POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 9

[Dr. Gonzo 22,410]

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You don't talk like that, ever

it's the psych of the club for so long

It's time Melbourne got angry at losing. 

It is 11 years since we beat Nought. 11 years to a club who are mediocre at best...

 

Ok I'm angry. Now what.

[Akum 2,660]

52 minutes ago, Redleg said:

They were also to quick for us, as when they got the ball and spread, they scored. They were also too switched on for us. They were also too skillful for us, as we struggle to  pass a ball with pressure by hand or foot. They also had a ruckman and a full forward which we didn't. They were also too aggressive for us. they also decided to play for the whole game, which we didn't. They also had every player contributing which we didn't. They also had forwards who lead to the ball carrier and then hold their marks, which we didn't. They also brought their own umpires.

Yes, but despite all this, we smashed them in the first half of the last quarter and got to within 2 points of them with about 10 minutes to go. As in our other two close losses.

We simply don't know how to win it from there. We just gave them back the initiative far too easily. It's like every player was looking for somebody else to finish the game off.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,463]

Once we have had to plug our rucking gaps with the likes of Tom Mcd, Jack Watts and Cam Pederson, I have feared that one or more would injure themselves purely due to exhaustion. Jack Watts looked tired and lethargic today. Cam Pederson was out on his feet at 3/4 time, struggling to get up. It was always going to happen but we have no options at the moment. If you take in account the players that we are missing Smith x 2, Gawn and Hogan - they are our talls.

I walked away tonight disappointed but not shattered. When we lost our second ruck option, the injuries to other players and Jessie's ongoing personal issues I felt that the resulting changes to our game structure would likely put an end to our chances on making the finals. Any win would be a bonus.  I am not accepting mediocrity but I think I am being realistic. A Club cannot lose the players that we have lost without suffering the consequences. Dont talk to me about the Bulldogs losing players last year. Their list is longer than ours and they had other ruck options. We have none but a make do lot who have played up till today beyond expectations (well mine at least). Our problem today like in the past is that we played catch up after the first quarter. Unlike last week where we were able to nullify Jacobs, today Goldstein hammered us. Even just to get Jake Spencer back would allow the return of the structures that the team trained with all summer. Slowly we will have our best 22 playing. Then there are no excuses. 

Today we played a nineteen man team. We were within 3 pts and if the umpires had been more consistent during the game we just may have won. I was hoping that they would do their usual evening up in the last quarter but no we must have got too close. It will be interesting if charges are laid against Zeibel and Higgins. They were certainly a protected specie today. Ask Clarrie how he was after he was hit and ask whoever it was who cleaned up after Bernie was vomiting on the sidelines. They were not jumper punches, Scotty. 

 

[Binmans PA 25,938]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

To be honest I didn't really notice much of that but I was sitting on the southern stand wing close to the fence. Will try and take note on the replay if I can stomach watching it.

Even so, that's one player, not indicative of the whole team playing with no intensity or effort.

Last week we had the likes of Weideman come crashing in and tackling off the edge of the centre square. We had our mids tackling from everywhere. Today... not so much.

I wouldn't watch it again if I were you.

[Skuit 9,141]

2 hours ago, frankie_d said:

It was absolutely a team tactic, and we had no answer.

We just aren't brutal. See the Hawks destroy Hannebery in to 2014 Granny above.

 

This could be an exact quote of a Roos fan about their team if a couple of sliding doors moments in the final quarter tipped the game our way.

You want an example of brutal? Watch the second quarter again. We bullied them. Absolutely a team tactic, and they had no answer.

It follows on from our ruthless brutality at times last week, and there's probably a small clue as to its origins in that Granny video.

Unfortunately we couldn't keep it up after the break. But we're young. And still learning how to physically dominate the opponent across an entire match. 

[Skuit 9,141]

Anyways. How sweet was that Frost connect on goal? Barely looked like he put anything into it and could have kicked it from a further ten back. Hunt, Watts and Petracca all got run-down hesitating in long range and I'd be happier if they just took the shot instinctively. The odds of finding someone clean in close in tight traffic vs. turning it over when we're exposed on the corridor counter or the odds of kicking a goal vs. being able to reset from a kick-in. They're also momentum goals if you nail them and force an oppo rethink.

But it'll be pretty damn handy if all of Hunt, Frost, Hibberd and Salem can establish themselves as regular threats from around the arc coming off half-back. (Melksham's vids suggest he can do it as well but no evidence of it yet in the red and blue). Jones has been chiming in for one each week, and Pedo is capable from distance as well. A shame that Vince and Tyson have stormed out of the party. 

[Phadraig 760]

I just watched Hibberds post match interview and he spoke about "some individuals who weren't on their game early". I get super tunnel vision while watching the game live, was it the forwards he was talking about? I won't want the game again lets be honset

[Skuit 9,141]

11 minutes ago, Rafiki said:

I just watched Hibberds post match interview and he spoke about "some individuals who weren't on their game early". I get super tunnel vision while watching the game live, was it the forwards he was talking about? I won't want the game again lets be honset

I just watched now. Interesting comments, as he was relating what was spoken about in the brief post-match review. 'Individuals who weren't on their game early'. Then he goes on to say, 'as a team, we weren't cracking in around the contest' - so - 'the ball was coming in really quickly', and that North 'had a lot of run off half-back that really broke us apart'. Is that Goody pointing the finger at out forwards? I think so.

But they were well off it for the whole day though, and didn't do what we need them to do to execute our game-plan as a whole. Beside them, Hunt stood out as starting off quite flat before working into it a bit, and I don't think it was a stretch when watching him to think that he was still feeling the effects of last week. For me, we were just a bit collectively tired and slow in the first rather than it noticeably being an individual player thing, and the Roos were spreading well and had a early focus on intercepting our ball movement.

[Phadraig 760]

I don't think we deserved to win anyway but I'm going to do an umpire rant anyway. That is one of the worst umpiring games that you would see. Bugg tackled 5 seconds after the mark was paid, Vince punched in the stomach so hard that he was spewing when he went off. Touch Brown and a free kick straight away, Hibbo handball in the last that ricocheted out of bounds called deliberate, seemed like numerous times we got tripped without a free kick, Salem rode into the ground when he didn't even have the ball. There was definitely more lets be honest. Rant over

[Skuit 9,141]

46 minutes ago, Rafiki said:

I don't think we deserved to win anyway but I'm going to do an umpire rant anyway. That is one of the worst umpiring games that you would see. Bugg tackled 5 seconds after the mark was paid, Vince punched in the stomach so hard that he was spewing when he went off. Touch Brown and a free kick straight away, Hibbo handball in the last that ricocheted out of bounds called deliberate, seemed like numerous times we got tripped without a free kick, Salem rode into the ground when he didn't even have the ball. There was definitely more lets be honest. Rant over

We never seem to get reward for our tackling either, so many HTB decisions, often consecutive, that don't go to us each week. It's infuriating. Tackle, drop ball, play on, tackle, drop ball, play on, tackle, drag it in, ball-up. But I think the umpiring was about standard for the season, although skewed against this week.

The difference: there seemed to be decisions being made not on merit but as judgement statements. We were pushing the line a lot, then obvious ones wouldn't be called. Like, we started the niggle, then we deserve a gut-punch. Like, Bugg is baiting them, so it's okay to dump him after the fact. Like, we're harassing Higgens, so if he's on the ground, it must be that we stepped over the line (the ump wasn't even watching when he went blew against Frost).

The common factor: that one [censored], who every time I see run out at the start of a game, I know we'll be up against it. Every single game. He doesn't like us, for whatever reason, and his prejudice shines through. It's not a conspiracy, it just is. God forbid, we make a GF or even final and he's officiating - a genuine likelihood, and one I'd like us to have a quiet word to HQ about, even if it means putting together a video package.

[Phadraig 760]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

We never seem to get reward for our tackling either, so many HTB decisions, often consecutive, that don't go to us each week. It's infuriating. Tackle, drop ball, play on, tackle, drop ball, play on, tackle, drag it in, ball-up. But I think the umpiring was about standard for the season, although skewed against this week.

The difference: there seemed to be decisions being made not on merit but as judgement statements. We were pushing the line a lot, then obvious ones wouldn't be called. Like, we started the niggle, then we deserve a gut-punch. Like, Bugg is baiting them, so it's okay to dump him after the fact. Like, we're harassing Higgens, so if he's on the ground, it must be that we stepped over the line (the ump wasn't even watching when he went blew against Frost).

The common factor: that one [censored], who every time I see run out at the start of a game, I know we'll be up against it. Every single game. He doesn't like us, for whatever reason, and his prejudice shines through. It's not a conspiracy, it just is. God forbid, we make a GF or even final and he's officiating - a genuine likelihood, and one I'd like us to have a quiet word to HQ about, even if it means putting together a video package.

The thing I don't undertand is that they paid absolutely every holding the ball for the first 15 minutes and then suddenly completely changed the adjudication of the rule. I always try to be fair with the umpiring because I know it's a tough job but my god how does it change so dramatically. We honestly had about 3 or 4 tackles that should have been holding the ball in our forward 50.

[MT64 1,084]

11 hours ago, Biffen said:

The bald umpire- number 15.

He's on my list.

Only outdone by #16. Vince belted in the stomach RIGHT in from of him (he had a very clear vision) and nothing, just wanted to throw the ball up but umpire #20 from a distance away saw it and paid the free. Just not up to AFL standards.

[What 18,810]

In all 4 of our wins, we have had more kicks than handballs.

When we handball more than we kick, we lose, just like yesterday.

[jumbo returns 6,486]

Love how Watts gets potted after every loss on this forum

Awesome

[BAMF 3,787]

11 hours ago, Ash35 said:

Bulldogs won a flag last year without a recognised ruckman......and a make shift forward line.

They had Roughead and Boyd all year who could play in the ruck. We dont have anyone. Our tall forwards play ruck to try and compete and while they are doing a decent job with their lack of height, its nowhere good enough and also completly ruins our forward structure.

We get detroyed when we try to bomb it into our forward line because we have no proper key forward. This creates uncertainty for our mids which leads to over using it and being tackled. 

We have no  behemoth  waiting down the wing for that quick release out of defence. Instead, we see thiers and have to work something else out. Often we kick it that way anyway and hope we can spoil it over the line.We are forced to play Weiderman when he is clearly no where near ready, Its [censored] our structure completly.

.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,410]

22 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Love how Watts gets potted after every loss on this forum

Awesome

The criticism is warranted he's been poor the last few weeks.

[dazzledavey36 48,694]

24 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Love how Watts gets potted after every loss on this forum

Awesome

Stop putting words in people's mouths. Every other loss he's been quite good. But yesterday was like watching Jack from 2012. I understand Jack isn't the most hardest bloke in our team but he should have won a Logie for that dive he took out on the far wing. 

Also when the game is in the balance i look to players like Watts who is a senior player close to 150 games to stand up. He was extremely timid yesterday and i don't want to see that again.

[jumbo returns 6,486]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The criticism is warranted he's been poor the last few weeks.

Agree - but so many played poorly yesterday

[jumbo returns 6,486]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Stop putting words in people's mouths. Every other loss he's been quite good. But yesterday was like watching Jack from 2012. I understand Jack isn't the most hardest bloke in our team but he should have won a Logie for that dive he took out on the far wing. 

Also when the game is in the balance i look to players like Watts who is a senior player close to 150 games to stand up. He was extremely timid yesterday and i don't want to see that again.

Ever thought he might be buggered? Shouldering the ruck for last 4 or 5 weeks or so? Having ruckmen that weigh 30 kilos or more heavier collide into him?

You probably haven't thought of that

[Brownie 5,151]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I've seen people say this through the thread, do you have examples of lack of effort and intensity? I'm not saying it didn't happen but I didn't really see it. We were outplayed for parts of the game (especially early before we adjusted) but that's not always down to effort and intensity. Our tackling was down on last week but North were flinging it around in the first quarter not allowing us the chance to land a tackle on them.

watch Jack Watts jog around for the majority of the game.

[deelete my account 1,194]

7 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You don't talk like that, ever

it's the psych of the club for so long

It's time Melbourne got angry at losing. 

It is 11 years since we beat Nought. 11 years to a club who are mediocre at best...

 

Mediocre at best? We're desperately trying to make the finals, while they're going for four straight. Not to mention they were a win away from a grand final in 2015, one that was shaped by biased west coast umpiring and they wouldve put up more of a fight against the Hawks. They've been playing good football this year despite being 0-6 and their close losses have mirrored ours. Kangaroos deserve more credit. And for not investing in pokie machines, maybe a little more.

Edited May 21, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[low flying Robbo 979]

4 minutes ago, Brownie said:

watch Jack Watts jog around for the majority of the game.

He looks tired from all the ruck work this year. Give him a week off i reckon. Or when is the bye coming up?

On a side note, Bugg was just asking for it yesterday. That tussle on the MCC wing where he got a free was because a north player was retaliating from him going a few cheap jabs to the stomach while we had gang tackled someone into the ground.

[deelete my account 1,194]

Kents soft shirk of the contest in the last quarter when we were surging was [censored] diabolical. Should be dropped for at least 3 weeks for that and the match effort.

Edited May 21, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The criticism is warranted he's been poor the last few weeks.

Not sure he was poor last week.  He more than did his job in the ruck vs Adelaide which allowed Pedobear to go forward and kick 3 goals and allowed TomMc to go forward and kick 2 goals. 

He must be feeling the physical effects of the battering his body gets in the ruck.  I recon all the extra ruckwork since round 3 had to eventually take its toll. 

It did, this week.

[beelzebub 22,225]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not sure he was poor last week.  He more than did his job in the ruck vs Adelaide which allowed Pedobear to go forward and kick 3 goals and allowed TomMc to go forward and kick 2 goals. 

He must be feeling the physical effects of the battering his body gets in the ruck.  I recon all the extra ruckwork since round 3 had to eventually take its toll. 

It did, this week.

Reckon you might be on to something. He looked spent ( ill almost ... probably not..but looking it ) . Looked a shell of himself.