List Structure: What do we actually need?

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

I am all for improving the list, but prefer the FD to drive that, I checked with Goody

 

Saty who other than the FD will drive it?  Isn't the fun of a fan forum trying to anticipate what they'll do and discuss options?

Nobody here is silly enough to think the FD is influenced by what is said here.

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

18 hours ago, Garbo said:

Would Jasper Pittard be worth picking up, he is a free agent and wouldn't cost much salary wise, and he would certainly add more depth to the list, I wouldn't expect him to play many unless we have injures but would be handy as a just in case type

Doubt someone like that would leave to become a back-up player, I know he's out of their team at the moment, but surely he'd prefer to go somewhere to be guaranteed games. If he came to us, it'd be on the back of a promise to get Hunt into the middle so he take's his spot. 

[What 18,810]

19 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Don't read what I post, I don't read yours anymore, nobody is forcing you,

If you think that is an insult, you need to get out more

A question was asked, I offered an opinion, let me think, publuc forum

I get attacked coz I refuse to follow rhe 'company' line, if I don't think it is the correct line to follow, I actually thought I was being delusionak thinking that, but perhaps not

I don't think we have a real weakness in our list, most of the 'stars' are locked away and I don't think Goodwin with his team first ethic would pay overs to attract the likes of Kelly, but who knows

The irony in that comment is astonishing. You are the very definition of a company man towing the company line.

Every other poster here has their own ideas and views, you just parrot what the club does and says and attack others for discussing footy and having their own opinion.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Petraccattack

[What 18,810]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-26/bernie-vince-well-placed-for-new-deal-at-demons

[Freak 100]

in terms of the draft, i think we would be keen on Jack Higgins. I think Jason Taylor would love his work ethic.

He is small but skilful,  and has the pace our midfield needs.  I have a strong feeling he will be in the red and blue if we dont trade our pick away.

[JackDeMan 42]

We need a key defender, someone who can play on the big forwards like Tex Walker, Joe Daniher, Patton (GWS), Lynch (Gold Coast), Kennedy (West Coast) and Roughie - crikey there's plenty of them. Oscar and Frosty are not quite big enough, and Tommy Mac has had a bit of trouble with these big forwards in the past, but now looks really good in the forward line. Jake Lever is the man - reads the play brilliantly, out of contract with Adelaide, refusing to re-sign until the end of the season, and a Vic.

Not sure how we can do the deal though - probably a first round pick plus a good player. 

Other than that, we try to just keep picking up players with potential and hopefully turn them into really good players - Bayley Fritsch at Casey Demons comes to mind - could be a small forward support to Jeff in the forward line.

[PaulRB 5,917]

2 minutes ago, JackDeMan said:

We need a key defender, someone who can play on the big forwards like Tex Walker, Joe Daniher, Patton (GWS), Lynch (Gold Coast), Kennedy (West Coast) and Roughie - crikey there's plenty of them. Oscar and Frosty are not quite big enough, and Tommy Mac has had a bit of trouble with these big forwards in the past, but now looks really good in the forward line. Jake Lever is the man - reads the play brilliantly, out of contract with Adelaide, refusing to re-sign until the end of the season, and a Vic.

Not sure how we can do the deal though - probably a first round pick plus a good player. 

Other than that, we try to just keep picking up players with potential and hopefully turn them into really good players - Bayley Fritsch at Casey Demons comes to mind - could be a small forward support to Jeff in the forward line.

I'm not convinced we need another tall back, given we've played TMac up forward for the past couple of months and not lost a lot down back, and with Weideman to mature and provide another tall forward, potentially pushing Tom back to CHF... just not convinced joining the rush to get Lever is the right move.

What we know is that over the next 2-3 we'll lose Vince, Lewis and Jones will be close, so I'd be having a tilt at Kelly or another tough mid/HBF with speed and elite footskills.

I too like Bayley Fritsch, reminds me of Robbie, curious as to the size of his engine as VFL level is far less punishing athletically and he seems to loiter in the forward line rather than pressing into defence and streaming back to goals aka Garlett, etc... Great skills, also wonder about his defensive steel.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

3 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

The irony in that comment is astonishing. You are the very definition of a company man towing the company line.

Every other poster here has their own ideas and views, you just parrot what the club does and says and attack others for discussing footy and having their own opinion.

I disagree with a lot of the ideas and views,  Melbourne supporters have a long history of being precious whingers, a lot of the posts confirm that

I have a right to an opinion also, you seem to have any issue with thatl

This topic is about list structure, any input on that, I have posted mine, where is yours, or afraid of somebody disageeing with it

 

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

24 minutes ago, JackDeMan said:

We need a key defender, someone who can play on the big forwards like Tex Walker, Joe Daniher, Patton (GWS), Lynch (Gold Coast), Kennedy (West Coast) and Roughie - crikey there's plenty of them. Oscar and Frosty are not quite big enough, and Tommy Mac has had a bit of trouble with these big forwards in the past, but now looks really good in the forward line. Jake Lever is the man - reads the play brilliantly, out of contract with Adelaide, refusing to re-sign until the end of the season, and a Vic.

Not sure how we can do the deal though - probably a first round pick plus a good player. 

Other than that, we try to just keep picking up players with potential and hopefully turn them into really good players - Bayley Fritsch at Casey Demons comes to mind - could be a small forward support to Jeff in the forward line.

Omac going to stop growing then?

You do know Lever is lighter than both Omac and Frosty both have added a few kilos

Besides which Talia takes the big forwards

Edited July 26, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[JackDeMan 42]

6 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Omac going to stop growing then?

You do know Lever is lighter than both Omac and Frosty

Jake Lever is on the market, and Melbourne is one of 3 or 4 clubs after him, from what I have read. There must be a good reason for that, and I believe it is because he is a tall defender who is also a brilliant reader of the play, and a great high mark.

I just don't feel comfortable watching Oscar and Frosty against the big forwards - Walker monstered us in Darwin (in my view, of course). My point is about adding another key defender - I am not suggesting trading out Oscar or Frosty - I think they have both improved a lot this year.

[Demons1858 1,658]

5 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I actually put that in my post, lack of comprehension on your part or only interested in criticising

I am all for improving the list, but prefer the FD to drive that, I checked with Goody

Like I said don't read my posts, I don't care

I'm pretty sure Goody (as great a bloke as he probably is and as polite as he has been to supporters like you that ask annoying questions he knows he can't disclose the answers to) isn't going to tell you they are working feverishly to secure Lever and the like. Likewise I'm pretty sure he didn't disclose negotiations with Lewis to you either.

But hey you keep believing that the list is close to perfect (with the exception of a 'godfather' trade) and that Goody tells you everything the club is planning. We may as well shut down our list management team right now given the strength of our list. Can you let Goody know

 

[Skuit 9,165]

1 hour ago, JackDeMan said:

We need a key defender, someone who can play on the big forwards like Tex Walker, Joe Daniher, Patton (GWS), Lynch (Gold Coast), Kennedy (West Coast) and Roughie - crikey there's plenty of them. Oscar and Frosty are not quite big enough, and Tommy Mac has had a bit of trouble with these big forwards in the past, but now looks really good in the forward line. Jake Lever is the man - reads the play brilliantly, out of contract with Adelaide, refusing to re-sign until the end of the season, and a Vic.

 

That was Lynden, not Lever. With our team defence, we need someone who can reliably drift across and spoil or mark in front of the big forwards like Tex et al - as well as display poise and clean foot-skills when rebounding. That would be Lever, not Lynden, and not Oscar or Frost.

[JackDeMan 42]

2 minutes ago, Skuit said:

That was Lynden, not Lever. With our team defence, we need someone who can reliably drift across and spoil or mark in front of the big forwards like Tex et al - as well as display poise and clean foot-skills when rebounding. That would be Lever, not Lynden, and not Oscar or Frost.

Agree with everything you say, except your first sentence?? Lynden's not coming back. Had to check my post to see if I mentioned him,.

BTW, big fan of Frosty's speed and team ethic. See what he did helping out Nev Jetta at the end of the game against Carlton? Nev got all the plaudits, but that was a great example of team defence by both players. Adding Lever to that mix would be huge, I reckon.

[Skuit 9,165]

1 minute ago, JackDeMan said:

Agree with everything you say, except your first sentence?? Lynden's not coming back. Had to check my post to see if I mentioned him,.

BTW, big fan of Frosty's speed and team ethic. See what he did helping out Nev Jetta at the end of the game against Carlton? Nev got all the plaudits, but that was a great example of team defence by both players. Adding Lever to that mix would be huge, I reckon.

I meant in the sense that we had the model you speak of, but we cut him loose as it's not the way we're looking to solve the problem. Lever is the answer, but it's a different type of solution. 

[JackDeMan 42]

5 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I meant in the sense that we had the model you speak of, but we cut him loose as it's not the way we're looking to solve the problem. Lever is the answer, but it's a different type of solution. 

Thanks - understand now - but I think Lever is a much better than Lynden was at his best. Remember Lynden started as a forward, and did not go back until quite late in his career. 

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

58 minutes ago, JackDeMan said:

Jake Lever is on the market, and Melbourne is one of 3 or 4 clubs after him, from what I have read. There must be a good reason for that, and I believe it is because he is a tall defender who is also a brilliant reader of the play, and a great high mark.

I just don't feel comfortable watching Oscar and Frosty against the big forwards - Walker monstered us in Darwin (in my view, of course). My point is about adding another key defender - I am not suggesting trading out Oscar or Frosty - I think they have both improved a lot this year.

Walker monstered us coz we didn't block running channels and gave their midfield an armchair ride to pick out leading forwards

[Deespicable 2,541]

4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Walker monstered us coz we didn't block running channels and gave their midfield an armchair ride to pick out leading forwards

Saty, go to bed now please.

You need to report back tomorrow on how Gawny looks at training.

You also need to give others a go at this topic.

Thanks

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

35 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

I'm pretty sure Goody (as great a bloke as he probably is and as polite as he has been to supporters like you that ask annoying questions he knows he can't disclose the answers to) isn't going to tell you they are working feverishly to secure Lever and the like. Likewise I'm pretty sure he didn't disclose negotiations with Lewis to you either.

But hey you keep believing that the list is close to perfect (with the exception of a 'godfather' trade) and that Goody tells you everything the club is planning. We may as well shut down our list management team right now given the strength of our list. Can you let Goody know

 

It was a joke

I would like to see Lever without Talia next to him, 

Seem to remember last year Demonland wetting themselves over Barass, he's had a great yeat hasn't he

 

[Diamond_Jim 11,727]

I remember looking at our list after the GF loss in 2000 and thinking there was little that needed improvement.

How wrong could one be. All lists can be strengthened especially at that 18-30 player level.

On another note however I cannot remember a time when we had so many potential A graders (perhaps when Lyon, Schwartz and Neitz were at their best) but the likes of Hogan, Oliver, Petracca and Gawn are if they live up to expectations the types of players one can build a team around.

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

Since Roos we have recruited competitive players; exactly what we needed.  But many/most have poor disposal by hand and especially by foot. That is easily exploited by a well drilled opposition.

10-12 years ago the Hawks actively recruited players who were very good or excellent kicks, even better if they were left footed.  They took the view that they can teach aggression to players who have the right skills.  Four flags were the result.

Lots of people on here go gaga over high stats and toughness.  They are really important but not much good if we don't get value or impact from the work as we don't retain possession or use enormous energy to get it back so it is very difficult to control the tempo of a game.   Hence the bag of consecutive goals kicked against us on a regular basis.

I know we are young and inexperienced but all (bar Oliver) are now into their 3rd season at least and if they don't inherently have the disposal skills I don't think they can be taught to the required standard. 

Right now I feel our team doesn't have the right balance of skill sets.  Tough and aggressive, yes.  Accurate disposal skills, no (with maybe 2 or 3 exceptions). 

Those players are like gold but I don't know where they will come from.  We need to take a leaf out of Hawthorn's recruiting manual but unfortunately, re-balancing the skill set won't happen overnight. 

Edit: These comments aren't about the last few weeks - IMO it is a flaw in the make up of the team.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[jumbo returns 6,486]

We need:

A fit and firing Jesse Hogan

A fit and firing Angus Brayshaw 

A Banyule/Heidelberg type build player akin to the McGovern brothers

[Willmoy1947 3,769]

On 7/26/2017 at 5:41 PM, Satyriconhome said:

I disagree with a lot of the ideas and views,  Melbourne supporters have a long history of being precious whingers, a lot of the posts confirm that

I have a right to an opinion also, you seem to have any issue with thatl

This topic is about list structure, any input on that, I have posted mine, where is yours, or afraid of somebody disageeing with it

 

In my opinion our Team has never appeared to be more confused and disconcerted by the Umpiring and how it appears to change/morph throughout many of ours (in particular) games.

I don't get responses to my questions all the time , but i respect your opinion and would like it this time.

Could you tell me if there is something of concern that you have picked up on and that can be divulged? 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

We need:

A fit and firing Jesse Hogan

A fit and firing Angus Brayshaw 

A Banyule/Heidelberg type build player akin to the McGovern brothers

To go with this, we need some continuity in our side.  We've had to adapt to playing without much of our starting midfield, do without a proper ruckman for almost two months, take our best defender out of the backline and then adapt to playing without Jesse Hogan and Jack Watts. You could argue that the season has caught up with us a bit over the last two weeks.

I'll be hugely disappointed to miss finals IF that happens, but at the same time I'm excited to see us get another pre-season under our belt and hopefully get our list healthy again.

[DV8 2,271]

On 7/26/2017 at 5:41 PM, Satyriconhome said:

I disagree with a lot of the ideas and views,  Melbourne supporters have a long history of being precious whingers, a lot of the posts confirm that

I have a right to an opinion also, you seem to have any issue with thatl

This topic is about list structure, any input on that, I have posted mine, where is yours, or afraid of somebody disageeing with it

 

some precious whingers.

 

So kettle or pot satyr?

[DV8 2,271]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Since Roos we have recruited competitive players; exactly what we needed.  But many/most have poor disposal by hand and especially by foot. That is easily exploited by a well drilled opposition.

10-12 years ago the Hawks actively recruited players who were very good or excellent kicks, even better if they were left footed.  They took the view that they can teach aggression to players who have the right skills.  Four flags were the result.

Lots of people on here go gaga over high stats and toughness.  They are really important but not much good if we don't get value or impact from the work as we don't retain possession or use enormous energy to get it back so it is very difficult to control the tempo of a game.   Hence the bag of consecutive goals kicked against us on a regular basis.

I know we are young and inexperienced but all (bar Oliver) are now into their 3rd season at least and if they don't inherently have the disposal skills I don't think they can be taught to the required standard. 

Right now I feel our team doesn't have the right balance of skill sets.  Tough and aggressive, yes.  Accurate disposal skills, no (with maybe 2 or 3 exceptions). 

Those players are like gold but I don't know where they will come from.  We need to take a leaf out of Hawthorn's recruiting manual but unfortunately, re-balancing the skill set won't happen overnight. 

Edit: These comments aren't about the last few weeks - IMO it is a flaw in the make up of the team.

We need speed & skills, without sacrificing the thirst for a contest.