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Changes v Essendon (Round 6)

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10 minutes ago, juzzk1d said:

Out: Spencer, Smith, JKH

In: Pederson, Bugg, Kennedy

Lewis not in your best 22?

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20 minutes ago, DubDee said:

bringing in king who isn't match fit would be insane and we'd be a man down before we start

So it was "insane" to play him for Casey ?

Clearly it's not ideal, but are you trying to tell me he wouldn't be better in the ruck than Frost, Watts, etc. ?

Because if he would be better it's not insane. 

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1 hour ago, Franky_31 said:

When people were suspicious of Jack Watts commitment, he went into the ruck when Gawn went down. Now most people see how good he can be. Why not put Hogan into the ruck?

Not like it hasn't been done before. Good leap, strong body, handy at the fall of the ball. We can patch up a forward easier than a ruck ATM. Watts back at CHF, swapping with Jessie occasionally. I havent read all the posts so if its being discussed elsewhere, apologies.

I quite like this idea, Hogan looked like a spoilt brat last night and could do with a dose of harden the fire truck up. It would put him around the ball and he could swap in and out of the forward line with watts and pedo.

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27 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Bring in Kennedy and put him in the ruck!

 But seriously, the dogs played virtually ruckless at times and it worked fine. Chuck whoever in and play to lose the ruck. 

bringing in king who isn't match fit would be insane and we'd be a man down before we start

Can people please stop comparing this situation to the Bulldogs? The third man up rule wasn't in last year and Bontompelli etc would often just run and jump unhindered to get a tap. The new rule was supposed to be our golden goose, instead it's turned out to be a poison chalice for us.

Edited by At the break of Gawn
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16 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Can people please stop comparing this situation to the Bulldogs? The third man up rule wasn't in last year and Bontompelli etc would often just run and jump unhindered to get a tap. The new rule was supposed to be our golden goose, instead it's turned out to be a poison chalice for us.

Good point.

And the bulldogs trained all of 2015 preseason for that strategy while they recruited/developed ruckman.  We have been forced into it on the run. 

The Geelong and Richmond  games show that we don't know how to structure up/play when we are not winning/breaking even in the rucks. 

This is literally a new ball game for us.  Regardless of who we bring in we have a lot of work do, to effectively set up at stoppages without a workable ruckman.  From Goodwin's press conf reaction when asked, losing both ruckman is not something the coaches had even contemplated. 

I think we are between a rock and a hard place and just have to make the most of a bad situation. 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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1 minute ago, Dingo said:

I like the idea of Tommy McD sharing the ruck with Pederson.

T Mac as 1st ruck is an interesting prospect...  obviously it robs us of our best tall defender, but he can run all day and not many rucks could go with him around the ground.

Having Frost and O Mac as our key backs while T Mac rucks is not the worst thing. Guess we will see how adventurous Goodwin is on Thursday night.

 

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1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Mitch King will come in for sure.  His assignment will be to just to do the best he can for the next 6 weeks, with no pressure.

We would get crushed using Pedders, Watts and Frost as our rucks.

Tracc how about running a match simulation against the bombers in AFL evolution with those ruck variations before selection night mate!!

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27 minutes ago, --coach-- said:

I quite like this idea, Hogan looked like a spoilt brat last night and could do with a dose of harden the fire truck up. It would put him around the ball and he could swap in and out of the forward line with watts and pedo.

 

10 minutes ago, Dingo said:

I like the idea of Tommy McD sharing the ruck with Pederson.

I'm not adverse to trying these two but hec.... there's been so many suggestions we may as well make this week's match a ruck try out for everyone over 6' 2"!  The reward....The winner gets the bulk of the ruck duties and will likely be pummeled from pillar to post in the next 7 weeks!

Edited by Rusty Nails
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AFL needs to adopt a similar policy to NBA where you can sign players out of lower leagues (VFL, SANFL, etc), on short term contracts and then get the rights to sign them longer term if they perform well.  It gives us the option to grab a ruckman now. 

Why should players have to wait 6 months to go into a draft to possibly play in a year when they could be living their dream next week?

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26 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Clearly it's not ideal, but are you trying to tell me he wouldn't be better in the ruck than Frost, Watts, etc. ?

He'd have to be better in terms of taps, definitely.  The questions for me would be 1) is he fit enough to shoulder 90% ruck duties as you'd expect a first ruck? If we ended up needing to put Watts (or other) in to the ruck for 30% of the game, that would defeat the purpose, and 2) can he contribute anything around the ground? Secondary functions of the ruck are to move forward or back in to the hole when required.  Even if Pedersen is totally inadequate in the ruck, at least we could be pretty confident he would be able to do that.

All obviously questions we can't answer from the armchair, but probably also difficult to answer on such a small sample size at Casey.  I reckon there's a good chance Goodwin and co would want a few more weeks of feedback from Plapp on those questions before calling him in.  

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2 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergard said:

AFL needs to adopt a similar policy to NBA where you can sign players out of lower leagues (VFL, SANFL, etc), on short term contracts and then get the rights to sign them longer term if they perform well.  It gives us the option to grab a ruckman now. 

Why should players have to wait 6 months to go into a draft to possibly play in a year when they could be living their dream next week?

Maybe via a mid season draft Jerry? Long overdue i reckon

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46 minutes ago, M_9 said:

In: King, Pedo, Lewis

Out: Spencer, Smith, Melksham (turnovers/zero tackles)

Pedo to give King a chop out. Watts permanently forward.

Yep.. cometh the hour cometh the man!

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39 minutes ago, ProDee said:

So it was "insane" to play him for Casey ?

Clearly it's not ideal, but are you trying to tell me he wouldn't be better in the ruck than Frost, Watts, etc. ?

Because if he would be better it's not insane. 

Insane to play at Casey? No. that's how it works you play Seconds to build fitness and form after injury

the team is better not having king in it. He might win a few taps but I'd imagine he would provide little else at that stage until fully fit

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7 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Maybe via a mid season draft Jerry? Long overdue i reckon

I think that is even restrictive. Players in lower leagues have already been overlooked by teams in drafts previously, so there should be no reason why they should not be able to sign a contract throughout the year. The AFL should allow extra spots on lists to allow this, or players can be bought out and released if need be to free up a spot.  It will happen eventually, we are always at least a decade behind in regards to the way our league operates in comparison to the global landscape.

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Does anyone know anything about Filipovic? I read he played in Casey 2's a couple of weeks ago and was ok. How do the fitness levels of him and king compare? 

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1 minute ago, Demon77 said:

Does anyone know anything about Filipovic? I read he played in Casey 2's a couple of weeks ago and was ok. How do the fitness levels of him and king compare? 

Apparently, just a kid getting started.  And a rookie to boot.  The report suggested he really is a skinny kid with a long way to go.  Suggest there is zero chance of him seeing seniors footy this year, and maybe even next.  He hasn't played VFL for Casey 1sts yet.  I know we are desperate, but he wouldn't even be on the landscape, let alone in the frame.

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I think the club will be reluctant to rush either of King or Filipovic in.

King has only just come back from a season ending injury from last year with one game under his bealt. Not sure how much of a pre-season he had.

Lachlan is only 19 and also not entirely fit having an interrupted pre-season from memory.

i might be wrong but doesn't it usually take two or three seasons for ruckman this young to build up the fitness and craft to be able to ruck in the AFL? Unless of course they're a top 10 pick maybe...

I can see Goodwin going with Pederson this week to rotate with Frost and Watts

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Re some of the suggestiins: 

King did his knee and It typically takes someone until their 2nd year back to be at their best and he isn't match fit for vfl let alone afl.

Likewise hibberd was excellent but he is just getting match fit and will struggle in the midfield.

Would like to see Weideman have some time in the vfl. Hasn't shown much.

So Pederson for Smith. Frost in the ruck given he has height, can jump, and has played backup ruck. Pedo and Watts to support.

T Mac didn't have a great day but is still one of the league's best tall defenders and would start him on Daniher. Riewoldt would have kicked a bag on most defenders last night and was all class.

Midfield needs a bit of make over to get up for this week. Lewis will give us fresh legs but we will likely need other changes for the sake getting in fresher legs with a short break. Kennedy, Bugg etc should be considered.

JKH wasnt great but needs another chance. Was a little better in the 2nd half.

Harmes needs to play forward as he can take a good mark for his height. 

Would like to see Vince back in the midfield.

Tyson needs a spell at Casey or needs to get his body and fitness right.

Melksham gets one more week against his old team. Perhaps see what he can do in the midfield also. Should have fresh legs given his output.

Salem to go back in defence more. 

Go dees. Very winnable

 

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1 hour ago, ProDee said:

So it was "insane" to play him for Casey ?

Clearly it's not ideal, but are you trying to tell me he wouldn't be better in the ruck than Frost, Watts, etc. ?

Because if he would be better it's not insane. 

King would last 30 minutes at AFL pace and intensity against the mature AFL rucks he'll be up against.  Then he'll blow up and Watts will have to ruck 60+% of the game.  Even he blew up after 50% rucking in both games.

Better to go with TMac who has elite endurance so wont blow up and has a mature body.  Relief from Watts and Pedersen (that's what HE's on the list for). OMac back with Frost and Hibberd.  I actually think we could be OK with this set up.

Agree Frost is hopeless in the ruck.

Edited by Fifty-5
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1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Lewis not in your best 22?

Whoops, forgot about Lewis lol

 

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1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Yep.. cometh the hour cometh the man!

I thought that was Spencer 

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Can`t see King playing personally, you would think Pedo finally gets his chance, however, he has never been a fulltime ruck, maybe 20% game time maximum as a chop out. 

This is totally left field, but could The Weid ruck (if he is over his corky)? He is 1.96cm. I have been screaming for him to be out of the team for 3 weeks but we are going to be making some season-shaping decisions this week, I wonder if this will get thrown around?

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Strongly of the opinion that we need to reset back to a more normal forward structure. And I certainly don't want to start pulling defenders in as part time rucks. That means three tall forwards spending most of their time forward and providing a chop out in the ruck if needs be.

We need our best forwards (Hogan and Watts) mostly forward - capitalising on entries has been a problem as our structure has been compromised. Whatever benefit we get from Watts around the ball is somewhat offset by having limited targets inside 50.

And we need our tall defenders playing back and in form - Daniher and Hooker are dangerous and need respect. So I would suggest the following:

In: King, Peterson/Weid, Lewis

Out: Spencer, Smith, JKH

if Petracca or Viney don't get up in a short week then Bugg and Kent could be considered.

Edited by Radar Detector
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