Bernie Vince is finished

[Ron Burgundy 8,588]

 

 

[daisycutter 29,923]

2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

 

well said, ron

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Chain him onto Dusty on Monday. Lock him down. If Dusty and Cotch are quiet, we have a very good chance of winning

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 hour ago, pitmaster said:

Now let me get this right...this thread is about a bloke who had toe surgery last week after his foot was stomped on, right?

No, it's about a bitterly disappointed bloke spitting the dummy because we lost and blaming the last bloke to make a mistake regardless of logic.  He is also partial to a slice of humble pie.

Well that's what I  think anyway. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I'll back Bernie to improve from here.  He will know that he needs to get better and we all know what he is capable of.

I always chuckle when I see @dazzledavey36 go for one of these types of threads.  He wears his heart on his sleeve and, as VP said above, he's had to eat his fair share of humble pie over the journey (which he has been more than happy to do).  For Bernie's and the clubs sake, I hope he forces dazzle to eat yet another slice.

[mauriesy 7,431]

Well, if he's made lots of heart-on-sleeve comments then continues to end up eating humble pie, he's not learning much.

Agree with Vogon, the last mistake is not the only one that causes the loss.

[dazzledavey36 55,995]

Im sticking by what i said here. If he continues the form here is now then i cannot see him getting another contract next year. Its either midfield or bust for Bernie.

His 32 next year and only going to get slower. Him getting 25 disposals a game isn't going to save him. Just ask Daniel Cross. 

Also the humble pie that i have ever only eaten is Jayden Hunt. Funny that there were a few on this thread that shared the exact same worry i had with Hunt before debut and yet i was the only one who put my hand up while some turned a blind eye.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

6 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Im sticking by what i said here. If he continues the form here is now then i cannot see him getting another contract next year. Its either midfield or bust for Bernie.

His 32 next year and only going to get slower. Him getting 25 disposals a game isn't going to save him. Just ask Daniel Cross. 

Also the humble pie that i have ever only eaten is Jayden Hunt. Funny that there were a few on this thread that shared the exact same worry i had with Hunt before debut and yet i was the only one who put my hand up while some turned a blind eye.

I fully agree mate.  If he continues the way he is going then he'll strugged to get another contract, or at best get one more year on the list.

The only reason I want you to eat humble pie is simply because it means Bernie just had a slow start and his contributions became far more positive as the season progresses.  That would be great for not only himself but for the team as a whole as well.  Not trying to be spiteful.

[Biffen 12,949]

He should be wearing a star player and bombing them from 55.

He is not a backmans ring.

[dazzledavey36 55,995]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

I fully agree mate.  If he continues the way he is going then he'll strugged to get another contract, or at best get one more year on the list.

The only reason I want you to eat humble pie is simply because it means Bernie just had a slow start and his contributions became far more positive as the season progresses.  That would be great for not only himself but for the team as a whole as well.  Not trying to be spiteful.

Don't worry mate your not being spiteful. 

I feel personally that if Bernie would need to play good footy its back to the position he knows best and thats being that aggressive midfield tagger that he does best.

He won the best and fairest playing in this position. Why the coaching staff leaving him down back i have no idea.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

He's not finished, not by a long way.

[Older demon 2,799]

I think Bernies best games are in the midfield and tagging or playing one on one with blokes like Mitchell, Selwood etc. Yes he makes errors which we don't notice further up the ground but are crucial in the last line of defence. The importance of good kickers down back is now being shown. Hibberd, Hunt, Salem and even Wagner will form the defence as 3 are are good left footers and the other (Hunt) runs it out of defence and gains yards. 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Vince can play the HB position very well, as was evidenced both last year and round 1 this year against St Kilda. He had a superb game against St Kilda. The argument in regards to position is pointless. 

Like a few of his team-mates, the problem is completely to do with consistency of performance. Plain and simply, the gap between his best and worst football is far too great. 

Fix that and it won't matter where he plays, he'll be valuable to the side.

I can cop it with some of the younger and less experienced guys. But I can't with Vince or T-Mac. 

[Redleg 42,052]

On 4/16/2017 at 10:57 AM, Vogon Poetry said:

Not many would disagree with the fact Bernie wasn't at his best in the last few minutes and it's easy to concentrate on that at the expense of other team issues.  But we lost not because Bernie missed a kick in the last few minutes, we lost because the whole team failed to compete in the third quarter.  I think the call that Bernie is finished is premature but who knows, Dazzle might be right or he might put this down as more humble pie like his calls on Hunt and Salem.  Dazzle is very fond of humble pie. 

There is no doubt we concentrate on players who get the ball and make mistakes but what about Neville Jetta.  His games last week and this week were pretty ordinary.  Bernie had more contested possessions this week than Jetts has had in two weeks.  The opposition smalls have had a picnic against us two weeks in a row.  Melksham has been ordinary all year  but he's not being dissected and analysed like Bernie because he was so poor, and, like Jetts, he couldn't get the ball and therefore didn't "make mistakes".  Red says Vince's positioning when Freo scored their last goal was stupid.  He blamed Bernie, not Melksham or Jetts (or any number of other players).  Heaven knows why but perhaps he knows more than me and knows it was Bernie who should have been behind the ball.  Frankly I think like all of us he's just bitterly disappointed and at the moment Vince is being made the scapegoat.

I'm no expert on what the stats mean and I know people with views disregard stats when they work against them and use them to support arguments but Vince had 25 possessions, 9 contested and 10 intercept possessions.  He had 2 clangers.  Face value that's a pretty good game.

McDonald, who I reckon had an absolute stinker, had 7 clangers and missed a simple mark resulting in a goal in the third.  But we're not blaming McDonald.  Viney, ANB, Watts and Weed missed simple shots but no, we're blaming Bernie because his mistake was in the last minute or so.

I'm happy to back Bernie in, I don't need a specific scapegoat because I reckon 22 players went missing in the third quarter and another two have gone missing for two games each so it's a list issue not a specific player issue. 

Well Vogon you are right, I was and am bitterly disappointed and perhaps my comments on Bernie were unfair. I suppose I blamed him in the last goal for being poorly positioned and that may be harsh on him, as he ended up being the one chasing McCarthy to the goal line and was probably the most visible.

In reality several should be blamed, as the photo posted sums it all up. We are up a few points, couple of minutes to go and we see 2 Dockers goalside, then 3 Demons running in with 3 more Dockers behind them.

No Demon goalside and outnumbered 5-3 tells the story of the last goal.

But again you are correct, there were a number of factors that led to the loss including but not limited to, Weid's poor game albeit injured and that dreadful miss from 13 metres, Sandi's dominance in the ruck and great games from Fyfe and Neale, poor games from our Co Captains, an unstopped 3rd quarter onslaught, loose checking at the end of the 2nd quarter, shocking disposal, poor goal kicking, dropped marks, a lack of on field leadership, an inability to close down a game in the last few minutes when ahead, bad luck ( the Kent pass to Watts bouncing through before Watts could grab it ), missing Hogan, Lewis and Max most of all, etc.

While I don't agree with the thread title, I do feel Bernie is best used now as a mid/tagger or forward.

Also yes he was far from the worst and I agree with most of what you have posted.

BTW I thought Melksham was worse than terrible, whatever that is.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Redleg

[Demon Jack 7,155]

Bernie Vince is not finished. He simply doesn't have the capacity to play as a defender. I recall that Bernie played as a midfielder for the majority of round 1 and was excellent.

When Lewis and Hibberd come into the side, I'd expect Bernie to push into the midfield more.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

25 minutes ago, Redleg said:

While I don't agree with the thread title, I do feel Bernie is best used now as a mid/tagger or forward.

Also yes he was far from the worst and I agree with most of what you have posted.

BTW I thought Melksham was worse than terrible, whatever that is.

Agree with all of that Red, pity Lewis had a brain fade as perhaps Bernie is down there to cover for him and others that are injured. 

I'm more angry than disappointed.  Hogan and Vince have cost us at least 4 and arguably 8 points.  In a tight year where I doubt there will be any easy games that is unforgivable.  How they could put the work of 45 teammates and the whole FD's work for the year at risk for stupid undisciplined cheap shots is utterly incomprehensible and deflating.

I wasn't having a go at you, just pointing out the silliness of blaming one person for one mistake for the loss.

[Adam The God 30,644]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Don't worry mate your not being spiteful. 

I feel personally that if Bernie would need to play good footy its back to the position he knows best and thats being that aggressive midfield tagger that he does best.

He won the best and fairest playing in this position. Why the coaching staff leaving him down back i have no idea.

I don't think any modern AFL team wants to carry a tagger. Still, it might be worth it next week against Richmond. He can win his own ball in the middle. He just needs to be smarter with the way he uses it.

[Ted Lasso 19,568]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Don't worry mate your not being spiteful. 

I feel personally that if Bernie would need to play good footy its back to the position he knows best and thats being that aggressive midfield tagger that he does best.

He won the best and fairest playing in this position. Why the coaching staff leaving him down back i have no idea.

I suspect when we have a fully fit hibberd in the side and Lewis back Vince will become a very handy midfield rotation

half back doesn't suit him but I think Goodwin would rather keep Salem in the midfield for his development and not sure who else could play that role 

[dazzledavey36 55,995]

1 minute ago, A F said:

I don't think any modern AFL team wants to carry a tagger. Still, it might be worth it next week against Richmond. He can win his own ball in the middle. He just needs to be smarter with the way he uses it.

Well it worked yesterday with Mitch Robinson completely shutting down Martin so i really hope Goodwin takes that into account. I still think taggers are a huge part of the game. If Goody wants to help Vince into form then a midfield spot or half forward should be the go. 

Im sorry but Vince down back is almost nail biting as having Oscar down there as well.

4 minutes ago, Abe said:

I suspect when we have a fully fit hibberd in the side and Lewis back Vince will become a very handy midfield rotation

half back doesn't suit him but I think Goodwin would rather keep Salem in the midfield for his development and not sure who else could play that role 

I hope your right. Because this is exactly what i want to see happen.

[BAMF 4,465]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I hope your right. Because this is exactly what i want to see happen.

When a person says 'Bernie Vince is finished', you sort of get the opinion that the person who said it doesn't want Bernie Vince to ever play again.

Maybe you could edit the thread title to say 'Bernie Vince is finished (unless he moves to the midfield which is what I want to see happen)'

[monoccular 17,700]

On 15/04/2017 at 9:21 PM, Petraccattack said:

Hes not a backman, should be used as a tagger like he did for portions of 2014 and 2015 when he shut down some big names and hurt them the other way.  Clearly remember him beating Pendlebury twice in the one season.

If we get Lewis and Hibberd back, presumably for Melksham will Bernie still fit in on a HBF?  

A tagging mid who can break forward and punish the opposition with a few long goals seems to have been his best position. 

[Tracca 862]

On 4/16/2017 at 9:31 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

So 1 good game out of about the last 12.

Some are easily satisfied.

Mat,

 

 you are off chops!!

 

1 game out of the last 12?

 

He was BOG against Port in Rnd 21 last year, our best player against St Kilda with 34 possies, and Id say hes probably had 3 bad games in the lasts 12 matches. He will be offered another contract.

 

[poita 3,928]

Bernie should be playing in the midfield. Other teams know he is no good defensively (one on one), so drag him back to an area he is not comfortable in. Give him a run with role in the middle, and he'll be fine. I'd much rather have Bernie in there than Neal-Bullen.

As an aside, if his foot is a problem, he shouldn't be playing. We have players at Casey who can come in and do a job. Give him some time off and let him get it right.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

17 minutes ago, poita said:

Bernie should be playing in the midfield. Other teams know he is no good defensively (one on one), so drag him back to an area he is not comfortable in. Give him a run with role in the middle, and he'll be fine. I'd much rather have Bernie in there than Neal-Bullen.

As an aside, if his foot is a problem, he shouldn't be playing. We have players at Casey who can come in and do a job. Give him some time off and let him get it right.

Not good one on one suggest you look at Geeling game, he dragged down Hawkins and saved a goal

He is not being dragged back, he is playing defence coz Lewis gave himself a holiday and Hibberd is not quite fit yet

If the forwards and midfielders vaporize for a quarter like they did in the 3rd, then all the defenders will be under the pump, he made the last mistake so it stands out, we didn't lose because of that mistake, we lost because of the 3rd qtr where most of the team went missing