Casey Demons v Essendon VFL

[Watts the matter 1,235]

5 minutes ago, Dante said:

Demonland Drunkin, that's what we do to kids that dont star from their first game, this site is littered with posters who've made premature and wrong predictions about our young kids. It's a rush to declare, "I was the first one who picked he'd be no good".

Weed will be ok, he'shown enough indicate he'll be a player, but he's not kicking 6 a week in the ones so he's no good, that mind you is the opinion of quite a few who haven't seen him play much at all.  They confuse him with Lucas Cook.

 

Just as many people do the opposite and tell you Weideman will be a good/great player. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

You have said he has shown enough to indicate he will be a player. Based on what? 

He has shown some some glimpses but many, including myself, question his role at AFL level and ability to work in forward line with Hogan, who also offers very little forward pressure. 

 

[Dante 2,739]

9 hours ago, old dee said:

With good reason DJ.

I have seen little yet to suggest he is AFL quality. He has I guess a couple of years. I am not holding my breath because I don't see much above an average VFL player.

Tell me Old, of the current regular Melbourne first players, are there any you had previously written off and that have surprised you? 

I know you are usually optimistic and upbeat about our prospects and list, but are there any that have slipped your guard? 

 

[old dee 23,799]

1 minute ago, Dante said:

Tell me Old, of the current regular Melbourne first players, are there any you had previously written off and that have surprised you? 

I know you are usually optimistic and upbeat about our prospects and list, but are there any that have slipped your guard? 

 

ANB is the only one that comes to mind.

The thing about high draft picks is there is a lot of expectation. With others further into the draft I don't expect a lot. So they don't get the same scrutiny. 

Players in the top ten picks should show some positive signs in the first couple of years they don't imo have to be world beaters but you need to see positive things happening at a lower level.  A lot of top ten picks don't turn into good players at senior level it is a fact of life. So just because we have a top ten pick does not guarantee he will be a good player. 

[Dante 2,739]

8 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Just as many people do the opposite and tell you Weideman will be a good/great player. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

You have said he has shown enough to indicate he will be a player. Based on what? 

He has shown some some glimpses but many, including myself, question his role at AFL level and ability to work in forward line with Hogan, who also offers very little forward pressure. 

 

Based on the skill he's shown so far and the fact he's fearless in his attack on the ball, the small forwards can apply tne pressure you talk about, he will help bring the ball to the ground.  

He will bulk up and will have much more effect when he does, but until then, I'll back the judgment of the football department as to where they play him. 

[Dante 2,739]

21 minutes ago, old dee said:

ANB is the only one that comes to mind.

The thing about high draft picks is there is a lot of expectation. With others further into the draft I don't expect a lot. So they don't get the same scrutiny. 

Players in the top ten picks should show some positive signs in the first couple of years they don't imo have to be world beaters but you need to see positive things happening at a lower level.  A lot of top ten picks don't turn into good players at senior level it is a fact of life. So just because we have a top ten pick does not guarantee he will be a good player. 

Come on Old, there are others, didn't you write of Nev, several times? 

What's the draft position got to do with it and where does it become inconsequential, over pick ten, second round, third round? 

Weed didn't play a lot of football in the year he was drafted due to injury, he played a few games last year and a few this year, at senior level and showed he's not ready for it as yet. Mind you Oscar wasn't either, early this year, the posters here were screaming for him to go.

He's not Lucas Cook Old, give him a chance to at least get his body right for AFL football before you write him off. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Dante

[Deestroy All 14,266]

Young key forwards are a mixed bag. And playing in the hardest position to make consistent impact doesn't help. 

Patton looked like a dinosaur at early stages, couldn't get near it. Now he's smashed a few games and looks set to be a player.

Boyd looked promising, has done nothing. (Yeah yeah grand final blah blah.)

McCartin was a number 1 pick. Hasn't got near it. For various reasons. 

Hogan is a freak and been a man since primary school. Still has flaws  

Daniher is an athletic freak. Still has flaws  

They're just a mixed bag. And they take time and development no matter how good or bad they are early days. 

The promising thing about Weed is he has shown glimpses of everything. Every facet of the game he has shown he can do it. 

Showed great decision making and link up play in his first game, neat skills. 

Showed defensive pressure and hardness against the Crows. 

Showed contested marking and long accurate goal kicking against Box Hill. 

He needs a tank, strength, and for it to mentally click. Those things take time for most tall kids. 

Cool your jets. 

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

weid reads the play beautifully, kicks like a mule, has a great attitude, works hard at ground level and is just a smidge away from clunking those marks he goes for

the one that really stands out to me is stretch - 13 tackles

thirteen! thirteeeeeeeeeeen!!

impressive numbers to go with 22 possessions

[bandicoot 1,395]

On 23/07/2017 at 10:16 PM, Adzman said:

Weeds is a mystery wrapped in a riddle.Not ideal conditions for a big, but his stats suggest he wasn't at his best this week. Fingers crossed he can finish the year with a bang.

No mystery... he has just turned 20 and is growing into his body. Give him another 1-2 seasons

[old dee 23,799]

7 hours ago, Dante said:

Come on Old, there are others, didn't you write of Nev, several times? 

What's the draft position got to do with it and where does it become inconsequential, over pick ten, second round, third round? 

Weed didn't play a lot of football in the year he was drafted due to injury, he played a few games last year and a few this year, at senior level and showed he's not ready for it as yet. Mind you Oscar wasn't either, early this year, the posters here were screaming for him to go.

He's not Lucas Cook Old, give him a chance to at least get his body right for AFL football before you write him off. 

I think you are mistaken Dante on Jetta. I don't believe I did. I remember writing a glowing piece on him playing for Casey at windy hill. You may be thinking of Bennel. Now there was a failure of the highest order. I also thought you were referring to the lastest crop. 

Back to the Weid. Happy to be proved wrong but the jury is well and truely out for me.

[rjay 24,959]

11 minutes ago, old dee said:

I think you are mistaken Dante on Jetta. I don't believe I did. I remember writing a glowing piece on him playing for Casey at windy hill. You may be thinking of Bennel. Now there was a failure of the highest order. I also thought you were referring to the lastest crop. 

Back to the Weid. Happy to be proved wrong but the jury is well and truely out for me.

Yes 'old dee', you were a huge Bennel fan....not.

I think we can give Weed a bit more time though, I'm still not sold either but he does have some really good qualities.

Lets hope he puts it together.

[Whispering_Jack 30,235]

When looking at a player's performances at VFL level (especially key forwards) it's worth noting that one of the factors that can have an influence on form is the relative strength of the side.

Last year when Melbourne had a relatively short injury list, we saw a very strong Casey Scorpions team with plenty of experience and regularly fielding 17 or 18 MFC listed players. A few weeks ago the Casey Demons had only 9 MFC players in the team against Richmond VFL that had 18 players from its AFL list. Of the nine MFC players only 3 had played this year at AFL level.

The lack of opportunity for a full forward in such a team is fairly obvious (Casey kicked 1 goal in the first half) and I would fully expect this to impact on his game. At times, Weideman has been called on to play on the ball to get him more involved in the game so not every week is going to be like the Box Hill game which took place just before our recent spate of injuries forced the lower AFL listed numbers at Casey. It's all part of what should be a learning experience for apprentices  and it won't hurt the Weed in the long run.

[old dee 23,799]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Yes 'old dee', you were a huge Bennel fan....not.

I think we can give Weed a bit more time though, I'm still not sold either but he does have some really good qualities.

Lets hope he puts it together.

I have not written him off rjay I am just not seeing a future 200 gamer at the moment. As you say he has a couple of years.

i must say I thought we did him no favours playing him consistently in the first half of the year when he was clearly not a senior talent. IMO that has ruined his 2017 season. 

[Dante 2,739]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

I have not written him off rjay I am just not seeing a future 200 gamer at the moment. As you say he has a couple of years.

i must say I thought we did him no favours playing him consistently in the first half of the year when he was clearly not a senior talent. IMO that has ruined his 2017 season. 

I have a contrary view to that, I think playing him at the highest level shows Weed what's needed of him to enable him to succeed. 

This is not the old MFC Old, we have given him a look and we can now drop him back to the lower level and let him develop, he doesn't have to be the saviour as many before him have. 

[SFebes 4,884]

21 hours ago, Drunkn167 said:

Are you seriously trying to compare Weids and Hogan!? They are completely different players development wise. Jesse has been built like a man since he was 16 and has been playing senior footy since he was 17. Plus he is just an absolute freak.

Sammy is a later bloomer, you can tell that just by looking at their physiques. Give Sam another 2 or so seasons for his body to get to Hogans level and then we can have this discussion.

Late bloomer? He only just turned 20!

[bandicoot 1,395]

4 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Late bloomer? He only just turned 20!

?

[old dee 23,799]

51 minutes ago, Dante said:

I have a contrary view to that, I think playing him at the highest level shows Weed what's needed of him to enable him to succeed. 

This is not the old MFC Old, we have given him a look and we can now drop him back to the lower level and let him develop, he doesn't have to be the saviour as many before him have. 

I don't call seven games in a row when he was struggling to get a kick "a look". I call it throwing him to the wolves.

No fear of that happening in 2017 Dante

Edited July 25, 2017 by old dee

[Dante 2,739]

6 minutes ago, old dee said:

I don't call seven games in a row when he was struggling to get a kick "a look". I call it throwing him to the wolves.

No fear of that happening in 2017 Dante

We have to agree to disagree Old, I'm going all positive over the Dees now, no more negative, I've had enough of that. We are finally in good hands and I'm going to trust the ones in charge to get it right, who knows they may get us that elusive flag before we leave this World. 

They have shown great faith in the players they've selected and I think they are right this time. 

[old dee 23,799]

1 hour ago, Dante said:

We have to agree to disagree Old, I'm going all positive over the Dees now, no more negative, I've had enough of that. We are finally in good hands and I'm going to trust the ones in charge to get it right, who knows they may get us that elusive flag before we leave this World. 

They have shown great faith in the players they've selected and I think they are right this time. 

No one is infallible.

As always time will tell Dante

Edited July 25, 2017 by old dee

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

On 7/23/2017 at 10:38 PM, old dee said:

Not much if he was not an MFC player he would be in the development league.

How many times have you seen him play live at Casey Old Dee?

[DeeZone 9,874]

Thanks Drunkn167 and all other posters another important win for Casey, great that Gus got through the game so well. Go Casey!!!

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

On 7/24/2017 at 11:07 PM, old dee said:

 

Hey Old Dee, did you miss my question or are you just dodging it?

How many times have you seen Weideman play live at Casey.  I'm just trying to put context around your comment that if he wasn't an MFC player he'd be playing in the Development League. 

On face value that seemed an extravagant call but not if you've seen him regularly.

Care to answer me and explain your view?

[old dee 23,799]

1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Hey Old Dee, did you miss my question or are you just dodging it?

How many times have you seen Weideman play live at Casey.  I'm just trying to put context around your comment that if he wasn't an MFC player he'd be playing in the Development League. 

On face value that seemed an extravagant call but not if you've seen him regularly.

Care to answer me and explain your view?

I am not dodging it I am sending you a pm

[Deestroy All 14,266]

8 hours ago, old dee said:

I am not dodging it I am sending you a pm

Booooo

[george_on_the_outer 7,610]

Interesting to read Justin Plapps comments this week:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-07-26/vfl-player-review-round-14

especially around Josh Wagner:

Josh Wagner: He had 24 disposals, including 11 contested possessions, four clearances and nine tackles. Josh played a different role on the weekend. He played more of an inside mid and I felt he adapted to the role well. Josh plays with a lot of intensity and his ability to win the contested ball was something that really stood out. It’s not easy being thrown into new roles, but it was something that he accepted really well.......

I would have never thought Wagner could play "inside mid", but it is truly remarkable how our coaching team are finding gems and developing players that we as supporters would not have thought possible.

I'm also thinking we will see Corey Maynard in the seniors in the not too distant future if he keeps up his contested work in the middle. 

[junk 342]

Good to see Wagner play a different role. Most of us at some time have picked out a player that we deemed as useless only to be wrong.However most of us were correct when singling out players from the Neeld era.Paul Roos got rid of most of them.