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2017 Post Mortem


dieter
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2 hours ago, Knuckles said:

Out of interest has anyone seen, read or listened to any constructive commentary from the so called AFL experts about where we need to improve. I have been trying to keep up with any media commentary and haven't come across anything other than the standard stuff about lack of tackling in the first quarter and so forth. I don't have Foxtel so I might have missed something there  

Its been a massive bug bear of mine for years, how these so called experts offer nothing more than a standard footy follower could tell me. Particularly when we were really bad in the Neeld years there was never anything analysis of where we need to focus our efforts to improve. It's pretty obvious they do next to no preparation and just really on group think. 

Light years behind the coverage of sports in the US and Europe. 

Unfortunately I've satintised myself from all media right now. But interested to hear if you do find anything 

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On 28/08/2017 at 10:58 AM, DSP said:

Supporters (some of them anyway) have been saying this for the last decade.

 

Its now the end of 2017 and we are still, STILL losing games we should win. And its not an abberation, it happens more often than not.

 

Its mental. Plain and simple. Call it desire. Or toughness. Whatever. We just dont have it. And its not good enough.

Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Hogan - these guys haven't been around for the last decade. Give them a chance to write their own history.

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On 28/08/2017 at 1:30 PM, Bay Riffin said:

best post ive read in a long time.

 

Exactly. we need to ditch this tradition and focus on the fact we should be the hungriest club in the AFL, to lead us to success.

I for the life of me don't know why we don't scrap and 'die on the pitch' like some sides do to get a result. We should have been smashing bodies on Saturday but didn't.

 

its lamentable and sickening to accept.

I agree but we do do it on occasion. We did it in the last quarter against Port, we did it for 4 quarters against the Dogs. We do scrap it's just that sometimes we shouldn't let it get to that stage (Carlton twice this year). 

They really need to look into a sports psychologist to figure out how to get in their heads and make sure they bring the same intensity regardless of the opposition. If you turn up and play your game and do the fundamentals the result will take care of itself. And you don't slack off just cos you've put up a 40 point buffer on the opposition. You keep grinding them into the dirt until you've racked up a cricket score. The time to rest is at the recovery session the next day. I don't how they can get that through the players heads, it seems it's not something the you get guys have to worry about. Viney definitely not, maybe he should be made sole captain after all.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I agree but we do do it on occasion. We did it in the last quarter against Port, we did it for 4 quarters against the Dogs. We do scrap it's just that sometimes we shouldn't let it get to that stage (Carlton twice this year). 

They really need to look into a sports psychologist to figure out how to get in their heads and make sure they bring the same intensity regardless of the opposition. If you turn up and play your game and do the fundamentals the result will take care of itself. And you don't slack off just cos you've put up a 40 point buffer on the opposition. You keep grinding them into the dirt until you've racked up a cricket score. The time to rest is at the recovery session the next day. I don't how they can get that through the players heads, it seems it's not something the you get guys have to worry about. Viney definitely not, maybe he should be made sole captain after all.

Forget the sports psychologist,  the coach is there to suitably motivate the players.  After all is said and done,  that's his job. 

And if certain players don't respond, drop them.  If they are repeat offenders, delist or trade.  Footy basics 101.

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Just now, Macca said:

Forget the sports psychologist,  the coach is there to suitably motivate the players.  After all is said and done,  that's his job. 

And if certain players don't respond, drop them.  If they are repeat offenders, delist or trade.  Footy basics 101.

The coach is there to devise a gameplan that can beat the opposition - I dunno I get what you're saying but there seems to be more to it than mere motivation, it seems like there needs to be some kind of group psychoanalysis as to why the team (with a few exceptions) can turn it up against weaker opposition time and again. It's got to the stage now where I will keep betting against us winning those games until we prove otherwise.

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On 28/08/2017 at 3:19 PM, Barney Rubble said:

My Post Mortem revolves around the Assistant Coaches.

Jade the Blade has been coaching our backline since Adam was a pup. What have they learned in 6 years????

I think he is now qualified as a grade 4 coach. Time he went somewhere else and stuffed their backline up.

Ben Mathews coaching Mid Field and Stoppages our biggest failing against good sides ( and also bad sides)

Our side is only as good as they are coached.

Our midfield performed extremely well while Gawn was injured, it was only once he returned we started to lose the midfield battle.

Edit agree about Rawlings though and Chaplin I'm not sold on either.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
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1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The coach is there to devise a gameplan that can beat the opposition - I dunno I get what you're saying but there seems to be more to it than mere motivation, it seems like there needs to be some kind of group psychoanalysis as to why the team (with a few exceptions) can turn it up against weaker opposition time and again. It's got to the stage now where I will keep betting against us winning those games until we prove otherwise.

Well,  I'm old school Gonzo so I see the coach motivating the players as one of his main roles.  Along with devising a game plan and various other tasks & needs.

I get your frustration but I've a strong feeling that Goodwin will be spending the next weeks/month having a very close look at the list. 

I'd be surprised if there aren't at least a few casualties.  We need to make changes in order to give ourselves a chance to get much better. 

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Our midfield performed extremely well while Gawn was injured, it was only once he returned we started to lose the midfield battle.

Which coincided with our two main clearance players, Jones and Viney, being injured.

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13 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Aside from the obvious disappointment, the key lessons from the year IMO are:

1.       Tom McDonald is a key forward. His marking and goal kicking is fantastic, as is his pressure when the ball hits the ground, and we should be aiming for 50 goals out of him next year.

2.       Oscar McDonald will make it. The jury was out for me at the start of the year, but I think he improved and his kicking is not the liability that others feel it is. He just needs to put on another 5kg in the gym.

3.       Dom Tyson is a butcher. His kicking is terrible and he is borderline best 22.

4.       Our midfield is too inside and lacks skill and pace on the outside. Our most important task over the offseason is to recruit a wingman like Isaac Smith, Josh Kelly, Higgins or Sidebottom.

5.       Melksham is a bona fide AFL player.

6.       Hibberd was a fantastic pick up.

7.       Petracca will be a gun, but needs to build a tank and drop 2-3kg.

8.       Gawn needs to toughen up and throw his weight around.

9.       Harmes and ANB made progress but Stretch has gone backwards.

10.   Vince is a tagger not a backman.

Good post, 100% about TMac. I'd have him deep forward with Hogan further upfield. 

Disagree on Vince though, he's finished.

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3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well,  I'm old school Gonzo so I see the coach motivating the players as one of his main roles.  Along with devising a game plan and various other tasks & needs.

I get your frustration but I've a strong feeling that Goodwin will be spending the next weeks/month having a very close look at the list. 

I'd be surprised if there aren't at least a few casualties.  We need to make changes in order to give ourselves a chance to get much better. 

No doubt, wouldn't surprise me if Watts and Tyson for starters were shopped around to see what they might be worth on the market.

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1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Which coincided with our two main clearance players, Jones and Viney, being injured.

Very true. We did seem to perform well with Pedersen/TMac as ruck though as we were able to be the hunter more, giving the opposition first use and then attacking them while also having an extra big bodied "midfielder" which Gawn can do but didn't as much upon his return as he did last year. 

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7 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

Has anyone managed to find closure and moved on from the heartache?

I`m still filthy!

Gonna take me until after finals are well finished to get over that absolutely disgraceful insipid spineless performance on Saturday, we've had some real disappointments over the last decade but that was far and away the most disappointing. Still very bloody angry and can't get over how mentally weak some of our players are, TMac, Vince, Gawn to name three who should be taking a good hard look at themselves. Gawn has been drinking his own bathwater for last 12 months and gotten way ahead of him self, Vince I'm afraid is finished and TMac???does some ridiculously stupid stuff. There are 2-3 others, Jones disposal is woeful. Luckily the ones who let us down are not the younger brigade, it was those who are 25+ so we still have a good future.

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Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

No doubt, wouldn't surprise me if Watts and Tyson for starters were shopped around to see what they might be worth on the market.

Those players who we had expectations for and who underperformed will come under the microscope.  That includes players who haven't come on as expected and those who haven't progressed much past C or C+ standard.

Obviously, we won't and don't have a need to dispense with 12-14 players as we've done in the recent past, but it's my hope that the club do make a median amount of changes to the list. 

We may need to be quite creative as we've been more recently,  but that's ok.  I'm one to move on quickly - the playing of the games for this season is over.  It's time to plan for next season.

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1 minute ago, Macca said:

Those players who we had expectations for and who underperformed will come under the microscope.  That includes players who haven't come on as expected and those who haven't progressed much past C or C+ standard.

Obviously, we won't and don't have a need to dispense with 12-14 players as we've done in the recent past, but it's my hope that the club do make a median amount of changes to the list. 

We may need to be quite creative as we've been more recently,  but that's ok.  I'm one to move on quickly - the playing of the games for this season is over.  It's time to plan for next season.

Without looking at contract status Lumumba, Trengove, Kennedy definite outs, Spencer likely as is Frost.

JKH should be gone but if I recall he signed a contract extension. White, Garland, Wagner and Vince should all be on the chopping block. That's a quarter of the list right there (White may be a rookie?)

Then you've got guys like Watts and Tyson who might be thrown up as trade bait. So JKH, Wagner and Vince probably stay and the others get cleared out or see what we can get for them.

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Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Without looking at contract status Lumumba, Trengove, Kennedy definite outs, Spencer likely as is Frost.

JKH should be gone but if I recall he signed a contract extension. White, Garland, Wagner and Vince should all be on the chopping block. That's a quarter of the list right there (White may be a rookie?)

Then you've got guys like Watts and Tyson who might be thrown up as trade bait. So JKH, Wagner and Vince probably stay and the others get cleared out or see what we can get for them.

I reckon we'll make 7-9 changes to the primary list ... with specific needs in mind. Any more than that and you're just shuffling the deck chairs. 

However, the caveat is that we're going to have to be quite creative to get what we need (want?)  I'm more looking at what type of players we need to bring in.

And sometimes there's a need to give up something to get something.  We need pace, skill & height.

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I am surprised and disappointed that the finger continues to be pointed just at the players.  For the second successive year we have had the opportunity to make the Finals and have failed.  No one seems to be asking who picks the teams, who creates the gameplan, whose job is it to make sure that the selected players have the right mindset, who is responsible for ensuring that the selected players have the required skills?

I cannot recall one occasion where any responsibility for our failures has been sheeted home to the Football Department and accepted by Goodwin as a significant part of the problem.  No coaches are ever publicly humiliated by dropping them to Casey for non-performance.  It would be appropriate for them (and perhaps beneficial to the playing group) to publicly accept their part in this latest disappointment.  

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Not sure about the rest of you but I can't believe how much what happened over weekend has turned me off footy, I usually watch all the footy shows and love watching finals but right now I just don't want to watch anything and would be happy if the grand final was tommorow, I'm still too angry to think anything AFL I doubt I will get over what happened till season kicks off next year it's going to be a long summer 

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2 hours ago, Jimcor2 said:

I am surprised and disappointed that the finger continues to be pointed just at the players.  For the second successive year we have had the opportunity to make the Finals and have failed.  No one seems to be asking who picks the teams, who creates the gameplan, whose job is it to make sure that the selected players have the right mindset, who is responsible for ensuring that the selected players have the required skills?

I cannot recall one occasion where any responsibility for our failures has been sheeted home to the Football Department and accepted by Goodwin as a significant part of the problem.  No coaches are ever publicly humiliated by dropping them to Casey for non-performance.  It would be appropriate for them (and perhaps beneficial to the playing group) to publicly accept their part in this latest disappointment.  

But ultimately it is the players in the ground who have to play smart, play hard and win the bloody game that must be won!

They, collectively, let themselves, the club and most importantly the supporters down massively on Saturday.

Absolutely no excuses.  Opposition struggling, everything to gain by winning.......pfffffft!   Had it been against a top team it would perhaps have been understandable though not necessarily excusable. 

Repeatably and predictably, our teams go out when playing 'inferior' teams thinking it will be an easy romp in the park, and repeatedly and predictably either lose or fail to kill.  It is ingrained and in my mind is a sign of misplaced pseudo-arrogance. How it can be stemmed is way beyond me, but stemmed it must be. 

The team as a whole is just weak minded.  

Edited by monoccular
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6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

No doubt, wouldn't surprise me if Watts and Tyson for starters were shopped around to see what they might be worth on the market.

WATTS is worth jack Sh!t they tried to pizz him off for the last two years.

Why dont we just give him away make him somebody elses problem. I really think football isn't his gig.

Other proper clubs wouldnt put up with him.

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11 hours ago, Knuckles said:

Out of interest has anyone seen, read or listened to any constructive commentary from the so called AFL experts about where we need to improve. I have been trying to keep up with any media commentary and haven't come across anything other than the standard stuff about lack of tackling in the first quarter and so forth. I don't have Foxtel so I might have missed something there  

Its been a massive bug bear of mine for years, how these so called experts offer nothing more than a standard footy follower could tell me. Particularly when we were really bad in the Neeld years there was never anything analysis of where we need to focus our efforts to improve. It's pretty obvious they do next to no preparation and just really on group think. 

Light years behind the coverage of sports in the US and Europe. 

Apparently we handball too much 

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