off his own boot. Didn't even poll in Queens Bday game, Petracca got the votes from memory

- Is he taking a stab at McCartney here? A guy who he helped bring in to the club?

- Why does he think Goodwin may have changed his views? Obviously something has happened in the interim, since he left the club

- I would be astonished if Watts wasn't given a heads up that a trade could be an option. Not saying it didn't happen  but we are taking Roos' version of what Watts presumably told him here. Perhaps when "exploring options" was raised in his exit interview he was oblivious to what it meant? 

- Poor if it came from his manager, he should've been notified by the club and the discussion should've been had so he was under no illusions why the club was taking this path.

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

 A

Edited October 10, 2017 by ChewyOnMyBoot

[Demonsone 2,042]

Frustrating that a 31yo Lewis who has climbed the mountain 4 times, and finished equal 3rd B&F....

Watts finished  21st & understand injury etc but need to question the mindset  and motivation difference between the two players...Lewis thanked his coaches how they helped him do extras etc and how Viney tried to keep up with Oliver's extras etf but couldn't match him. I understand different players will be motivated & do more to get better and this would be across all clubs, the question is what motivates Watts to get better?

I would want nothing more than to see him succeed & be a premiership player @ the MFC!

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

13 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

I can categorically confirm that it is true. It was Paul Connors that heard the whispers (some time after the exit interview) and then approached Goodwin to check them out.

Based on what?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

10 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

You will be surprised how little clear communication there was with Jack throughout the year. Can assure you Watts was blindsided. Very poor.

How do you know what was discussed between Watts and the coaches throughout the year?

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Based on what?

Work it out yourself Dr Gonzo. 

[daisycutter 29,622]

Just now, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Work it out yourself Dr Gonzo. 

that you, paul....paul?

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

11 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Says who ?

Me. If Jack goes, and i get permission, perhaps we meet for a coffee or a froffy.

But i doubt I'll get permission. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by ChewyOnMyBoot

[Gator 17,383]

2 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Me. If Jack goes, and i get permission, perhaps we meet for a coffee or a froffy.

But i doubt I'll get permission. 

OK.  Thanks.

I dismiss your concerns.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

3 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Work it out yourself Dr Gonzo. 

I wouldn't want to speculate. Forgive me if I don't blindly believe every anonymous comment.

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

Who did Jack with yesterday? I would assume thats how Roos found out.

Edited October 10, 2017 by ChewyOnMyBoot

[Willmoy1947 4,099]

Who benefits the most from creating discord between The Club and the supporters over Jack Watts?

Is it other Clubs supporters seeking revenge? ie TWSNBN, Adelaide, or Media ratbags or maggot hangers on?

AFL MI7 perhaps or"Humpty Dumbty USA"

[pinkshark 950]

40 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

I thought the same thing and was terrified! He had the eyebrow twitch going and delivered a lacklustre speech devoid of passion and just demanding people give. Was not great...

If Watts is going to nominate Geelong, hopefully we can get pick 20 out of them. Maybe need to shuffle a late pick with them to seal the deal. Pick 33 is not worth the trade and I'd be disappointed if the club caved and gave him up for that.

He's probably tired and a bit weary... having spent the last week or so, completely cocking things up!

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by pinkshark

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

8 hours ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

Can someone tell me if the following two stats are correct?

I think I heard Glen Luff stating these stats on  "Pure Footy", but I might have misinterpreted.

1/ Jack Watts is no. 4 in the AFL for contested pressure in the forward line.(!!!)

2/Jack Watts is no. 2 in the AFL for one on one contests.

Surely they can't be true, but he's usually spot on, so I think I heard it wrongly.

Am I correct in my recollection, that in the first third of the season, before our injuries, Melbourne was considered the no. 1 pressure team in the AFL? Watts was part of that side.

It is my understanding that that is correct JJC.  He is also No.2 in the AFL for hitting targets coming inside 50.  Aside from intercepts and pressure acts / effective tackles i50, I would argue this would be close to the top of the list on any coaching dept's list of must haves when considering KPI results from match review data.

The question I would love to ask the LG is this ...

1:  Was JW brought before them sometime shortly after his Byron Bay (Party/Poor Prep?) saga pre season and given an ultimatum, then failed to meet their expectations by seasons' end (pr some other time line) and was then shown the door??..OR....

2.   Was he brought before them at the end of the season, and without any prior warning notice from the LG (and the  either rubber stamped or pre-sanctioned by the coach/FD) just told  "sorry mate you failed to prepare as best we feel you could have (pre season and/or post injury) and we don't want you here anymore cause you're training standards & prep are a bad influence on the youngsters here!!??

Maybe GNF can shed some light here?? ....

8 hours ago, Grand New Flag said:

Watts is 100% gone. 

It has come to my attention that Watts has been shown the door with the full knowledge and approval of the leadership group...... people who love Jack and are close friends with Jack.  The leadership group think the team will be better without him and also think its best for Jack.

The final straw (as previously discussed) was the trip to Byron and his failure to do what ever he could to get back to full fitness as fast as possible.  It angered many players and coaches. It sends the wrong message to the playing group.

I am a Watts fan and this devastates me...... he is gone.

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Rusty Nails

[DemonDaniel 4]

I have a hunch, JW will stay at MFC now that it looks likely Port will sign Rockliff.

[beelzebub 23,380]

I'll now drive myself right back into drivel/dribble territory ( as some would have it ).

Just hang on whilst I afix my target  and don my flack jacket......

Im really in two minds as to where we are as a club right this very minute.  I really feel as though we've gone no more than a step forward and a lurch backwards.  In reality 10-12 and 12-10 and that remotely different and if folk want to break out the  Champagne and light the fireworks go right ahead..  A barb thrown back at Tex by Bartel re all this money/success shlt  was that Adelaide havent really had any success so in reality...stfu !! By that comparison we're still a long ways off as well and for mine we've but moved teh chairs forward on "that ship". Yeah..a cribbing forward but lets not get ahead of ourselves and be very careful about using it as a yardstick against ANYONE...especially our own.

It was interesting that somewhere the remark was reported ( of the Roos discussion )  that the likes of Macca couldnt get the best out of some players ) despite his supposed mercurial talent for such ) and following Maccas departure theDogs , some esp , lift and win a cup. History is there to judge what happens after but it shows to me all is seldom as it seems.

It also tells me that some folk succeed with some players where others don't. Anyone who suggest that Roos has no idea in reality highlights the namecaller themself. It would not surprise me a bit if Roos hasnt spoken to Jack since this debacle started.

I have a theory. I suspected it last year. I may even have mentioned it from time to time ( or possibly was just thinking aloud...I do that )  but I think Jack had his card marked  ( in thick 5b pencil ) before the season even started. He's the proverbial too hard basket for some.  Ive described Jack as the round peg among a square peg ideal team before.

Ive decided that the club just finds Jack too much hard work for whatever reward they feel he gives. He's somewhat unique and as such requires a unique approach.  But this is a TEAM  sport..we all do the same stuff ? ..NO ???

I think the current version of the FD have just given up on him as a bad exercise....too hard basket stuff.

Any opportunity to belittle, to castigate, to berate Watts was taken this year. Amazing stuff really. Despite Jack being burnt on and off the filed he still wanted to play for Melbourne. Jack isn't perfect...wtf is ?? As others have suggested theres a dozen youd strike a line through ahead of Jack but that isnt what this has all been about. Its been about moving Jack on.

Despite the rhetoric to the contrary I suspect the club wants all square peggers. Jack isnt one.  He needed to be rid of. He gets told one thing and subjected to another . Any number of double standards are in effect at the club currently but Jack isnt flavour of the month. No, he's been scapegoat of the year.

Many who think this is about Jack, in terms of debate and discussion  are actually missing the bigger picture. Its all very well to grunt and brouhaha about standards but when they arent applied across the board, or up the ladder then the whole thing becomes a laughable joke...and a bad one.

Quite frankly theres a stench about Melbounre atm for mine.  This is my opinion. I own it and don;t expect ANYONE to agree. That wouldnt be very Melbourne orientated now would it !!

If Jack goes for anything other than a like quality player  I'm calling bullshlt and from a long time ago.

Certtain folk were poised with their textas to change the pencil to indelible ink and have now got their way.

I hope that leads to a Premiership..Nothing else will warrant this disgrace of a period.

This club isnt new to burning people.  And we wonder why we're cursed !!

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I wouldn't want to speculate. Forgive me if I don't blindly believe every anonymous comment.

I can understand that.

If Roos has come out with that then i know Jacks definitely going.

I can assure you that Jack is highly respected and deeply loved by most if not all of the young guns. Contrary to what the club puts out there. Will be interested to see how they recover. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

8 hours ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

Can someone tell me if the following two stats are correct?

I think I heard Glen Luff stating these stats on  "Pure Footy", but I might have misinterpreted.

1/ Jack Watts is no. 4 in the AFL for contested pressure in the forward line.(!!!)

2/Jack Watts is no. 2 in the AFL for one on one contests.

Surely they can't be true, but he's usually spot on, so I think I heard it wrongly.

He may well be spot on. Later today I heard on SEN that Watts was 2nd for some kind of pressure act.

I nearly fell off my chair.

We don't need to blindly accept what the computer is telling us.

This is a variation of "computer says no". The modern day equivalent of the electricity company sending you a bill for $0.00 and later sending the sheriff to confiscate $0.00 of your possessions because you never sent a cheque for $0.00. (Yes that used to happen.)

I just looked up some Champion Data stats. Their pre-season predictions for the ladder had Bulldogs in 3rd, Magpies 7th, Tigers 10th and Dons 15th.

Do Champion Data really know that much more about the game than any keen observer? Or do they invent their own metrics and then watch games while pressing buttons on a laptop every time a metric is met. Is that insight or reactive button pushing?

I don't mean to sink the boot into Champion but you do not need to place absolute faith that these stats are a true reflection of what is going on.

Do these stats take account of the contests that take place near Jack that he's not part of?

If you'd never seen Peter Hudson play, you would have rated him a no hoper based on statistics. (Except for the one killer statistic: goals scored.)

Or put it another way: are you going to believe Champion Data, or your own lying eyes?

That North game near the end of the season. Ye gods. At times I wondered if he was even on the ground.

In no way shape or form is JW a leader in contested pressure in the forward line.

I like Jack and I prefer that he stays (and fulfills his potential).

But Champion Data and contested pressure stats? Sorry, they are wrong.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Mazer Rackham

[beelzebub 23,380]

8 minutes ago, DemonDaniel said:

I have a hunch, JW will stay at MFC now that it looks likely Port will sign Rockliff.

London to a brick he grows whiskers and dons blue hoops !!

[mo64 5,875]

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

If Jack goes for anything other than a like quality player  I'm calling bullshlt and from a long time ago.

 

Yeah, I think we'll struggle to find a 150 game player on another list that has only had 1 top 5 B&F finish in 9 years, in a team that hasn't played finals.