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2017 Post Mortem


dieter
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36 minutes ago, P-man said:

I hope they feel foolish. They blew it. Completely blew it.

There is no excusing that first quarter effort yesterday.

That probably sums it up as to the position we were in.

Granted we had a difficult year with a fairly tough fixture, 4 games in 18 days with interstate trips a prime example, a poor injury run, the worst suspension games loss in the AFL, an unbelievably shocking personal year for our ff and some narrow defeats and yet it came down to our last game. Let's examine that.

Aside from our co-captain, we had our strongest side in for the year, against a side missing 8 of their best players and playing for nothing but pride.

Playing on the G on a nice day, we needed to come with the strongest intensity we could muster, to show the Pies this game was ours.

We all know we are not a highly skilled side, actually ranked 16th for disposal efficiency in the AFL.

Our big weapon has been our desire and effort as we don't have the skill to dominate sides generally.

So what happens, in the first quarter we don't turn up. No tackles for 11 minutes and only 2 in the first 20. A lack of run to create space. One armed, half hearted attempts to tackle. A complete absence of pressure on the opposition. Then combine that with wilting disposal under pressure, which will always happen to a side that is poor in disposal in the first place and you have a flying start to the opposition, a 5 goal deficit and a real belief in the opposition that they have us. We did the same in the Hawthorn game. What did we learn, absolutely nothing. I don't want to hear that is a learning experience, as only idiots make the same mistakes more than once. To hear a player say we didn't apply pressure, in a do or die game, is just mind boggling. They are meant to be professional sportsmen, what is professional about that?

As P-Man said above, there is absolutely no excuse for that lack of effort in the first quarter. Forget the year, our finals were there for the taking against an undermanned, no incentive, youthful and inexperienced Pies side. I repeat there was no excuse for that, it just shouldn't have happened.

The players and to a lesser extent Coaches must share blame for allowing this to happen. NO EXCUSES. we were playing for our first finals in 11 years.

It tells me one thing for certain, some of the personnel must go.

Train harder, learn to tackle, get fitter, change the game plan, stop the handball at all costs game, whatever, but accept that some of those involved should not have another chance, they have lost the right. 

We need to accept that we aren't good enough and the list must be changed to improve. We have turnover experts who get possessions but kill us every week. The hard decisions must be made, these guys won't change. We have non tacklers and guys who refuse to apply pressure. This can't be tolerated if we expect to improve.

I hope missing the finals burns in the players guts, like it burns in ours.

 

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Just now, the rolling fog said:

Listening to SEN at the moment because I'm a gluton for punishment, and there's talk suggesting MFC supporters were booing Watts yesterday.

I didn't pick up on this, albeit in the member's - anyone else?

Im pretty sure it was the pies fans. I would be disappointed if it was melbourne fans. 

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24 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

What we needed in 2017 was for it to be 2018. And people have been saying it all year. The kids are just kids. Nothing to worry about. We'd still be the envy of most lists.

I see our list development being behind the Bulldogs by about 12-18 months.  They went backwards this year, but maybe being the hunted rather than the hunter had something to do with that.  I was hoping we'd make eighth and try to replicate what they did last year starting with Port, but to be honest it would have been difficult given how poorly we were playing.

I can't remember who it was, but there was a theory that we'd hit the wall at the back end of the season the way we did last year due to the fatigue of our list and that's clearly the way its looked.  There's also no doubt that we are still mentally not consistent enough, but I actually think that's been the product of the season as well.  Certainly I think for the first half of the year we improved massively on previous years, in terms of intensity and pressure. The second half of the year was far more patchy and similar to the past couple of seasons.  Injuries also helped rob us of a lot of momentum as well.

 I think Goodwin was certainly treating the year as a development year and clearly players like Weideman and O Mac have been gifted games to get senior experience into them. Unlike others I think both are tracking relatively well considering their age and positions. I see Petracca, Hogan and Oliver and I see elite talent.  We also have a core of younger players to support them.  

It would have been nice for Jones to have another shot at finals this year, but overall in terms of the ultimate prize it doesn't hurt to reinforce the playing group the consequence for not being 'switched on' in those crucial matches.

I think with a better run of injuries to our better players and a more favourable draw that if we continue the same rate of improvements that we have been, then next year will see a much more consistent year.

That doesn't mean that we don't have deficiencies to address.  Firstly in terms of outside run and secondly in defence.  Hopefully DE% will improve with further experience and practice with the game plan.  

Goodwin is all about competitiveness so I would expect some trades for those that don't measure up. 

In terms of the fixture for next year I hope we get North and Hawthorn in the first couple of rounds. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, the rolling fog said:

Listening to SEN at the moment because I'm a gluton for punishment, and there's talk suggesting MFC supporters were booing Watts yesterday.

I didn't pick up on this, albeit in the member's - anyone else?

WTF? It was the Pies fans booing I thought.

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This from the AFL website:

'How can the team that goes on the road and flogs Adelaide and beat West Coast turn up its toes twice against North Melbourne and then barely lay a tackle in the opening quarter against Collingwood on Saturday with it all to play for? That's the first question Simon Goodwin will address this off-season and there would seem to be no obvious answer.'

Exactly my thoughts.

 

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2 minutes ago, the rolling fog said:

Listening to SEN at the moment because I'm a gluton for punishment, and there's talk suggesting MFC supporters were booing Watts yesterday.

I didn't pick up on this, albeit in the member's - anyone else?

It was Collingwood supporters. The booing was coming from around their cheer squad area.

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3 minutes ago, the rolling fog said:

Listening to SEN at the moment because I'm a gluton for punishment, and there's talk suggesting MFC supporters were booing Watts yesterday.

I didn't pick up on this, albeit in the member's - anyone else?

I thought it was all Collingwood fans, but the volume of it made me believe there was some incident in-game. 

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About a third in, we were looking pretty irresistible with clearances and handballing forward.  Then we choked as expected.

The first part is the easy part.

Trade Watts - he consumes too much of the club's attention and is difficult to keep out as a number 1 pick.  Kennedy, old man Trengrove, KH all perform better at VFL.  If contractually (or otherwise) entitled to be picked, he should tried at CHB where we could drool at kicks I50.

Trade Bugg.  Troublesome and still has currency.

Offer and then delist if required Vince, King, Spencer, Lewis, Kent, Hulett, Garland, Trengrove

Rookie a ruckman from Box Hill.  That is where we got our good ones from.

Only recruit KPP's over 195 cm.  Hullett, Smith, Smith, Kielty are unlikely.

The second part is harder being an apology from the Board that we did not reach our full potential.  An acknowledgement from the football department that they were gooses in picking players which they could not trust.  The players don't gate-crash. They are picked without immaculate disposal in the VFL and reasonable in the AFL.  They are picked while not running to contests in either.

Revelations --

Hannan - looked good when filling in in the midfield

TMac up forward

Hunt

Rubbed our noses in it - 

Kent

Don't give up yet - OMac, Frost, Wagner

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28 minutes ago, ding said:

Goodwin will probably not win a premiership with MFC, He has no idea how to motivate a team to perform against opposition it SHOULD put to the sword. So far he has been a huge mistake.

Give me Northey or Danners any day of the week.

 

 

Why do these players need motivation? It is obvious isn't it? But they do they need direction. That should be Goodwins only job.

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1 minute ago, grazman said:

I see our list development being behind the Bulldogs by about 12-18 months.  

Good post.

While I agree with that, that sort of is a given. They won a flag last year and their mature players are the core... It's not like they were the Saints... bottomed out at the same time as us and climbed quickly. They've got some list structure questions to sort out, but will be better in 3 years than they are now or were last year. Them leapfrogging us next year wouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

But yes to everything else. The important bits and pieces are all there. And many more besides. Would you call Hibberd, Hunt, Lewis, Melksham, Frost, Jetta, Garlett, Harmes core? Possibly not. But all have done good things. Most would be walk up starts at all the other clubs.

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1 minute ago, JV7 said:

Nah we had some potential in those years... I just want to be bottom of the barrel again when their were no expectations & no let downs

And absolutely no one turned up for games and we were a laughing stock. We had potential but low expectation and more attractive football

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Our list is nowhere near good enough to be a true contender.  I'm not sure that we're much better or worse than about 10 clubs who occupy the guts of the ladder.  We could regress unless we greatly improve the list.

So, improve the list and we'll win more games.

You can't turn the proverbial into strawberry jam and we've got too many players on our list who are simply not good enough.  We lack height down back and in the forward line - it is a glaring weakness and it needs to be addressed pronto.  We also need another a decent back-up ruckman and players who possess real pace. 

We are too slow and we've been found out too many times when we're not on our game.  On top of that we had about 8 players who had average (or worse) season's.  Tyson,  Gawn,  Viney,  Watts,  Garlett,  Hogan,  Vince & Salem. In terms of consistent good performances,  not one of those 8 players did enough (in terms of expectations)  Injuries played a part of course but I'm more talking about actual outcomes.

The club needs to get to work on the list.  I'd be astonished if Goodwin & co didn't see things the same way. 

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Can only imagine what the like of David Schwarz and Garry Lyon will say on there show tomorrow.

I think tomorrow will be all about Melbourne. 

The thing is I look at the top 8 and think who would I want to see win it. There is really no one. 

May as well give the brownlow to Dusty now and cancel brownlow night to. 

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1 minute ago, Mike said:

This from the AFL website:

'How can the team that goes on the road and flogs Adelaide and beat West Coast turn up its toes twice against North Melbourne and then barely lay a tackle in the opening quarter against Collingwood on Saturday with it all to play for? That's the first question Simon Goodwin will address this off-season and there would seem to be no obvious answer.'

Exactly my thoughts.

 

Ill tell u where I'm at, at the risk of saying I have an ex association with the club!

We need to trade aggressively and get blokes that bleed MFC BLOOD!

 

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2 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Good post.

While I agree with that, that sort of is a given. They won a flag last year and their mature players are the core... It's not like they were the Saints... bottomed out at the same time as us and climbed quickly. They've got some list structure questions to sort out, but will be better in 3 years than they are now or were last year. Them leapfrogging us next year wouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

But yes to everything else. The important bits and pieces are all there. And many more besides. Would you call Hibberd, Hunt, Lewis, Melksham, Frost, Jetta, Garlett, Harmes core? Possibly not. But all have done good things. Most would be walk up starts at all the other clubs.

The unpredictability and pace of Frost was badly missed yesterday. He would have run off some of the slower big men of Collingwood and sent us forward instead of the panicked handballs or dinky kicks, that ended up as turnovers, close to their goal.

I think it was a mistake not playing him in the last two games.

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6 minutes ago, steve_f said:

Offer and then delist if required Vince, King, Spencer, Lewis,

I stopped reading right there.

Stupidest post I've read on here in a while.

Fair dinkum. I know everyone is upset. But you don't go blind when you're upset.

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Just now, Macca said:

Our list is nowhere near good enough to be a true contender.  I'm not sure that we're much better or worse than about 10 clubs who occupy the guts of the ladder.  We could regress unless we greatly improve the list.

So, improve the list and we'll win more games.

You can't turn the proverbial into strawberry jam and we've got too many players on our list who are simply not good enough.  We lack height down back and in the forward line - it is a glaring weakness and it needs to be addressed pronto.  We also need another a decent back-up ruckman and players who possess real pace. 

We are too slow and we've been found out too many times when we're not on our game.  On top of that we had about 8 players who had average (or worse) season's.  Tyson,  Gawn,  Viney,  Watts,  Garlett,  Hogan,  Vince & Salem. In terms of consistent good performances,  not one of those 8 players did enough (in terms of expectations)  Injuries played a part of course but I'm more talking about actual outcomes.

The club needs to get to work on the list.  I'd be astonished if Goodwin & co didn't see things the same way. 

Improve the list, but far from an overhaul please. The players need to know each other and care, we can't just keep replacing them

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7 minutes ago, steve_f said:

About a third in, we were looking pretty irresistible with clearances and handballing forward.  Then we choked as expected.

The first part is the easy part.

Trade Watts - he consumes too much of the club's attention and is difficult to keep out as a number 1 pick.  Kennedy, old man Trengrove, KH all perform better at VFL.  If contractually (or otherwise) entitled to be picked, he should tried at CHB where we could drool at kicks I50.

Trade Bugg.  Troublesome and still has currency.

Offer and then delist if required Vince, King, Spencer, Lewis, Kent, Hulett, Garland, Trengrove

Rookie a ruckman from Box Hill.  That is where we got our good ones from.

Only recruit KPP's over 195 cm.  Hullett, Smith, Smith, Kielty are unlikely.

The second part is harder being an apology from the Board that we did not reach our full potential.  An acknowledgement from the football department that they were gooses in picking players which they could not trust.  The players don't gate-crash. They are picked without immaculate disposal in the VFL and reasonable in the AFL.  They are picked while not running to contests in either.

Revelations --

Hannan - looked good when filling in in the midfield

TMac up forward

Hunt

Rubbed our noses in it - 

Kent

Don't give up yet - OMac, Frost, Wagner

Nar package Both Mc Donalds they are no good!

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