POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 5

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

As an aside, jeez Talking Footy on CH7 is a shithouse show.

Sam Clure looks like a chewed up mintie and sounds like Hutchy. Luke Darcy and Carey are vacant brains with little to offer and Tim Watson is a sycophant with the personality of a squeezed lemon. 

Might watch a rerun of Foreign Correspondent 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,212]

2 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

We're talking about the finals they play in September right? Seriously we're 2 - 3 with a solid percentage. It's been a frustrating and disappointing three weeks but all hope is not lost. We've got to find some ways to scrape wins over the next two months and then come home like a freight train. Forget the wins and the losses thus far. We've got a list that when fit can compete with anyone. Don't be distracted by the short term misfortune. I think we have the hardest midfield in the comp. We've waited a long time to have the class and excitement of Hunt and Hibberd in our back half. Hogan will get better and better. Jeffy is up and about. Watts is a serious footballer these days. There's a piece or two of the jigsaw still being sorted but we're close. I'm certainly not writing off finals.

 

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

We've lost to three teams who have suffered two losses combined through the first five weeks.

We've led in the fourth quarter of every game and have the lowest average losing margin of all clubs to have lost a game (14.7).

We've won 12 quarters (fifth best in the league, the only club not currently in the top eight on the ladder to be in the top eight in that measurement).

We've led Geelong and Richmond, both undefeated, in the fourth quarter despite being one/two/three down injury-wise during those games.

We've done all this with Viney playing his worst five game stretch in a long time, with Lewis missing three games, with Gawn missing 2.5 games, with Hogan missing two games, with Vince missing a game (and otherwise not being that good anyway), with Watts having to ruck more than he should, with a long injury list generally and having been forced to use 31 players (equal second most in the league).

None of this means we're going to make the finals or even challenge for them, but IMO talk of the season being over, or of a lack of improvement, or of Goodwin struggling, is nothing more than classic MFCSS.

I want to "like" these posts but apparently I'm over my 24 hour allotment (seriously mods what's up with that? Happens after every game win or lose. Why is there a limit on "likes"??)

People need to chill out for a bit and realise we're on the right track. I posted on BF I think Melbourne supporters have gotten so used to complaining (legitimately) over the last 10 (50?) years that they don't really know how else to react to the slightest adversity. Look at the bigger picture people and focus on the positives of which there are many. The comp is very even, if we can snag a couple of wins over the next 6 weeks we'll be in a position to make a run at the finals.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,212]

9 hours ago, jnrmac said:

this infuriates me. Particularly when a player is running and kicks the ball - the oppo player lunges and pushes in the back only to see the ball go out on the full or turned over. Rarely is a free paid.

Also three times last night I counted  Richmond player encroach the mark from the side and not one free paid. Another AFL rule that has gone by the wayside.  

Salem should've had a free kick for a push in the 3rd after having a shot near the 50 following a handball from Melksham 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Dr. Gonzo

[Nasher 33,615]

49 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

I want to "like" these posts but apparently I'm over my 24 hour allotment (seriously mods what's up with that? Happens after every game win or lose. Why is there a limit on "likes"??)

Default setting in the software.  Don't know why - to prevent like spamming I suppose.  Don't know why that might be a problem, but I guess we'll find out as I've just changed it to unlimited.  Like away!

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,242]

1 hour ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

As an aside, jeez Talking Footy on CH7 is a shithouse show.

Sam Clure looks like a chewed up mintie and sounds like Hutchy. Luke Darcy and Carey are vacant brains with little to offer and Tim Watson is a sycophant with the personality of a squeezed lemon. 

Might watch a rerun of Foreign Correspondent 

Tim Watson. For some reason the word "simpering" immediately springs to mind. 

[Adam The God 30,239]

11 hours ago, bandicoot said:

He seems too small and light for AFL. Also, isn't quick or skilled enough to make up for his small stature. Will find it hard to find a position 

I agree that he doesn't seem to have a weapon and have felt this way since 2015, but he may just be able to carve out a niche for himself at half forward with a little more experience. His go is work rate. If he can bring 5+ tackles per game, add a goal or two to his game and use the ball better (with his nice side step), he might just make it. Obviously, the FD and MC are thinking something along these lines.

10 hours ago, Chris said:

I would go to 35 to 45 but it is really hard to tell that difference and is influenced heavily by where you were. Certainly wasn't 15 to 70 though!

Yep. 35,000 MFC, 45,000 RFC and 5,000 neutrals.

[deelete my account 1,194]

38 minutes ago, A F said:

Yep. 35,000 MFC, 45,000 RFC and 5,000 neutrals.

I wonder if the ability to use home game membership for this away game as compo for TIO games contributed significantly to the big numbers. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[Adam The God 30,239]

11 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

I wonder if the ability to use home game membership for this away game as compo for TIO games contributed significantly to the big numbers. 

It certainly won't have hurt. A great idea either way. I take it, therefore, that we get a share in the profits of last night's game?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,391]

On 24/04/2017 at 10:13 PM, drdrake said:

Do we have our first round draft pick this year it will be a top 4 pick, no chance to win a game on the next 10 weeks with the lack of leadership and injuries we have

Considering how the first 5 rounds have gone anything can happen. I still think we're a good chance to play finals. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,391]

On 24/04/2017 at 10:15 PM, Danelska said:

Petracca is not the messiah, I am siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick to death of people vaunting his 'coming of age' - on this forum, for eff's sake stop it. he may jag 3-4 goals twice a year , aside from that he will spot up 5 players a game - he's a good player, will be a very good one, he aint no selwood, and he aint no hanneberry.   *****happily proven wrong.

 

He will be very serviceable - and an enigma...

All the signs are there, he's played 17 (I think that's right, club website says 19) games. Selwood was drafted in 2006 winning a flag in 2007 when the Cats won their first of 3 (07,09, 11). Selwood walked into a team of the brink of greatness, he was always going to be good but let's give Petracca some time, and I don't mean 5 seasons.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bombay Airconditioning

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,391]

On 24/04/2017 at 10:19 PM, DemonAndrew said:

none of our mids can kick the ball, or want to kick the ball:

oliver - 8 kicks, 24 handballs

jones - 7 kicks, 18 handballs

tyson - 9 kicks, 16 handballs

viney - 7 kicks, 16 handballs

anb - 10 kicks, 11 handballs

stretch - 9 kicks, 10 handballs

in wet weather football. disgraceful!

Appreciate the stats, is there one for how many handballs hit the ground or were at a players knees?

i think it would be ok if we hand 2-3 mids having more handballs than kicks but not all of them.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Bombay Airconditioning

[beelzebub 23,364]

16 hours ago, sue said:

What's happened to the in-the-back rule? A couple of times yesterday there were blatant 2 hands in the back pushes in 1 on 1 marking contests with no free paid, both ways.  The most obvious was when Watt's dropped a chest mark. It was almost as if he did not get the free because he was being punished for dropping the mark.

You're not alone in wondering this. 

Some very blatant frees went begging. I have great difficulty seeing the umps side nowadays. They seem directed to impact and course the game instead of just refereeing.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

10 hours ago, jnrmac said:

this infuriates me. Particularly when a player is running and kicks the ball - the oppo player lunges and pushes in the back only to see the ball go out on the full or turned over. Rarely is a free paid.

Also three times last night I counted  Richmond player encroach the mark from the side and not one free paid. Another AFL rule that has gone by the wayside.  

So it seems jnr. I have wondered about this myself as you see it often in all games.

I guess it will inexplicably have its turn as "Rule of the week" eventually.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

11 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

We've lost to three teams who have suffered two losses combined through the first five weeks.

We've led in the fourth quarter of every game and have the lowest average losing margin of all clubs to have lost a game (14.7).

We've won 12 quarters (fifth best in the league, the only club not currently in the top eight on the ladder to be in the top eight in that measurement).

We've led Geelong and Richmond, both undefeated, in the fourth quarter despite being one/two/three down injury-wise during those games.

We've done all this with Viney playing his worst five game stretch in a long time, with Lewis missing three games, with Gawn missing 2.5 games, with Hogan missing two games, with Vince missing a game (and otherwise not being that good anyway), with Watts having to ruck more than he should, with a long injury list generally and having been forced to use 31 players (equal second most in the league).

None of this means we're going to make the finals or even challenge for them, but IMO talk of the season being over, or of a lack of improvement, or of Goodwin struggling, is nothing more than classic MFCSS.

Can't agree with this post enough, titan.  Very good reflection of how far we've come as a club, but also a reflection that there is still some work that needs to be done.

Big 5-6 weeks coming up for this football club.  I hope we swim instead of sink!

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

All the signs are there, he's played 17 (I think that's right, club website says 19) games. Selwood was drafted in 2006 winning a flag in 2007 when the Cats won their first of 3 (07,07,11). Selwood walked into a team of the brink of greatness, he was always going to be good but let's give Petracca some time, and I don't mean 5 seasons.

mmm, was rather drunk when I wrote that Bombay... and slightly  significantly miffed about the loss - a more reasoned head would have said words to the effect of - he will be great, just not in the time frame that some of us are after... and his impact on games similarly I'm sure will be significant... 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Danelska

[beelzebub 23,364]

1 hour ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

So it seems jnr. I have wondered about this myself as you see it often in all games.

I guess it will inexplicably have its turn as "Rule of the week" eventually.

Now heres an essence of much exasperation. The seeming " rule of the week". It's now unlikely to get a consistent application of rules as the powers that be seem bent on sending some sort of message each and every week emphsising the "peeve of the moment"

The rules used to be simple enough that primary schoolers could adjudicate. Now a scholar struggles.

[poita 3,902]

A bit late in writing this, so I'm sure most of what I want to say has already been said.

No faulting the effort, but gee we played some dumb football at times. Four up in a marking contest and nobody down; not keeping our feet at crucial moments; slamming the ball on the boot 5 inches from the boundary; chains of handpasses on a wet night.

We can blame injuries, and they were certainly a factor late, but so were (a) yet again, selecting players who are out of form and going in without another tall and (b) squandering so many inside 50s and so much domination in the first 50 minutes of the game. We should have been six goals up by half time, and we clearly win with what was a strong third quarter.

Hibberd was fantastic, even more so for a guy who has missed so much football. Oliver would be the best player on our list if he would kick the ball occasionally. Hunt was excellent.

Jones, Viney & Tyson were bitterly disappointing, particularly at key moments. Jones had a great first three weeks, but was really poor. The other two have been disappointing all year. Guys like Stretch, Neal-Bullen and Melksham get enough of the ball, but don't have enough impact. Stretch & Melksham in particular as outside players, need to take the game on more (see Hunt as an example).

Hogan looked like a petulant child for most of the night, notwithstanding that he actually did cover a fair amount of ground. Compared to Watts, who just grits his teeth and gets on with on what was a really tough job, Hogan's demeanor was disappointing. 

Richmond haven't received much credit around here for their performance, either on the night or for the season to date, but they have been far more consistent in their effort than we have. They certainly haven't allowed teams to score 5, 6, 7 or 8 goals in a row against them at any point. We need to eradicate those bad patches from our games, even allowing for tired bodies and tired minds, before we can expect to win regularly.

And finally, the Anzac Eve fixture has now gone well past Queens Birthday as the biggest H&A game we play. Full credit to everyone at Melbourne & Richmond who made this happen. It is a wonderful occasion, and a crowd of 85K will ensure it is locked in for the foreseeable future.

[Pates 9,660]

Vince was close to BOG against the saints but is it just me or has his other games been well below his best?

And he's not alone in that, players that we usually expect more from are not performing to their full ability. I'd put Hogan, Viney and Tyson also into that category. The positive of that is there means the scope for improvement from established players are there, while the younger players start to come into their own. 

I don't see this as a game we lost at the selection table and I don't see this as a game we botched because the players weren't putting in. We lost it by not making the most of our dominance when we had it, and not finding a way to curtail Richmonds momentum in the final quarter. Of course the injuries on the night and they outs of Lewis and Gawn play a part, but it's time to start finding a way to get through them. Finding a way to win when the odds and the luck is against you is another step we need to take in our development. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Pates

[McQueen 17,864]

5 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Now heres an essence of much exasperation. The seeming " rule of the week". It's now unlikely to get a consistent application of rules as the powers that be seem bent on sending some sort of message each and every week emphsising the "peeve of the moment"

The rules used to be simple enough that primary schoolers could adjudicate. Now a scholar struggles.

Next thing we'll have is a DRS!

[Coq au vin 755]

5 hours ago, Pates said:

Vince was close to BOG against the saints but is it just me or has his other games been well below his best?

And he's not alone in that, players that we usually expect more from are not performing to their full ability. I'd put Hogan, Viney and Tyson also into that category. The positive of that is there means the scope for improvement from established players are there, while the younger players start to come into their own. 

I don't see this as a game we lost at the selection table and I don't see this as a game we botched because the players weren't putting in. We lost it by not making the most of our dominance when we had it, and not finding a way to curtail Richmonds momentum in the final quarter. Of course the injuries on the night and they outs of Lewis and Gawn play a part, but it's time to start finding a way to get through them. Finding a way to win when the odds and the luck is against you is another step we need to take in our development. 

Vince absolutely pulverised his big toenail a couple of weeks ago. That would be extremely painful.

[beelzebub 23,364]

2 hours ago, Diamond said:

Vince absolutely pulverised his big toenail a couple of weeks ago. That would be extremely painful.

Am surprised he's even playing tttt

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-26/team-of-the-week-r5-did-we-get-it-right

Michael Hibberd makes TOTW.

First game after 18 months and after lots of challenges. 

Sensational performance! 

Great encouragement.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

Did anyone notice this comment by Cotchin. 

"Cotchin fired an extra shot later on, noting the fatigued Dees got too caught up in attempting to make their presence felt, rather than focusing on the game at hand...“For whatever reason, the momentum swung after that moment,” Cotchin said on Triple M Radio...“It seemed as though they were worried about fighting rather than winning the footy.”

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/jack-viney-comes-under-fire-for-focusing-on-flying-the-flag-while-his-individual-form-is-down/news-story/90b6a23ea402d26051a8e567d45701a8

Arrogant sod!  A few wins against weak or decimated teams and they get all cocky.  Can't wait to see them brought down a few pegs.

[picket fence 17,150]

On 4/25/2017 at 4:52 PM, Old Bear said:

Game was lost by selection committee

Watts as a part time ruck-man has been great for his development

How long before he cops a season ending injury time to keep him fwd

Pederson and Frost to Ruck

 

I have stated this on another thread 

Watts needs to play FF with Hogan at CHF

Agree!

[low flying Robbo 979]

The best way to watch the replay of this game is just to watch all our goals and forget that Richmond won...

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2017-04-26/rd-5-all-the-goals

Some of the goals were awesome:

- Watts' shimmy and spin and left foot delivery to Salem who goaled

- Petracca bullocking through Melksham to hit Jeffy in the forward 50... gold!

- Salem's quick hands to Hunt who was coming through at full pace to goal from 50

- Then Clarry's monster double hard ball gets to give to Jeffy for another goal from 50

Edited April 27, 2017 by low flying Robbo