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Oliver Sholem

Changes for next week v Geelong

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Not sure who remembers the last two games of last year.. we need a strong fwd as a vocal point.

Hogan OUT

Pedo IN

 

Lewis OUT

Vince IN

Would like to see Kent in there somehow.

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Just now, Webber said:

He'd be mad not to move on. I guess the nagging thought for me is that considering Max's talents away from the ruck, how might the team go if Jake were doing 50% of the rucking whilst Max was hovering around the goals (and vice versa). Geelong have Mackie, Lonergan, Hansen and Taylor (if they play him where they should) who are all going to be dominant in the air against us if that's the way it comes in, which it sometimes will. Playing a small forward line in the hope we can use speed and precision for all our goals seems a little thin to me. 

The thought of an AA ruckman only rucking for 50% of the game is not something that should ever be entertained.  Max isn't a forward, either, and as we've said in the past he is only good when he drifts down there while rucking.  Spencer is no forward, either, so playing them both just doesn't really work.

As for the potential of going with a small forward line, if we are able to move the ball quickly and lower our eyes then it can work.  If we bomb it in there all day and allow them to pick it off then we'll be playing right into their hands.  So, to me, it depends on how we play in terms of whether a smaller forward line will work or not.

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11 hours ago, Demanding Success said:

I think Tim smith might get a look in to replace Hogan.

I'm thinking the same thing.  They just need someone to provide a contest and let the smalls get to work.  I think Kent comes in also.  ANB will make way for Kent 

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7 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

I'm thinking the same thing.  They just need someone to provide a contest and let the smalls get to work.  I think Kent comes in also.  ANB will make way for Kent 

A lot of talk on here of ANB getting dropped.  He was one of a handful named in Goody's press conference for his performance in the last quarter.  It's pretty clear that he, and a couple of others ,are playing a specific role around that half forward line, and when he plays it, we are a better team for it (as can be seen in the last quarter against Carlton).

For the first 3 quarters, there were a number of players that were down.  ANB was one of the ones that stood up when it counted, and I'm sure that will be part of the reason why Goody won't have him dropped.  Also worth not in he laid 5 tackles for the game, so he'll be asked to continue that half forward pressure, as this will translate in to greater opportunities for not only himself, but for those around him.

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13 minutes ago, Webber said:

He'd be mad not to move on. I guess the nagging thought for me is that considering Max's talents away from the ruck, how might the team go if Jake were doing 50% of the rucking whilst Max was hovering around the goals (and vice versa). Geelong have Mackie, Lonergan, Hansen and Taylor (if they play him where they should) who are all going to be dominant in the air against us if that's the way it comes in, which it sometimes will. Playing a small forward line in the hope we can use speed and precision for all our goals seems a little thin to me. 

Webber, You are seriously overrating Spencer as a footballer. His skill level doesn't warrant any club recruiting him as a no.1 ruckman. If you watched the VFL finals, he was barely VFL level, and got touched up by Minson and Campbell in the GF.

As far as the Geelong game goes, Geelong stopped competing in the ruck against North, which left them with an additional player at stoppages. They'll do the same if Gawn dominates, so it's pointless picking Spencer as an additional ruckman.

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2 forced changes, and the only other one I can see being dropped maybe is Hannan. 

Out: Lewis, Hogan, Hannan (?)

In: Vince (certainty), Kent, Pedo if ready. If not maybe we play Spencer and Gawn spends more time forward?

 

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I'd bring in Vince and Spencer for Lewis and Hogan. No other changes.

I'm not going to argue why Vince, as I think it's self-evident.

My arguments for Spencer are:

  • we need to play him in some games this year. We cannot go the whole season without him having any senior experience as it leaves us exposed if we play finals and Gawn becomes unavailable
  • it frees Watts to take on the Hogan role which has been part "stay-at-home" traditional forward and part "move-around-the-ground" oversized onballer. Watts won't be as good as Hogan at either of the roles Hogan plays, but he'll be much better overall at it than Weideman, Pedersen or Spencer. If Watts is doing that, he can't also be the second ruckman.
  • it allows Gawn to spend more time forward while Spencer rucks. Gawn performed on Sunday like someone carrying an injury. Sore back? Sore wrist? General malaise? Giving him genuine ruck support might be timely. 
  • without Spencer (or Pedersen), there's a lack of big bodies in the forward line. Both Watts and Weideman are (relatively) skinny and need a big body to support them. That means Kent is less likely than Spencer, although Kent, if he's ready, could challenge for ANB or Hannan's spot - but not Hogan's. 
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Noting the discussion about ruck duties this week, any chance Geelong will again use the non-contesting they employed against North in the last quarter? If so, we'd need a ruck division smart enough to counter it (e.g. quick hands to grab and give). Jake might be less qualified here than alternatives.

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1 hour ago, Webber said:

I suspect you're right ProDee, but it's a bit cruel watching Spencer wither on the vine. He's in good form, at peak age for a ruckman, and just isn't getting the chances he would at any other club. The price paid for sitting behind the AA ruckman I guess. Tell me you don't imagine the Max and Jake show might just be a winner though. 

I hasten to add that I'm not potting Spencer and in fact think he'd be a more than OK replacement for Gawn if he went down.  It's just that I don't think two "first rucks" makes us better.

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No to Spencer.  Theres a reason he didnt pay Round 1 at Etihad even against a very tall Saints side, and he wont play this week.

No brainer changes, and gee isnt it nice to finally have depth

In -  VInce, Kent

Out -  Hogan, Lewis 

Smaller mobile forward line this week. Was reading the Geelong forum and they think Lewis being out actually helps us cos he is slow and their midfield is very fast.  Not sure about that but we can definitely win this week even with the two big outs.

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A great deal of dislike for Oscar, Dom, Angus, and Melksham...

I am not a fan of Oscar's output right now but he is doing enough to keep an underdone Frost out. He only played a half at Casey. He is not coming in.

No to Spencer - he is no replacement for Hogan and certainly not at Etihad - don't take too many lumberers there...

If Brayshaw needs a rest for his concussion (poor bloke) then so be it, but otherwise he stays. Melksham was messy but works hard, he may missout to Hibberd but our half back line needs his run.

And Dom helped turn the game in the last - I will go back and watch the tape but I thought he was good and I am sticking to that recollection.

Bugg, Kent, and Spencer played well according to reports.

OUT: Hogan, Lewis

IN: Vince, Kent

Happy to go with a smaller forward line at Etihad and trust our skills (which were just terrible on Sunday...).

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10 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

No to Spencer.  Theres a reason he didnt pay Round 1 at Etihad even against a very tall Saints side, and he wont play this week.

No brainer changes, and gee isnt it nice to finally have depth

In -  VInce, Kent

Out -  Hogan, Lewis 

Smaller mobile forward line this week. Was reading the Geelong forum and they think Lewis being out actually helps us cos he is slow and their midfield is very fast.  Not sure about that but we can definitely win this week even with the two big outs.

SNAP

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9 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

No to Spencer.  Theres a reason he didnt pay Round 1 at Etihad even against a very tall Saints side, and he wont play this week.

No brainer changes, and gee isnt it nice to finally have depth

In -  VInce, Kent

Out -  Hogan, Lewis 

Smaller mobile forward line this week. Was reading the Geelong forum and they think Lewis being out actually helps us cos he is slow and their midfield is very fast.  Not sure about that but we can definitely win this week even with the two big outs.

Playing that small of a forward is a huge risk. I'd rather that than spencer but if we dont have uncontested possessions heading forward we will have no big targets to hit. I think we need someone who can compete regularly. Thats what Pedo is for. The have to enusere that the Geelongs cant take intercept marks, if they take marks down back we will have no hope. If Kent is to come in then ANB or Hannan should make way for him, not a knock on either, just Kent is better.

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I would bring in Vince and Spencil. Geelong will bring in Zac Smith for their ruckman. And why drop Brayshaw ? He is a good player having a rough trot. VFL won't do him any good.

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Last time I looked we won our past two games      The first was a good winagainst a side that had the wood on us and a ground that it seemed impossable for us to win at, the 2nd was a bit of a grind against a side that had the wood on us.

I don't think a lot of changers are warranted     Two are compulsary

I don't believe that Hannon,ABN or Brayshaw have done anything so bad that they deserved to be dropped at this stage from a winning side.   Nobody starred last week but they all did the job.   You can't star every week.

Vince for Lewis

Kent for Hogan

The rest will have to be patient and continue to play well at VFL level until such time as they are needed or bust the wall down.

It's a good feeling that this is the case

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I doubt we will go for Spence. At the presser after round one Goody commented that Watts was presenting and bashing the pack which is what they had asked of him. On that basis you can only assume our forward plan is to be quick and agile around the forward line. Its time for Weeds to step up. We will bring in more run this week. 

If the Scott brother (cant be bothered to work out who is who) doesn't contest the ruck that will be a bad mistake Gawny will just take the ball and feed it off. That will take Dangerwood out of the game. 

Its an irony that some think that we may be better suited to Etihad than the G. 

The best bit is that I don't feel the loss of Lewis and Hogan is a fatal blow to our chances this week. 

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It will be interesting and instructive to see what happens at selection.

I'd go for:

In: Vince, T.Smith, Kent
Out: Lewis, Hogan, Brayshaw

I think we need an additional marking target when Watts is in the ruck so I'm favouring Smith who sounds like he's playing better than Pedersen.

I'm a fan of Brayshaw but he is struggling and we need to kick goals so Kent comes in.  Brayshaw will eventually become an important mid as Lewis, Vince and Jones move out of the midfield and retire.  He can ply his trade as starting mid at Casey and benefit there.  Right now he's playing HF, wing and it's not really his strength - ANB is playing that role better right now

If they decide to make only the 2 forced changes then I'd go for Kent ahead of Smith and play the small forward line.

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1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

No to Spencer.  Theres a reason he didnt pay Round 1 at Etihad even against a very tall Saints side, and he wont play this week.

No brainer changes, and gee isnt it nice to finally have depth

In -  VInce, Kent

Out -  Hogan, Lewis 

Smaller mobile forward line this week. Was reading the Geelong forum and they think Lewis being out actually helps us cos he is slow and their midfield is very fast.  Not sure about that but we can definitely win this week even with the two big outs.

Exactly what I was thinking. Play Trac out of the square on Lonergon and let him have the 50 by himself. Put Watts Weed Kent Jeff Hannan around the 50 and let them run rings around them.

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9 hours ago, martin said:

Agree with the Tim Smith sentiment. Based on Plapp's weekend assessment,his strong mature body,marking power and accuracy at goal pick him and surprise the Cats. Elevating would help his confidence and his 'wild card' aspect could be a bonus. Hogan was hampered by an ankle on the weekend and below his best.Rest won't hurt. As suggested,Vince for Lewis and Kent for Hannan (bit stiff but clunking a few at Casey could help him). Would be tempted to swap Bugg for ANB or Harmes but 5 changes is a lot and it is Etihad.Finally,very vencouraged by Maynard's 28 touches and the coaches glowing report. One for the future!

Not sure how they did at Casey but subject to putting in a decent performance.....

- Kent for ANB for the extra pace and finish in front of goal

- Bugg for Gus who just looks NQR for mine.

- Vince for Lewis seems like a lay down

- Tim Smith for Hulk

- Pedders for Weids? but not convinced he is ready either. Prefer Weids in the medium term but he is still a fair way off holding down the 2nd string forward role and shouldn't be expected to at this point in his career.

There's no way Weids & Watts (as our only Talls) along with a resting Big M, can carry that forward line alone and be effective IMO. A genuine forward is needed to provide structure and a target as well as be dangerous in front of the sticks from most angles. Tim Smith offers that plus he is handy on the lead and very hard to move off the ball. A medium tall that plays tall and small! This makes him a very tricky (valuable for us) match up on game day, although wouldn't  be expecting miracles in his first up AFL game, just a solid competitive performance that helps feed the smalls.

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Gawn full forward, Watts half forward. Spencer Ruck. Worth a go.....did the trick at Kardinia park 2 years ago...........with no Hogan.

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2 hours ago, Robbie57 said:

I doubt we will go for Spence. At the presser after round one Goody commented that Watts was presenting and bashing the pack which is what they had asked of him. On that basis you can only assume our forward plan is to be quick and agile around the forward line. Its time for Weeds to step up. We will bring in more run this week. 

If the Scott brother (cant be bothered to work out who is who) doesn't contest the ruck that will be a bad mistake Gawny will just take the ball and feed it off. That will take Dangerwood out of the game. 

Its an irony that some think that we may be better suited to Etihad than the G. 

The best bit is that I don't feel the loss of Lewis and Hogan is a fatal blow to our chances this week. 

Come on Robbie, focus !!  It's Chris.  " C " for Chris, " C " for Cats.  " C " for cranky and " C " for........... something else starting with C. 

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Vince in for Lewis and Smith in for Hogan. The Plapp article on Melbourne site getting the supporters ready for Smith to come off the Rookie list

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Don't understand the no love for Pedersen. He has filled in for Hogan well previously, he always creates a contest & provides a marking target to kick too, he works hard & albeit his not blessed with pace he make his presence felt at ground level too. You know what you'll get from him, now is not the time to try an unknown Smith & I don't like the idea of 2 rucks at Etihad.. Pedersen in for Hogan is a no brainer, unless we go small which sounds good in theory until Lonergan, Mackie, Taylor (if he stays back) mop up every high ball inside 50.

We lacked a lead up target across half forward last week, our midfielders & half backs had nothing to kick too.. Pedersen will give us that option, it sounds stupid but he actually hits up the kicker better than Hogan does, who likes to try & get into a 1 on 1 tussle. 

Edit: not to mention he can ruck and lets our 2nd best goal kicker (Watts) stay permanently inside 50

Edited by JV7
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4 hours ago, dl4e said:

I would bring in Vince and Spencil. Geelong will bring in Zac Smith for their ruckman. And why drop Brayshaw ? He is a good player having a rough trot. VFL won't do him any good.

We are 2 games into the season and he has had 1 bad game.  I would hardly call this a rough trot 

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