Second Ruckman

[old55 23,560]

I may be the only one, but I haven't given up on Jamar. I think he offers physicality and a contested marking threat that White and PJ don't have and therefore complements them. He's still only 23 and has time and scope for improvement. Clark Keating virtually never got a kick but is a triple premiership #1 ruckman who played a big part in those flags.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

I may be the only one, but I haven't given up on Jamar. I think he offers physicality and a contested marking threat that White and PJ don't have and therefore complements them. He's still only 23 and has time and scope for improvement. Clark Keating virtually never got a kick but is a triple premiership #1 ruckman who played a big part in those flags.

I am with you I like Jamar I enjoy watching him play (dont worry I am constantly bagged for this by family) but I like him and I like seeing him in Melb players, have a little faith I think he is young he can only get better

[45HG 1,539]

Anybody hear that astrologists found a planet 13 times the size of jupiter? Still half the size of jamar

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

Speaking of 2nd ruckman I thought PJ was terrifc on Saturday. In fact I think he has earnt his paycheck every week since Jamar was dropped.

[loges 6,767]

Those that said PJ wouldn't make it as a ruckman may have been a bit premature given his age and games played

[deanox 9,914]

could jamar develop as a strong tall marking forward? he looks good when up there. he can be used as a resting ruckman and do the work up forward but his height could be invaluable post neitz. he would probably be a tall in the holland mold. never the greatest player on the ground but can be invaluable at times as he adds another (1) dimension to the forward line.

[Doggo 32]

could jamar develop as a strong tall marking forward? he looks good when up there. he can be used as a resting ruckman and do the work up forward but his height could be invaluable post neitz. he would probably be a tall in the holland mold. never the greatest player on the ground but can be invaluable at times as he adds another (1) dimension to the forward line.

I think the problem(s) with Jamar are that he doesnt work hard enough to present, or is anywhere quick enough on the lead when in the forward line. Is very much confined to the goalsquare when up forward, for the long bomb. This leads to him being extremely predictable when inside 50. Secondly, if he were to improve his timing and skill on the lead, this would take him outside 30+ metres. From this distance, his kicking can be a real liability.

Therefore, his worth as a forward really only extends to him being played very deep in the square for the "bomb it long" option. Has not the pace or footy smarts to get the ball on the lead, and when he does, kicking distance and accuracy are a major problem. He is a SHOCKING kick! Not to mention being absolutely useless when the ball hits the ground.

Yes he can mark and is a big body, but i think all he would do in our forwardline is take up space. When he returns from his hamstring, i think he should be given an extended run at Sandy as a tall forward (though highly unlikely considering Sauntner, Newton, Miller and Dunn will all be part of their forward 50 setup) to see if he actually is capable of playing as a constructive forward, capable of touching the ball more than 5 times a game, kicking a few goals and taking some strong marks over 4 qtrs.

Could be worth a crack, but at this stage i dont see him eventuating into anything more than a pinch-hitter up forward for Sandy, and certainly not a good (or even average) forward at AFL level.

[Red and Blue Flame 186]

Trade Jamar for a draft pick at seasons end. White is almost gone too...we have Paul Johnson and also Neaves, and either pickup or draft another ruckman. Difficult, but we must be more pro-active and attacking come trade period.

[Rogue 585]

could jamar develop as a strong tall marking forward? he looks good when up there. he can be used as a resting ruckman and do the work up forward but his height could be invaluable post neitz. he would probably be a tall in the holland mold. never the greatest player on the ground but can be invaluable at times as he adds another (1) dimension to the forward line.

If Jamar is going to make it I think it'll be as a ruckman, not in the mould of the Holland FP we used a few years back.

[Kit Walker 225]

Unless there is a great offer, Jamar will surely be here next year. Need 4 ruckmen on your list (see Fremantle final last year) and they take years to develop.

If Kruezer is as good as the hype, we are basically no shot at getting him unless we're below Richmond who are worse off for rucks than we are. Neaves promotion much more likely to put pressure on the other 3. Jamar is still only 23 and trading ruckmen is expensive - St Kilda and Sydney know that.

[Doggo 32]

I went to visit my 10-year-old cousin today, and being a young Melbourne supporter (no influence from me there.. hehe ), i asked him what he thought of the game on Saturday. He was so wrapped, and it really made me truly happy to see the passion in his young 'Demon' eyes. Reminded me of my younger days following the Dee's.

But one thing in particular that he said really stuck out in my mind.

He told me his new favorite player was Paul Johnson.

I asked him why, and he said "because i'm a ruckman too" (which he is in the Under 11's, and not a bad one either!), and that he "loved the way he marked the ball in defence all those times in the last quarter, and won a lot of taps!"

I gotta say, even I was really gobsmacked. I'm probably PJ's biggest supporter on here, and i had absolutely no influence in him making his decision about that (honestly). His former favorite player was David Neitz, whom he said he still loved, but now is "getting too old" (his words, not mine! ), and he reckons PJ will be around for a long time still.

PJ must really have gotten a whole lot better overhead and in the ruck, considering even my little cuz is noticing his strong marking and rucking!

It's funny how little kids notice these things, but in their own innocent little way. It was great...

[Guest Redleg_24]

Write this down P.J will be an absolute freak, we have only seen 20% of his ability. Jamar i don't think will get much better. Can't jump over a Jam Tin, which dosn't help

This guy was really on to something wasn't he.

Geez, I hope you all wrote this down!

Muppet

Edited July 8, 2010 by Redleg_24

[old55 23,560]

take a million monkeys and a million posts ...

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

This guy was really on to something wasn't he.

Geez, I hope you all wrote this down!

Muppet

Easy there rocket. Every one of us (that's been here since when this thread started) has made half-a-dozen poor calls. If we're gonna be dredging up the past, I reckon Jamar would have humiliated over 50% of regular posters. And those that had confidence in him are likely the ones that see a future for EVERY listed player, even the Weetras of this world. With PJ you'd think the Mark-Jamar-cautionary-tale might have changed the way people think and post, giving them a few moments' pause.

What's that saying? Hindsight is always 20/20?

[Guest Redleg_24]

Easy there rocket. Every one of us (that's been here since when this thread started) has made half-a-dozen poor calls. If we're gonna be dredging up the past, I reckon Jamar would have humiliated over 50% of regular posters. And those that had confidence in him are likely the ones that see a future for EVERY listed player, even the Weetras of this world. With PJ you'd think the Mark-Jamar-cautionary-tale might have changed the way people think and post, giving them a few moments' pause.

What's that saying? Hindsight is always 20/20?

Another lesson: don't rubbish big men or KP players when they are in the 'development years' becasuse the 'wonder years' may be just around the corner!

[jayceebee31 761]

Another lesson: don't rubbish big men or KP players when they are in the 'development years' becasuse the 'wonder years' may be just around the corner!

It takes alot longer for a tall to play consistant footy. However, some show glimpases of it early on. We are dead set lucky that Jamar has really kicked on - now we need another to do the same.

[Red Sox 2]

Some interesting observations within this thread

Rhino, hopefully your opinion on Jamar at this time, similar to your current opinion of Rivers turns out to be just as incorrect.

A bit unfair and easy for me to say as I wasn't part of Demonland, probably might have had close to the same opinion!

Gotta live hindsight!

Where's Paul the Octopus when you need him......he can pick out the gems for us!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rhino, hopefully your opinion on Jamar at this time, similar to your current opinion of Rivers turns out to be just as incorrect.

A bit unfair and easy for me to say as I wasn't part of Demonland, probably might have had close to the same opinion!

Why should it? I watched Rivers over a number of years. I think his game has been consistent over that time and reasonable observations can be made. What do you expect to change with Rivers? Become faster or stronger??

It is intersting seeing those comments from back then. In early 2007, I had not seen enough of PJs play. 2005 was in his 1st year and he spent much of 2006 injured.

If you were care to look at my comments on PJ and Jamar from 2008 onwards, I had recognised that Jamar had the basics of ruckwork but did not get alot of the pill. PJ was a sucker punch. I was initially fooled by his mobility and little man skills without appreciating how average he was at ruckwork. For a big unit he has so little physical impact in ruck contests and at contested situations. He is also an ordinary mark above his shoulders.

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

PJ might very well be back this week. I think we might see him ruck a good patch of the game up against Bellchambers as both Jamar and Ryder go forward in an attempt to make an impact.